• Chloe Sagal, indie developer who's campaign to save her own life was cancelled has attempted suicide
    882 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;40629512]I'm guessing most people would agree that she probably shouldn't have lied, but it's difficult because, [B]had she told the truth, she probably would have raised much less.[/B] [/QUOTE] That is [I]exactly[/I] why it's a scam. It takes a special kind of person to outright lie, deliberately, to try to raise money under false pretenses. I don't care if the money is going to a new yacht, or for personal surgery, or to save your cancer-afflicted dying mother- if you lie to me about what you want money for, you aren't getting a single cent, and I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for any resulting legal charges. If she wanted non-critical sexual rearrangement surgery and wanted to make a fundraiser for it, more power to her. You know what, I'd probably have contributed. But to deliberately lie to raise more money doesn't just misrepresent her intentions, it reveals a lot about her character that I don't like and sure as hell wouldn't donate to. Dishonesty earns you no brownie points with me.
[QUOTE=gudman;40629671]I realise that. But I don't think it's as inevitable as dying of a disease (mixed it up again with "decease" in several posts, sorry).[/QUOTE] Reminds me of this: [IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/As8vbjyCMAAcGBb.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;40629778]Gender dysphoria can not be solved solely with therapy. It can help, but it's not a cure. The cure is to take the hormones so their brain is fed the right hormone (which has been shown to help in trans patients), and get Sex Reassignment Surgery to better match their identity.[/QUOTE] I know, and its a damn shame, are hormones very expensive?
[QUOTE=Van-man;40629788]Reminds me of this: [IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/As8vbjyCMAAcGBb.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] This is actually a really good cartoon for showing how people treat mental illnesses really. [QUOTE=Superkilll307;40629829]That's a very straw-man argument.[/QUOTE] And then there's this guy.
[QUOTE=Van-man;40629788]Reminds me of this: [IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/As8vbjyCMAAcGBb.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] That's a very straw-man argument.
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Ok, this is getting ridiculous if you disagree with me can you post a reason why instead of giving boxes as i find it quite frankly disrespectful. Actually i would even accept a disagree.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40629865]Ok, this is getting ridiculous if you disagree with me can you post a reason why instead of giving boxes as i find it quite frankly disrespectful. Actually i would even accept a disagree.[/QUOTE] Alright then, I disagree with the idea that it's a Strawman argument. People treat my depression with phrases nearly exactly like those all the time.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40629829]That's a very straw-man argument.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.depressionquest.com[/url] Depression is more severe than you think. I've been into one caused by the recession checking in the same moment I were gonna start on my own. You know those shitty days where you just wanna stay in bed until the next morning? Make every day such day, and then you'd start to understand it.
[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40629894]Alright then, I disagree with the idea that it's a Strawman argument. People treat my depression with phrases nearly exactly like those all the time.[/QUOTE] I sympathise i really do, but your letting what a couple of cunts say depict a whole load of people which is what makes it a straw-man.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40629804]I know, and its a damn shame, are hormones very expensive?[/QUOTE] Depends on the situation. I pay about a $30 co-pay charge every time I get mine (every month). Without co-pay I've heard prices nearing $50 and higher. The problem more or less lies in having the money to go to therapy and get referred, by the therapist, to get the treatment. Even with co-pay I had to spend above $250 for my visit there. That was all just to get hormones. And since SRS isn't covered, Male-To-Female SRS can range between $7,000 to even $25,000. And, sadly, a lot of people don't have that kind of money.
[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40629275]...Are you getting ANY of this? Did you miss the part where these rules were defined by a woman who literally wants trans women to all die?[/QUOTE] wait, what? Link?
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;40629619]But to many transgender people out there, SRS is a life saving operation. People don't realize how deep the depression is in the mind of a transgender person. And what doesn't help is a lack of support, especially by the very people who said they'd love you no matter what. Not being able to transition/feel comfortable in your own skin, especially due to financial reasons, leaves a lot of trans people fighting as hard as they can until they just can't anymore and give up. It's actually the reason you'll see a lot of transgirls doing sex work. Some don't want to, but they are forced to because nobody wants to hire transsexual people. Now, if Chloe did lie, then shame on her. But if she has been struggling for a long time trying to find a way to feel comfortable in her body then I completely sympathize with her.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but anyone who will claim that they're going to die and make up a long sob story to pluck at the heartstrings of potential donators, and then instead spend that money on something completely unrelated because the whole thing was made up to begin with can [b]fuck off[/b]. I have nothing against transgender people. I have a [i]serious[/i] thing against people who would try to emotionally manipulate other people into giving them money under false pretenses. It's a scam by definition, and a crass and emotionally manipulative one at that. It's not about the surgery. It's about honesty.
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;40629925]Depends on the situation. I pay about a $30 co-pay charge every time I get mine (every month). Without co-pay I've heard prices nearing $50 and higher. The problem more or less lies in having the money to go to therapy and get the referred, by the therapist, to get the treatment. Even with co-pay I had to spend above $250 for my visit there. That was all just to get hormones. And since SRS isn't covered, Male-To-Female SRS can range between $7,000 to even $25,000. And, sadly, a lot of people don't have that kind of money.[/QUOTE] I believe the Hormones should be covered and the therapy under insurance but, and you must forgive me for this, the surgery is simply not economical for a wide variety of reasons.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40628966]Let's be fair, if you judge the facts it doesn't weigh out in Chloe's favour, the evidence litterly keeps mounting that its more likely a scam than not.[/QUOTE] Sure, it does. But there's still nothing conclusive at the moment. I'll wait until there's actual conclusive evidence before jumping to conclusions myself. It seems like some of the people in this thread really want it to turn out she [I]is[/I] lying for whatever reason. And if it was for SRS then while it's not a necessary life-saving procedure like Chloe had said, it could still be considered life-saving if you consider the fact that it could very well have prevented a later suicide from depression over being transgender. Of course that doesn't mean it was okay for her to lie if that was the case, but it's understandable if you look at it from her point of view even if it was still a bad idea. [QUOTE=Solomon;40629317]That 'thousands of dollars' *were* going to go to a lifechanging/saving operation.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately it's not one the majority of people will accept as being potentially life-saving because they don't grasp the reason why it's life-saving since they've never been in such a situation themselves and likely never will be. In my experience the majority of people who aren't transgender, even those that are supportive of transgender people, really have trouble wrapping their minds around the subject terribly thoroughly. And, again in my experience, those who end up understanding it best are those who have accidentally hurt transpeople they care about so it sort of forces them to understand it. [QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;40629674]Hell, the GMF is a primary example. Mods and Golds both participating in raiding the transgender thread and then taking it to their forum just to mock us.[/QUOTE] This bullshit has made me seriously consider leaving this forum permanently on multiple occasions. It's fucking wrong.
[QUOTE=catbarf;40629932]I'm sorry, but anyone who will claim that they're going to die and make up a long sob story to pluck at the heartstrings of potential donators, and then instead spend that money on something completely unrelated because the whole thing was made up to begin with can [b]fuck off[/b]. I have nothing against transgender people. I have a [i]serious[/i] thing against people who would try to emotionally manipulate other people into giving them money under false pretenses. It's a scam by definition, and a crass and emotionally manipulative one at that. It's not about the surgery. It's about honesty.[/QUOTE] Even if she was honest, nothing was going to happen. No one is going to throw money at someone asking money for SRS. People will either ignore or just point and laugh. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she has been fighting for a while and this was her last attempt at trying to raise the money.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40629956]I believe the Hormones should be covered and the therapy under insurance but, and you must forgive me for this, the surgery is simply not economical for a wide variety of reasons.[/QUOTE] Transgender people who can't get the surgery have a 40% suicide rate That's not very economical [editline]13th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;40629981] I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she has been fighting for a while and this was her last attempt at trying to raise the money.[/QUOTE] She first tried raising the money through a game but everyone pirated it.
[QUOTE=Alice3173;40629968]Sure, it does. But there's still nothing conclusive at the moment. I'll wait until there's actual conclusive evidence before jumping to conclusions myself. It seems like some of the people in this thread really want it to turn out she [I]is[/I] lying for whatever reason. And if it was for SRS then while it's not a necessary life-saving procedure like Chloe had said, it could still be considered life-saving if you consider the fact that it could very well have prevented a later suicide from depression over being transgender. Of course that doesn't mean it was okay for her to lie if that was the case, but it's understandable if you look at it from her point of view even if it was still a bad idea. Unfortunately it's not one the majority of people will accept as being potentially life-saving because they don't grasp the reason why it's life-saving since they've never been in such a situation themselves and likely never will be. In my experience the majority of people who aren't transgender, even those that are supportive of transgender people, really have trouble wrapping their minds around the subject terribly thoroughly. And, again in my experience, those who end up understanding it best are those who have accidentally hurt transpeople they care about so it sort of forces them to understand it. This bullshit has made me seriously consider leaving this forum permanently on multiple occasions. It's fucking wrong.[/QUOTE] I would like to point out i think the reason most people hope she's lying is to make mob justice seem more respectable.
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;40629674]Considering how everyone's first course of action was to demean and insult her for being trans doesn't tell you anything? Sure, there are more accepting people now but it's still just as bad as the 1940s. In fact, it's actually a little worse because the fire is starting to die down for the gays and now dickfaces are setting their sights on us. Over the past year alone there have been threads on FP where there have been constant streams of shitposting against transsexuals just because someone posted an article relating to it. Hell, the GMF is a primary example. Mods and Golds both participating in raiding the transgender thread and then taking it to their forum just to mock us. Even with the drop in discrimination, transgender people are way behind gays in terms of progression. It's only now starting to become more vocal.[/QUOTE] In GMF's "defence" I'd say it's more because some transgenders in fp are nerdy and insecure which is actually a more popular reason for gmf flak.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40629956]I believe the Hormones should be covered and the therapy under insurance but, and you must forgive me for this, the surgery is simply not economical for a wide variety of reasons.[/QUOTE] Who cares if it's not economical for a wide variety of reasons? It should still be covered under those who require it in order to function properly in society. Only 1.5% of people in the United States have Crohn's disease. Better not cover that since it's not economical to the other 98.5%!
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40630014]I would like to point out i think the reason most people hope she's lying is to make mob justice seem more respectable.[/QUOTE] I can't really make a guess on it myself. I honestly don't understand why someone would want someone else to turn out to be lying just so they can put them down. It makes no sense at all to me.
[QUOTE=Falchion;40630023]In GMF's "defence" I'd say it's more because some transgenders in fp are nerdy and insecure which is actually a more popular reason for gmf flak.[/QUOTE] Woah depressed people are insecure? Who would have fucking thought. Better make their life worse then, right? There's no "defense" for their kinda shit.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;40629990]Transgender people who can't get the surgery have a 40% suicide rate That's not very economical [editline]13th May 2013[/editline] She first tried raising the money through a game but everyone pirated it.[/QUOTE] Its a shame truly, and I sympathise with the people who suffer from it, but alternative treatments are the only economical solution at this time, which is why Hormones and therapy should be covered but the surgery is very expensive from what iv seen and the reason it isn't funded is because under the belief that since its not imediatly life threatening the people can pay for it themselves if they save a skimp over time. Also where did you get that statistic?
[QUOTE=Falchion;40630023]In GMF's "defence" I'd say it's more because some transgenders in fp are nerdy and insecure which is actually a more popular reason for gmf flak.[/QUOTE] Being depressed usually makes people insecure. So GG at making shit worse, hope you feel good about yourself.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40630014]I would like to point out i think the reason most people hope she's lying is to make mob justice seem more respectable.[/QUOTE] Honestly the story of metal poisoning was full of holes from the start.
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;40630050]Woah depressed people are insecure? Who would have fucking thought. There's no "defense" for their kinda shit.[/QUOTE] man arent you frustrated in the butt even tho youve made kind of a roast thread yourself once
I think it's wise to just wait a few days to get the full story. I'm still flabbergasted from all this.
[QUOTE=Thlis;40630081]Honestly the story of metal poisoning was full of holes from the start.[/QUOTE] Swiss cheese my friend, Swiss cheese.
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;40629981]Even if she was honest, nothing was going to happen. No one is going to throw money at someone asking money for SRS. People will either ignore or just point and laugh. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she has been fighting for a while and this was her last attempt at trying to raise the money.[/QUOTE] I have a friend who came out as transgender last year. I helped find her a place to live and gave her enough to eat while she tried to figure out what she was going to do with her life after her family disowned her and kicked her out. I would [I]happily[/I] donate money to an accomplished game developer on hard times who needed a little bit of money for life-changing surgery. But the fact that she lied [I]specifically to get more money[/I] is what kills it for me. That's where it goes from noble intentions to an outright scam. If you [I]know[/I] you are lying [I]specifically[/I] because your made-up story will garner more money than the truth, you are deliberately scamming people. It doesn't matter how legitimate the real purpose for the fundraiser is or why you did it, it's still manipulative and it's still dishonest. I don't think dishonesty and emotional manipulation are ever justified for a fundraiser. If a charity organization said they needed money to stop imminent genocide of children in a distant African country and then turned and said 'hey sorry for lying guys, we made up the whole thing, the money is going to general charity within the US' the repercussions would be enormous. I really, really doubt people would accept 'well people don't usually donate much to charity so we kinda had to lie' as an excuse.
[QUOTE=Falchion;40630085]man arent you frustrated in the butt even tho youve made kind of a roast thread yourself once[/QUOTE] What, about Keychain? The guy is a son of a bitch who lies about being a girl on the internet to ruin people's lives and get Steam gifts. Besides, that was years ago.
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