• Chloe Sagal, indie developer who's campaign to save her own life was cancelled has attempted suicide
    882 replies, posted
So, people rating dumbs me and everyone else before for questioning the legitimacy of this "campaign", how does that feel now? IMO, IndieGogo is the hero in this story. Just imagine if everything would pass through.
Probably the same. I can sort of hear the boxes shuffling around, coming for us. [sp] It's already begun. Save yourself.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;40632998]So, people rating dumbs me and everyone else before for questioning the legitimacy of this "campaign", how does that feel now?[/QUOTE] I'd say a lot of us still think your post is stupid. Just because it turned out it was a lie doesn't mean your post was suddenly 100% factual. Your post was still poorly written.
[QUOTE=Alice3173;40633029]I'd say a lot of us still think your post is stupid. Just because it turned out it was a lie doesn't mean your post was suddenly 100% factual. Your post was still poorly written.[/QUOTE] So were your posts about me and others having no sympathy, because we're not so optimistic and tend to look on the realistic side of the story? This case is one of the reasons why in Russian forums people post medical papers and bills as evidence.
Everyone has some level of challenge in their life - something they want to change perhaps - it's part of being a human. Some people more than others - some people just want more money - other people feel they can't live without changing massive aspects of their life, such as their gender. And yeah, it makes a pretty huge difference and is very circumstantial. Lots of people face these challenges/changes by working in order to fund whatever changes they wish to make, putting up with them for the time being whilst coming to terms with them - or realize that they don't really matter that much after all. It adds 'color' to life to put it mildly and gives people something to do. Something's very different about her - I won't use the word 'wrong' as that implies there's an inherent, universal 'right' that it is possible to be - it's clear to see this considering she attempted suicide. You could have gauged this prior to her attempting suicide - the fact that she dropped the 'I'll commit suicide if...' clause so fluidly when faced with a challenge. Nothing at all to do with her gender preference. Now, things like this are tricky to deal with - it's not as straight cut as 'work, earn money and then get a gender transfer'. People get so hooked up in their thoughts and beliefs that they simply cannot function adequately whilst those thoughts are present. This can ever happen when you do actually make massive changes in your life, 'identity crisis' can kick in when you question your beliefs about yourself. It can also happen if you look too deeply into shit. Existential angst relating to death and existence, philosophical inquiry and questioning the concept of the 'self' can also lead down this path. Thus, a downward spiral into becoming a human who cannot function takes place. A human with a broken identity - no concrete beliefs to hold firm to, as they previously did. In this state, living itself becomes a nightmare. Even simple interaction with people becomes fucking difficult - the filters you see the world through become negative so now you feel people hate you simply because they're not smiling. The more the thought is attached to the occurrence, the more you pay attention to it - and very soon you think everyone hates you. That's social anxiety in a nutshell. Every morning waking up - feeling dread reverberate through your core, like a plunger attached to your diaphragm pulling it downwards. Breathing takes effort. Rigidity ensures. Depression. Anxiety. Human suffering, but not hunger, battle tanks or bombs. No, this is an internal war but is no less important or 'real' to the person going through it. Ultimately, getting out of this state is fucking difficult - it either involves the psychological route of cognitive behavioral therapy - changing the way you think about things - or the philosophical route (for things like existential angst) which involves coming to terms with concepts that most people don't ever consider in their lifetimes, and it by far and large a long, intensely painful and arduous process. It's difficult because, at it's core, it involves questioning the existence, function and validity of the very mind that kept you functioning adequately on autopilot for years and years. So yeah the issues some people face really aren't anything that can be accurately understood or treated by people who haven't gone through similar issues. I can also see why some people reach the 'end of the line' because they simply [i]think[/i] there is nowhere to go. I think current psychology is getting there regarding such issues - trying to fix issues rooted in thoughts (i.e. existential angst) with medication is, in my opinion, questionable, both in regards to their effectiveness and requirement to continue usage. I'd argue that most surface conditions & rationale (ie Chemical Imbalance) still depend on underlying (perhaps unconscious) causes rooted in the thought process - which can be uncovered pretty easily, although this can exacerbate such conditions and ignite self-inquiry.
Scope for as many big words and fanciful ideas you put into that post I don't feel like you have a strong grasp on the current state of mental health treatment. People thinking "you haven't been through this situation so you can't treat me" is a very distorted and problematic thought which is wrong. To be honest and not to diminish what people go through but it doesn't matter 1 shit what your situation is because there will always be something similar between the who saw combat, the woman who was raped, and the teenager struggling with self identity/esteem issues and that is distorted/unrealistic/and or irrational thoughts. That's how as a therapist I'm able to treat a wide variety of people with various illnesses and problems. Secondly, medication is not designed to treat anything more so than make symptoms more manageable. It's hard for some people to believe since alot of folks hold this romantic idea of thought disorders and mental issues being this complex web of intrigue that can only be helped by Socratic thinking and formal therapy but there in fact are chemical imbalances in our brain which factor into these disorders. THAT is why medication is used, to treat these imbalances to make symptoms more manageable.
Sometimes the symptoms are what's making the underlying issues untreatable though. So in some cases they can effectively be a "cure".
Can someone help clarify? Right now I've gathered that either she raised money for a life saving operation that was actually for an SRS, or people lied about the fundraiser being a fraud and the fundraiser was genuine, is there no proof or evidence either way? I have no idea what's going on
[QUOTE=Rammlied;40633785]Can someone help clarify? Right now I've gathered that either she raised money for a life saving operation that was actually for an SRS, or people lied about the fundraiser being a fraud and the fundraiser was genuine, is there no proof or evidence either way? I have no idea what's going on[/QUOTE] Two close contacts, which are members of the gaming industry confirmed that the fundraiser was a fraud, and was not for a life saving operation, but rather a SRS. The belief the fundraiser was a fraud originally was due to inconsistencies of the story and lack of proof of the condition.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;40633042]So were your posts about me and others having no sympathy, because we're not so optimistic and tend to look on the realistic side of the story? This case is one of the reasons why in Russian forums people post medical papers and bills as evidence.[/QUOTE] No your post was stupid because you don't know what lead and metal poisoning are and you acted like those are fake things that is wrong from a factual standpoint. you get dumbs for that you know
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;40631939]The fact that she tried to kill herself, regardless of whether the blackmail took place, or her reasons for the surgery - lead me to believe that she's seriously fucked up in any case.[/QUOTE] It's not uncommon that some trans people are desperate for what they want. A lot of us feel trapped for far too long and some just rather do something drastic or die when all else fails. Dysphoria is a fucking bitch, making you feel like everything is out to get you. That's why I said earlier that a lot of transgirls go into sex work. It's the only way for them to make money for treatment. For all we know Chloe was deathly afraid of sex work. She probably thought scamming a bunch of people out of money was the only thing to do. Once that failed she rather just end it all.
What I mean is how did the contacts confirm that it was a fraud
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;40633042]So were your posts about me and others having no sympathy, because we're not so optimistic and tend to look on the realistic side of the story? This case is one of the reasons why in Russian forums people post medical papers and bills as evidence.[/QUOTE] So a girl who's part of one of the most hated minorities that exists attempts to kill herself and all you care about is that she was deceitful in a fundraising campaign? Yeah it was wrong of her to do that but to have no sympathy at all is simply being callous.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40633950]So a girl who's part of one of the most hated minorities that exist attempts to kill herself and all you care about is that she was deceitful in a fundraising campaign? Yeah it was wrong of her to do that but to have no sympathy at all is simply being callous.[/QUOTE] I agree. It's not like she killed anyone, she asked for donations to pay for life-saving surgery. Well, to her this [I]was[/I] life-saving surgery. She shouldn't have lied about what it was, but she was obviously extremely desperate - people in that sort of state aren't going to make rational decisions. Her attempting suicide is still tragic, her parents are still terrible for disowning her, the health system is still bad for denying her treatment, and the people who bullied her are still assholes.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40628414]Allistair Pinsof from Destructoid has spoken out on Twitter and confirmed what many suspected of Sagal's suspended fundraiser: it was a cover up for a botched sex-change surgery. She also blackmailed him into not reveling this apparently with the threat of takeing her own life. [url]https://twitter.com/DtoidAllistair[/url][/QUOTE] and any care i had for your indiegogo campaign went byebye crowdfunding is not the place to fund any medical procedure at all
So is the current news still that she's recovering? Also, sorry for skipping out on the rest of the argument Thlis, I had work.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40628414]Allistair Pinsof from Destructoid has spoken out on Twitter and confirmed what many suspected of Sagal's suspended fundraiser: it was a cover up for a botched sex-change surgery. She also blackmailed him into not reveling this apparently with the threat of takeing her own life. [url]https://twitter.com/DtoidAllistair[/url][/QUOTE] makes sense tbh, heavy metal poisoning from a car accident sounded fishy why didn't she just say 'oh it's for SRS, here's why' - she'd probably have got a lot more sympathy than saying 'i'm dying I'M DYING' and then have it be revealed later that she was lying does not excuse the way that people acted towards her in any shape or form however
what wouldnt it just be easier to tell the truth? like, she would have gotten support either way...
[QUOTE=TheJoey;40634305]what wouldnt it just be easier to tell the truth? like, she would have gotten support either way...[/QUOTE] She would have assumed people didn't think her surgery wasn't that important. It was important to her and I will also assume she'll have been told multiple times she can live her life without that surgery. Fact is she only saw one way to live and since she couldn't achieve that we now have the events that recently occurred.
Some people tell a little white lie in the moment, but depending on the response wind up becoming over-committed to that lie and taking it a bit too far. By that stage, the justification is that sticking to that lie and letting everyone go on believing is easier and more emotionally acceptable than coming out with the truth at that stage, if they can pull it off. Seen it so many times before... Sometimes people just don't realise how to stop before crossing that line.
[QUOTE=Sobek-;40634798]Some people tell a little white lie in the moment, but depending on the response wind up becoming over-committed to that lie and taking it a bit too far. By that stage, the justification is that sticking to that lie and letting everyone go on believing is easier and more emotionally acceptable than coming out with the truth at that stage, if they can pull it off. Seen it so many times before... Sometimes people just don't realise how to stop before crossing that line.[/QUOTE] I've done it myself before, you don't fully realize or want to realize that you're going to make things much much worse when you're doing it. I don't know about other people who have done it but personally, I'd never want to do it again after it got resolved. Hopefully Chloe can recover mentally and physically from this and never let it get that far again.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;40633523]Scope for as many big words and fanciful ideas you put into that post I don't feel like you have a strong grasp on the current state of mental health treatment. People thinking "you haven't been through this situation so you can't treat me" is a very distorted and problematic thought which is wrong. To be honest and not to diminish what people go through but it doesn't matter 1 shit what your situation is because there will always be something similar between the who saw combat, the woman who was raped, and the teenager struggling with self identity/esteem issues and that is distorted/unrealistic/and or irrational thoughts. That's how as a therapist I'm able to treat a wide variety of people with various illnesses and problems. Secondly, medication is not designed to treat anything more so than make symptoms more manageable. It's hard for some people to believe since alot of folks hold this romantic idea of thought disorders and mental issues being this complex web of intrigue that can only be helped by Socratic thinking and formal therapy but there in fact are chemical imbalances in our brain which factor into these disorders. THAT is why medication is used, to treat these imbalances to make symptoms more manageable.[/QUOTE] The 'you can't treat me because you haven't been through this situation' applies mainly to the issues I covered in detail regarding the self & philosophical inquiry. Therapy relies on the reconstruction of a self image of some kind - if you've involved yourself in understanding the superficial nature of the self, to the point where your perception shifts regarding that, it seems extremely unlikely that it would be possible to reconstruct a faux-self to resume living as you did prior to the perception shift - and may in fact be counterproductive to do so. Regarding chemical imbalance - assuming a person has an imbalance of neurochemicals, responsible for feelings of 'happiness and wellbeing', how is it even possible to set a benchmark on a person's experience of 'happiness and wellbeing' - surely this is a self-defined operand - thus any disfunction regarding this would be a result of external influence acting on a person's expectation regarding 'level of happiness' that they should be experiencing. I think that can be attributed to the rise of mass media advertising in the last 50 years or so, portraying 'happiness' as being some kind of accessible constant - 'buy this car/holiday/coke/happy-meal, smile and be happy 24/7!' whilst treating other emotions as by-products that should be avoided at all costs.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;40634048]and any care i had for your indiegogo campaign went byebye crowdfunding is not the place to fund any medical procedure at all[/QUOTE] not telling the truth always fly back in your face at light speed, this is what we're seeing now. Crowdfunding is crowdfunding, you can fund whatever the fuck you want, people do it from their own will. In this case they've been lied to, which doesn't make it right. Aside of that medical procedures can be crowdfunded too AS LONG AS YOU'RE HONEST.
The title is misleading. Did she actually commit suicide? or attempt it and fail? Also I find this sad since I remember sending her a support message after seeing the harsh comments people were saying about her features.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;40634305]what wouldnt it just be easier to tell the truth? like, she would have gotten support either way...[/QUOTE] not really since most gamers are dumb, i mean look at this forum!!!
[QUOTE=Cairn Trenor;40635546]The title is misleading. Did she actually commit suicide? or attempt it and fail? Also I find this sad since I remember sending her a support message after seeing the harsh comments people were saying about her features.[/QUOTE] It originally said "committed", which is what everybody thought in the first half of the thread. Uncomfirmed sources later said that she was still alive and in hospital. (We haven't been able to find confirmed sources since Chloe Sagal is an alias and nobody will release her real name.)
[QUOTE=ShaunOfTheLive;40635575]It originally said "committed", which is what everybody thought in the first half of the thread. Uncomfirmed sources later said that she was still alive and in hospital. (We haven't been able to find confirmed sources since Chloe Sagal is an alias and nobody will release her real name.)[/QUOTE] I was able to track her location down to Hanover Park in Chicago via simple few Google search which lead me to a counselor named Angelica Lacalamita which 'Chole' may be a patient of hers.
what I dont understand is how people believed her original story. Metal poisoning from a car crash? Maybe im missing something here.
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;40636998]what I dont understand is how people believed her original story. Metal poisoning from a car crash? Maybe im missing something here.[/QUOTE] Persecution complex, people saw her as a shining example of someone being bullied into suicide. Therefore, she gets the benefit of the doubt and anyone saying otherwise is one of the bullies and/or insensitive. The idea that it was all a scam, like many other acts of fraud commonly committed every day, was not acceptable. Even now, with the truth out, this fraud is being excused by some. To those who would excuse it, just remember that EVERYONE who has ever done anything shitty has an excuse for it. Just because the fraud is committed by someone who fits a profile of a sympathetic outcast doesn't make that person any more trustworthy than anyone else.
Wait, this whole thing was a scam? If it is the OP should put it in the first page, or atleast something since I came here and read the OP, now I am confused about these "scams"
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