Chloe Sagal, indie developer who's campaign to save her own life was cancelled has attempted suicide
882 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;40630780]Sometimes these things can go unnoticed, its actually not incredibly uncommon. Typically its a non-issue and often times people can continue to live with it entirely unhindered, but that is not always the case.[/QUOTE]
Of so surely she could sue, also i find it hard to believe such a surgery would cost so much, i mean to remove some metal seems a bit extreme.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40630982]Of so surely she could sue, also i find it hard to believe such a surgery would cost so much, i mean to remove some metal seems a bit extreme.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget it's the USA, surgeries are crazily expensive if your insurance doesn't pay and suing is even more.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/plQXOO9.png[/img]
[QUOTE=ShaunOfTheLive;40631237][img]http://i.imgur.com/plQXOO9.png[/img][/QUOTE]The post above the one you have highlighted actually shows that he clearly knew how to find her if he could get in touch with her school, so the whole "Chloe was an alias and she couldn't be found thing." collapses right there.
good riddance
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpost" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=victormeriqui_1;40631291]good riddance[/QUOTE]
What's your problem dude? :/
[QUOTE=victormeriqui_1;40631291]good riddance[/QUOTE]Regardless of whether she was telling the truth about why she needed the surgery or not, you are a horrible person for saying such a thing.
[QUOTE=victormeriqui_1;40631291]good riddance[/QUOTE]
oooooh so k00l and 3dgy~
It's a scam, he just wants to pocket the money.
[QUOTE=victormeriqui_1;40631423]It's a scam, he just wants to pocket the money.[/QUOTE]
That isn't a valid reason to joy over attempted suicide.
[QUOTE=Ban Camp;40631436]That isn't a valid reason to joy over attempted suicide.[/QUOTE]
It's basically "give me $$ or I'll kill myself", why should I have sympathy for him?
It's not ok to exploit people like this.
Boy this shit takes a lot of turns. I think I'm done following it.
[QUOTE=victormeriqui_1;40631459]It's basically "give me $$ or I'll kill myself", why should I have sympathy for him?
It's not ok to exploit people like this.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying you should be giving sympathy for her, I'm saying you [i]shouldn't cheer on attempted suicide[/i]
What she did was awful, yes, I agree, but that's kinda fucked up.
I read about this story this morning while on the way to a therapist to get the first of two required reports for my official name- and gender change.
I had a hard time trying not to suddenly burst into tears in a train full of people, I could perfectly relate to her problems since I was in similar situations in the past.
I'm actually really glad to hear that she is apparently in a hospital and alive, I hope she pulls through ok and won't attempt it again, life will get better as long as you give it a chance to!
[QUOTE=victormeriqui_1;40631459]It's basically "give me $$ or I'll kill myself", why should I have sympathy for him?
It's not ok to exploit people like this.[/QUOTE]
It was truly for SRS, which can be a very valid reason for maintaining mental stability, as self image issues can be a source of low self esteem, which leads to mental instability or depression. You have no clue about the truth of the matter, or the subject matter, and your over simplification is an insult to those which critique her.
every time I see "SRS" I automatically read it as "ShitRedditSays"
[URL="http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=57575452&postcount=471"]A bit more information (via NeoGAF):[/URL]
[QUOTE=Ohmwrecker]Allistair and I were the two people directly involved in a very similar situation a little over a month ago, but in that case the threats were being made privately over Skype. A Polygon editor was also involved, but to a lesser extent. I think one thing should be cleared up though, prior to the Indiegogo campaign neither Allistair nor I knew Chloe on a personal level at all. We both got to know Chloe when we were attempting to fact check essentially before driving our audience to help her campaign. I say this because this is the second time I've seen either he or I be referred to in a way that implies that we have a close relationship to Chloe. We were both extremely close to the situation, but I do not think either of us hit a point where we could have been called close friends of Chloe's.
I personally have struggled with the knowledge that I gained last month, as has Allistair. The cat is out of the bag now though, as he confirmed on Twitter. The Indiegogo campaign was not entirely genuine, it was actually quite deceptive. There was no metal poisoning, Chloe wanted a different kind of surgery that would help Chloe become the gender that she identified most with. We both figured this out, Destructoid was actually just about to publish a story on it. This is when Chloe went into a panic the first time.
Last time around it took many hours to finally determine who Chloe actually is, as it turned out Chloe Sagal is an alias. I live very close to Chloe, and her school, and it wasn't until the police were able to get in touch with a trusted professor that Chloe's real identity was located by police in Illinois. The resolution of the situation last time with authorities was that they would be doing a wellness check, but I got the impression that she told police that there was no threat, and they lacked the evidence to actually force her into a temporary involuntary psych eval.
Following all of this the small number of us that were involved discussed the situation further. Allistair had good intentions with his story, in that those that were donating didn't actually know the truth about what they were donating to and needed to know, but he chose to cancel it given the circumstances - specifically that Indiegogo gave refunds to everyone already, and that a life was potentially on the line. I still had concerns about the ethics of doing so, especially because there were indie developers who promised days of sales for Chloe's operation to address "metal poisoning", which left me to believe that there was still damage done. Despite any concerns, I agreed to keep the situation private, including the truth about the campaign, and the fact that Chloe Sagal is an alias.
This is what I was referring to on Reddit (if you saw my post) when I stated that Chloe was given a free pass. How many journalists would give someone that ran a bogus fundraiser an out like that, especially when consumers (and indie devs) were being deceived? Very few, and in this case, Chloe truly lucked out. Despite that, Chloe chose to not only make threats of suicide again, but this time try to actually do it via a Youtube video, and a Twitch.tv stream.
Given that very few people knew that Chloe Sagal was an alias, very few people that wanted to help last night were actually able to. When I personally spoke with the local police last night (again, I'm very local to her, and already had contacts that were aware of the situation last month) they seemed entirely unaware of the events unfolding on Twitch, Youtube, and elsewhere. Police were finally en-route to try to help the person behind the Chloe Sagal alias, but the concern was that it was too late. This is where I immediately regretted keeping the fact that Chloe Sagal is an alias secret, as there were people genuinely trying to help from around the world for at least 2 hours prior to my involvement.
At this point I do understand that Chloe is safe, but the truth needs to be out there. As Allistair finally admitted on Twitter Chloe Sagal's Indiegogo campaign was completely deceptive. Chloe Sagal is not even a real name, it is the name that Chloe identifies with. Beyond that I don't want to get into gender debates or anything like that, nor do I think it's appropriate to attack anyone for referring to Chloe as a she. [/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rk99tp[/url]
[quote]People on Twitter -- even some professionals that work for Gamasutra and other sites I respect -- are saying that me telling the truth would drive Chloe Sagal to suicide, but it's her attempted suicide that drove me to telling the truth.
Twitter is not a place to hold complicated discussions and this may be one of the most complicated discussions on one of the most complicated situations one can have. I write this in hopes that others link to it, so they can have clarity on the situation or at least my telling of it.
I am speaking about indie game designer Chloe Sagal and my decision to tell the truth about her and the IndieGoGo charity I reported on back in April: [url]http://www.destructoid.com/dying-indie-developer-needs-your-donations-to-survive-251111.phtml[/url]
I got in touch with Sagal shortly after the post, trying to get her feedback on why IndieGoGo initially shut down her charity (to which IndieGoGo did not directly respond to me about). She was very coy at first but she eventually opened up, as we talked videogames and general stuff in an honest, candid way; she considered me a friend and I soon realized this wasn't something for my website anymore.
By the time IndieGoGo shut her charity down a second time, she was much more friendly with me. She suggested suicide and I suggested we chat. So we did for over five hours. The truth came out: She did not require vital surgery but rather felt a very intense need for an operation that would let her complete her transformation into becoming a woman. I'm not sure if what I typed is entirely politically correct or not but I can in the very least say it is the truth.
But why share that truth in the first place?
Sharing it seemed very sensible initially, since she had just successfully scammed thousands of people -- a scam I took part in by posting about it which then got repost to Eurogamer and others. But this soon became complicated, as she threatened suicide if I told the truth (same applied to IndieGoGo, I imagine). I told her I wouldn't. I offered her other avenues to express herself, suggested other communities, lended her an ear, and even started the groundwork on having other successful members of the trans community speak to her and help her find the courage, as such a community doesn't exist in her rural town. Should she ever want to come out, I'd help her find the right platform for it (which wouldn't be Destructoid or any other game site).
And when she attempted suicide later that night, I spent two hours talking her out of it. I wasn't entirely convinced she really meant it, until the authorities came and put her in a hospital for a couple days. I spoke to her teacher -- one of the few (only) individuals that knew of her situation, as she presented as a he outside her home -- who was greatly concerned but had no obvious solution for her. After this, I decided to distance myself from Chloe who sent me emails thanking me for saving her. She also referred to me in postings online. This made me worried as things were growing more personal, so I ignored in fear of where things could lead if I continued communications. I wanted to help her tell her story, not become a part of it, especially after the concerning state of health she announced to me.
On May 5th, Chloe emailed me again saying she wrote a four-page apology that will "tell the full truth". This was to be posted on Eurogamer, she said. I became worried at this point as Robert Purchese at Eurogamer was the one writer who insisted on asking me questions about Chloe after others respected my request for questions to stop, since Chloe threatened suicide (a threat that some thought was a bluff). I'm sure Purchese meant well but I was worried, nonetheless. I feared that maybe this letter was forced, but once again, I didn't want to be a part of this narrative. I ignored the email and wished Chloe the best, curious to see what would happen. I anxiously awaited the Eurogamer post.
And then last night, I saw NeoGAF talking about Chloe again. This time, she made a suicide attempt on a Twitch.TV stream. I did not watch but I was told that she took pills and laid lifeless for 18 minutes before the stream cut off. I decided that was that and I would live knowing the full truth. I felt sad for Chloe but that this could become her future never escaped me as a possibility prior. I was prepared, even more so after personal tragedies that occurred in my life since meeting Chloe. Maybe this is why I always felt so invested in her improvement. I didn't want her to die.
However, when a NeoGAF member said she is alive, I felt an obligation to tell the truth. With IndieGoGo and Twitch TV community harmed by her actions, colleagues suggesting I tell the truth, and seeing NeoGAF's outpouring of grief over her false story, I decided it was time I told the truth. She was hurting everyone around her, virtually and physically, and I didn't want to be a part of that. She turned her back on me and others that were offering her a way out and covering up her scam (is there anything more unethical as a journalist?), only to attempt suicide.
As I suspected, I couldn't save her as she doesn't want anyone's help beyond surgery -- and if you know transgender persons, as I have through friends and family, you'll know that surgery isn't everything, there is a psychological transformation that needs to occur before that. But Chloe only wanted the surgery. Not the support or advice. I hope this has changed.
In recent weeks, some charities have been ignored by Destructoid and other sites due to Chloe and other scam charities. We don't have time to verify if a Boston charity is a scam or not. We can't put our credibility on the line, either. Chloe's actions contribute to poisoning the well, scaring off good intentioned people while bringing other scammers out of the woodwork.
When I asked Chloe if she felt guilty about any of her actions, she said no. She drove the conversation back to her stress disorders, which she claimed to be professionally diagnosed. Whatever the case, Chloe is a troubled person that I couldn't help but I feel an obligation to sharing the truth and furthering a greater good that would put an end to people building up her story falsely and damning IndieGoGo, who went above and beyond in not outing her. Seeing others connect the dots about Chloe on Reddit and NeoGAF made coming out with the truth easier for me, since I was only confirming what others already suspected. It was her attempted suicide that made it so easy, though.
I hate that I had to out her nature and troubles, but I hope you can see now that I couldn't not mention these things if I were to tell the truth. I didn't want to make up lies to protect her lies. That's not who I am as a professional or person. If she had listened to her teacher and not put herself in the public eye, this never would have happened. I hope someone somewhere learns something from this.
Now, Chloe is in some hospital. She will eventually know that we know she is a liar, a scammer, and transgender. I hate that the truth came out, and I hate even more that she would risk all of this after her friends, myself and her teacher told her not to. She just didn't trust that people would support her for who she is. I told her I do and I still do. Even after the awful things she has done -- scamming good people and broadcasting her suicide -- I have a place in my heart to help her.
If everyone so hellbent on harming me today could put as much effort in giving Chloe a support circle, she could really have a chance at having a happy life where she is honest about who she is to herself and everyone around her. It's unfortunate that so much harm, to herself and others, had to occur first, but the optimist in me likes to think it won't be in vein.
I can understand people who think I failed as a journalist by not saying the truth earlier (even if that meant her death) or by posting about Chloe's charity in the first place at all by not properly verifying her story (though I still hold IndieGoGo accountable for clearing her, initially; I won't easily trust the site again).
I can understand people who think I failed as a compassionate human by saying the truth even after she rejected help and attempted suicide. It's a person's decision to come out about such things, but she tied IndieGoGo, myself, and others to that decision in such a way that we couldn't easily escape the truth.
But I can't understand people who will put so much anger out at me before putting an equal amount of support for Chloe and others like her. I don't expect you to understand my unique predicament but I hope you can put some effort into understanding her's.
If you have further questions, you can email me at Allistair @ Destructoid.com (remember the days when people wrote hate mail instead of hate tweets?)
If you know someone who is depressed, suicidal, or in search of a support community, I recommend reaching out to Russ Pitt's Take This Project: [url]https://twitter.com/takethisproject[/url]
There are people who will want to know your story and support your life. You're probably pretty cool, even if you just don't know it. [/quote]
[QUOTE=Tamschi;40631072]Don't forget it's the USA, surgeries are crazily expensive if your insurance doesn't pay and suing is even more.[/QUOTE]
Makes me glad I live in the forth Reich.
I guess IndieGoGo wasn't wrong about her campaign, I also found it extremely suspicious. It's still sad she attempted suicide, and it's a good thing she didn't die.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;40631328]Regardless of whether she was telling the truth about why she needed the surgery or not, you are a horrible person for saying such a thing.[/QUOTE]
The fact that she tried to kill herself, regardless of whether the blackmail took place, or her reasons for the surgery - lead me to believe that she's seriously fucked up in any case.
[QUOTE=Onion836;40631919]I guess IndieGoGo wasn't wrong about her campaign, I also found it extremely suspicious. It's still sad she attempted suicide, and it's a good thing she didn't die.[/QUOTE]
Well her life is ruined now so it may have been better if she did.
Funny how quickly this thread turned around.
First people beating on anyone who didn't show sympathy and now everyones doubting the validity of the charity.
I didn't really have much interest when I first heard of this story and the kickstarter, but with a first glance it seemed kinda fishy. I didn't really give a shit but it seemed peculiar someone would try to crowd-fund for something as simple as a surgery.
Then queue in the indiegogo canceling it under suspicious circumstances. It seemed reasonable, it was against their ToS and it didn't really add up but everyone just went ballistic about it. Chloe could have started up a new one on a different website or something simple like paypal since it was so desperate, but I didn't hear anything about that.
Then people found out Chloe was trans and a shitload of flaming happened from all parts of the internet. Chloe threatens suicide and then [I]streams it[/I].
And now we are here where we are hearing rumours of blackmail sent by Chloe threatening suicide if they told the truth. If you ask my unprofessional opinion I would say that this is probably a scam. Whenever there is drama involved in the internet its shrouded in a cloud of dishonesty and uncertainty. But hey everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Lol and just as I post this, someone who actually knew what up ends up spilling the truth.
I don't see why people are rating me disagree when you consider a few facts of the matter.
First off she is a Pariah Class in that she is hated by a lot of people for simply being who she is.
Second, she is likely to be charged with Fraud and put in jail.
Three, she could have suffered permanent disability from her attempted suicide.
Fourth, she still suffers from depression.
Fifth, she scammed people and therefore even those who would support her being trans will hate her.
Sixth, her family and co-workers hate her.
So yeah, [B]if this is all true[/B] than it may have been because then she wouldn't have to deal with the consequences.
[QUOTE=zombojoe;40632277]Funny how quickly this thread turned around.
First people beating on anyone who didn't show sympathy and now everyones doubting the validity of the charity.
I didn't really have much interest when I first heard of this story and the kickstarter, but with a first glance it seemed kinda fishy. I didn't really give a shit but it seemed peculiar someone would try to crowd-fund for something as simple as a surgery.
Then queue in the indiegogo canceling it under suspicious circumstances. It seemed reasonable, it was against their ToS and it didn't really add up but everyone just went ballistic about it. Chloe could have started up a new one on a different website or something simple like paypal since it was so desperate, but I didn't hear anything about that.
Then people found out Chloe was trans and a shitload of flaming happened from all parts of the internet. Chloe threatens suicide and then [I]streams it[/I].
And now we are here where we are hearing rumours of blackmail sent by Chloe threatening suicide if they told the truth. If you ask my unprofessional opinion I would say that this is probably a scam. Whenever there is drama involved in the internet its shrouded in a cloud of dishonesty and uncertainty. But hey everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Lol and just as I post this, someone who actually knew what up ends up spilling the truth.[/QUOTE]
Regardless all that, nothing of this justifies [quote]
[IMG]http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6157/42227346.png[/IMG]
[/quote]
Even if people could know with certainty this was a scam, back then, this is not something to shoot around, and nobody could have definitely known, back then.
The bigger-ish point I made back there still stands. Even if she survived, and even if she's a liar and a fraud, there are patterns of behaviour we have seen through the community that should never be followed.
There are news on somebody killing themselves due to bullying, cybernetic or other, every now and then. Yeah, this person surely did break trust of many many people, and saddest is that she probably managed to undermine trust towards other people like her, but she still deserves empathy.
Furthermore, it's true that the fraud wasn't justified, but her being somebody who has to probably deal with depression and other problems, I can easily imagine she just felt like she has nothing to lose.
Wait so it was a scam? Not sure how I feel about that.
I'm still happy she's alive and she doesn't have death hanging over her head, but wow, it's not nice to be playing with people like that. I donated to the indiegogo even though I need the money but at the time I figured someone who is going to die without the money needs it more than me.
[QUOTE=Reshy;40632500]I don't see why people are rating me disagree when you consider a few facts of the matter.[/QUOTE]
Because they disagree with you, and don't think death would be better. The disagree rating isn't like the dumb rating, nobody's insulting you personally.
So then its as I said last thread, get all sides of the story first.
[QUOTE=Onion836;40632761]Because they disagree with you, and don't think death would be better. The disagree rating isn't like the dumb rating, nobody's insulting you personally.[/QUOTE]
I worded that poorly.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40630072]Its a shame truly, and I sympathise with the people who suffer from it, but alternative treatments are the only economical solution at this time, which is why Hormones and therapy should be covered but the surgery is very expensive from what iv seen and the reason it isn't funded is because under the belief that since its not imediatly life threatening the people can pay for it themselves if they save a skimp over time.
Also where did you get that statistic?[/QUOTE]
Therapy for decades costs more than a surgery
and [url=http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/staggering_rate_of_attempted_suicides_by_transgenders_highlights_injustices/]41% have attempted suicide[/url] (my word choice was poor, I fear I implied that 40% [i]die[/i])
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