• Chloe Sagal, indie developer who's campaign to save her own life was cancelled has attempted suicide
    882 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Kirovich;40640575]Like I said, I don't condone scamming people out of cash and the blackmailing is also a very shitty thing to do, especially with your own life. These are things known as mistakes. [/QUOTE] Rubbing this shit off as a mere 'mistake' is just looking for excuses. Mistakes are questionable decisions or ones that you were actively/passively forced into, not simply bad ones. Mistakes make sense in the heat of the moment. Frankly, I'd like to see a situation where threatening with suicide if your shit is found out is even remotely justifiable.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;40640496]No, that is exactly justification. Or you still want to tell me blackmailing others with suicide is a victim of circumstances? Eat that bullshit yourself. If you are being sympathetic on something doesn't mean everyone around you who aren't are horrible monsters. Suck it up if you care about others not caring.[/QUOTE] What she did was and is wrong. That doesn't change a damn thing about that aspect of it
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;40640789]Rubbing this shit off as a mere 'mistake' is just looking for excuses. Mistakes are questionable decisions or ones that you were actively/passively forced into, not simply bad ones. Mistakes make sense in the heat of the moment. Frankly, I'd like to see a situation where threatening with suicide if your shit is found out is even remotely justifiable.[/QUOTE] Threatening with suicide is never justifiable. Perhaps my definition of Mistake is off by a few hundred miles. I'll take it for what it is and I'm glad you do the same.
[QUOTE=codemaster85;40638740]10/10 troll would be mad at again [sp] srsly kill yoself [/sp][/QUOTE] Telling someone to kill themself doesn't make you any better than the person you're flaming.
This whole thing is a mess. Really everybody is in the wrong here, but it seems like Chloe more so. If she would have been upfront about what she really needed the money for, she still would have found sympathy and likely donations.
[QUOTE=aznz888;40637557]I feel like if she was truthful with it in the first place and just asked for donations so she could fully become a woman would be much better than lying to the general public.[/QUOTE] She was trying to pass off as a female, basically announcing to the world that she was trans would get her lynched and have her games boycotted and basically ruined any chance of her being an indie developer. Considering how badly her stuff was pirated before anyone knew she was trans it's completely understandable to me for the deception. Albeit that doesn't make it any good but sometimes you're just not dealt a good hand in life so you have to bluff for all it's worth.
Wait, I'm pretty sure it was known that she was trans even back when the indiegogo was closed
Allistair of Destructoid.com has released a [url="http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rk99tp"]Statment[/url]. [quote="Allistair"] People on Twitter -- even some professionals that work for Gamasutra and other sites I respect -- are saying that me telling the truth would drive Chloe Sagal to suicide, but it's her attempted suicide that drove me to telling the truth. Twitter is not a place to hold complicated discussions and this may be one of the most complicated discussions on one of the most complicated situations one can have. I write this in hopes that others link to it, so they can have clarity on the situation or at least my telling of it. I am speaking about indie game designer Chloe Sagal and my decision to tell the truth about her and the IndieGoGo charity I reported on back in April: [url]http://www.destructoid.com/dying-indie-developer-needs-your-donations-to-survive-251111.phtml[/url] I got in touch with Sagal shortly after the post, trying to get her feedback on why IndieGoGo initially shut down her charity (to which IndieGoGo did not directly respond to me about). She was very coy at first but she eventually opened up, as we talked videogames and general stuff in an honest, candid way; she considered me a friend and I soon realized this wasn't something for my website anymore. By the time IndieGoGo shut her charity down a second time, she was much more friendly with me. She suggested suicide and I suggested we chat. So we did for over five hours. The truth came out: She did not require vital surgery but rather felt a very intense need for an operation that would let her complete her transformation into becoming a woman. I'm not sure if what I typed is entirely politically correct or not but I can in the very least say it is the truth. But why share that truth in the first place? Sharing it seemed very sensible initially, since she had just successfully scammed thousands of people -- a scam I took part in by posting about it which then got repost to Eurogamer and others. But this soon became complicated, as she threatened suicide if I told the truth (same applied to IndieGoGo, I imagine). I told her I wouldn't. I offered her other avenues to express herself, suggested other communities, lended her an ear, and even started the groundwork on having other successful members of the trans community speak to her and help her find the courage, as such a community doesn't exist in her rural town. Should she ever want to come out, I'd help her find the right platform for it (which wouldn't be Destructoid or any other game site). And when she attempted suicide later that night, I spent two hours talking her out of it. I wasn't entirely convinced she really meant it, until the authorities came and put her in a hospital for a couple days. I spoke to her teacher -- one of the few (only) individuals that knew of her situation, as she presented as a he outside her home -- who was greatly concerned but had no obvious solution for her. After this, I decided to distance myself from Chloe who sent me emails thanking me for saving her. She also referred to me in postings online. This made me worried as things were growing more personal, so I ignored in fear of where things could lead if I continued communications. I wanted to help her tell her story, not become a part of it, especially after the concerning state of health she announced to me. On May 5th, Chloe emailed me again saying she wrote a four-page apology that will "tell the full truth". This was to be posted on Eurogamer, she said. I became worried at this point as Robert Purchese at Eurogamer was the one writer who insisted on asking me questions about Chloe after others respected my request for questions to stop, since Chloe threatened suicide (a threat that some thought was a bluff). I'm sure Purchese meant well but I was worried, nonetheless. I feared that maybe this letter was forced, but once again, I didn't want to be a part of this narrative. I ignored the email and wished Chloe the best, curious to see what would happen. I anxiously awaited the Eurogamer post. And then last night, I saw NeoGAF talking about Chloe again. This time, she made a suicide attempt on a Twitch.TV stream. I did not watch but I was told that she took pills and laid lifeless for 18 minutes before the stream cut off. I decided that was that and I would live knowing the full truth. I felt sad for Chloe but that this could become her future never escaped me as a possibility prior. I was prepared, even more so after personal tragedies that occurred in my life since meeting Chloe. Maybe this is why I always felt so invested in her improvement. I didn't want her to die. However, when a NeoGAF member said she is alive, I felt an obligation to tell the truth. With IndieGoGo and Twitch TV community harmed by her actions, colleagues suggesting I tell the truth, and seeing NeoGAF's outpouring of grief over her false story, I decided it was time I told the truth. She was hurting everyone around her, virtually and physically, and I didn't want to be a part of that. She turned her back on me and others that were offering her a way out and covering up her scam (is there anything more unethical as a journalist?), only to attempt suicide. As I suspected, I couldn't save her as she doesn't want anyone's help beyond surgery -- and if you know transgender persons, as I have through friends and family, you'll know that surgery isn't everything, there is a psychological transformation that needs to occur before that. But Chloe only wanted the surgery. Not the support or advice. I hope this has changed. In recent weeks, some charities have been ignored by Destructoid and other sites due to Chloe and other scam charities. We don't have time to verify if a Boston charity is a scam or not. We can't put our credibility on the line, either. Chloe's actions contribute to poisoning the well, scaring off good intentioned people while bringing other scammers out of the woodwork. When I asked Chloe if she felt guilty about any of her actions, she said no. She drove the conversation back to her stress disorders, which she claimed to be professionally diagnosed. Whatever the case, Chloe is a troubled person that I couldn't help but I feel an obligation to sharing the truth and furthering a greater good that would put an end to people building up her story falsely and damning IndieGoGo, who went above and beyond in not outing her. Seeing others connect the dots about Chloe on Reddit and NeoGAF made coming out with the truth easier for me, since I was only confirming what others already suspected. It was her attempted suicide that made it so easy, though. I hate that I had to out her nature and troubles, but I hope you can see now that I couldn't not mention these things if I were to tell the truth. I didn't want to make up lies to protect her lies. That's not who I am as a professional or person. If she had listened to her teacher and not put herself in the public eye, this never would have happened. I hope someone somewhere learns something from this. Now, Chloe is in some hospital. She will eventually know that we know she is a liar, a scammer, and transgender. I hate that the truth came out, and I hate even more that she would risk all of this after her friends, myself and her teacher told her not to. She just didn't trust that people would support her for who she is. I told her I do and I still do. Even after the awful things she has done -- scamming good people and broadcasting her suicide -- I have a place in my heart to help her. If everyone so hellbent on harming me today could put as much effort in giving Chloe a support circle, she could really have a chance at having a happy life where she is honest about who she is to herself and everyone around her. It's unfortunate that so much harm, to herself and others, had to occur first, but the optimist in me likes to think it won't be in vein. I can understand people who think I failed as a journalist by not saying the truth earlier (even if that meant her death) or by posting about Chloe's charity in the first place at all by not properly verifying her story (though I still hold IndieGoGo accountable for clearing her, initially; I won't easily trust the site again). I can understand people who think I failed as a compassionate human by saying the truth even after she rejected help and attempted suicide. It's a person's decision to come out about such things, but she tied IndieGoGo, myself, and others to that decision in such a way that we couldn't easily escape the truth. But I can't understand people who will put so much anger out at me before putting an equal amount of support for Chloe and others like her. I don't expect you to understand my unique predicament but I hope you can put some effort into understanding her's. If you have further questions, you can email me at Allistair @ Destructoid.com (remember the days when people wrote hate mail instead of hate tweets?) If you know someone who is depressed, suicidal, or in search of a support community, I recommend reaching out to Russ Pitt's Take This Project: [url]https://twitter.com/takethisproject[/url] There are people who will want to know your story and support your life. You're probably pretty cool, even if you just don't know it. [/quote] This confirms a lot of thoughts what people suspected.
[QUOTE=Fangz;40642065]and it looks like she has been overwhelmed by guilt too.[/QUOTE] Um... [quote]When I asked Chloe if she felt guilty about any of her actions, she said no.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;40642226]Um...[/QUOTE] I snipped that out, I thought I read she was flipflopping between guilt and no guilt but I think I read too much between the lines.
ok snip whatever people are sheeps
[QUOTE=Maruhai;40642438]That's just bullshit, I went through a suicide attempt[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Maruhai;40642438]but for god's sake, why would you even consider suicide?[/QUOTE] People like you piss me off, doubly so for being so damn hypocritical.
I learned that it's dumb. And it is dumb.
[QUOTE=Maruhai;40642438]ok snip whatever people are sheeps[/QUOTE] Yes, people sure are sheep when they disagree with you, but when they fall in line with you, what a group of free thinkers eh? Your point of view is dumb because you fail to have any empathy or sympathy having been in a somewhat similar place you don't even believe in your own point of view enough to let it stand to criticism so why do you bother [editline]14th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Maruhai;40642537]I learned that it's dumb. And it is dumb.[/QUOTE] So what? A person has a right to their own life.
I don't even see why "transgender" is important. This is somebody who lied and scammed to get money, used threatened suicide as emotional blackmail, and then abused people's empathy to harm other people and companies, such as indiegogo, and her parents. Then Chloe "attempted suicide" by practically setting up a scenario where somebody could easily help here by calling a local ambulance or the such. Despite this, people are getting pissed over polital correctness because of Chloe being referred to as "he" (seriously, how else do you explain it is a biological man wanting a sex change?). No matter what way you look at it, Chloe is a downright evil, manipulative bitch.
[QUOTE=Tommyx50;40643817]I don't even see why "transgender" is important. This is somebody who lied and scammed to get money, used threatened suicide as emotional blackmail, and then abused people's empathy to harm other people and companies, such as indiegogo, and her parents. Then Chloe "attempted suicide" by practically setting up a scenario where somebody could easily help here by calling a local ambulance or the such. Despite this, people are getting pissed over polital correctness because of Chloe being referred to as "he" (seriously, how else do you explain it is a biological man wanting a sex change?). No matter what way you look at it, Chloe is a downright evil, manipulative bitch.[/QUOTE] you call them a she out of respect for their wishes and because it fits their mental gender profile better how you are in the mind is as important as your body no, i'd say evil is the wrong way to put it and is actually basically missing the point to put it that way.
[QUOTE=Tommyx50;40643817]I don't even see why "transgender" is important. This is somebody who lied and scammed to get money, used threatened suicide as emotional blackmail, and then abused people's empathy to harm other people and companies, such as indiegogo, and her parents. Then Chloe "attempted suicide" by practically setting up a scenario where somebody could easily help here by calling a local ambulance or the such. Despite this, people are getting pissed over polital correctness because of Chloe being referred to as "he" (seriously, how else do you explain it is a biological man wanting a sex change?). No matter what way you look at it, Chloe is a downright evil, manipulative bitch.[/QUOTE] facepunch, as much as it likes to pretend to be, is not very rational when it comes to issues like transgender-ness. as you can tell by the overflow of dumb ratings on perfectly logical and well stated posts that have nothing dumb about them. i like to view dumb ratings on threads like this as a self rate unless the post is legitimately stupid. obviously "chloe" is not thinking clearly, so I don't understand why anyone in their right mind would believe his current status as being a female in a man's body. even by disregarding this and believing that he truly feels himself to be female, he's still a dude regardless until he gets a sex change operation (and even then his definition of being a woman is still a bit shaky). [editline]14th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40643956]you call them a she out of respect for their wishes and because it fits their mental gender profile better how you are in the mind is as important as your body [/QUOTE] yes because clearly his mind is perfectly sane at the moment i think i'll give respect to someone when they dont try to blackmail innocent people or steal money from unsuspecting donators
[QUOTE=Pat4ever;40643972][B]facepunch, as much as it likes to pretend to be, is not very rational when it comes to issues like transgender-ness. [/B][/QUOTE] Is Pat4ever admitting that all LGBT should be treated equally? [QUOTE=Pat4ever;40643972]Obviously "chloe" is not thinking clearly,[B] so I don't understand why anyone in their right mind would believe his current status as being a female in a man's body. even by disregarding this and believing that he truly feels himself to be female, he's still a dude regardless until he gets a sex change operation (and even then his definition of being a woman is still a bit shaky).[/B][/QUOTE] Nope, looks like he was just trying to justify his bigotry.
[QUOTE=Fangz;40644021]Is Pat4ever admitting that all LGBT should be treated equally? [/quote] tell me where i've ever said the LGBT community should not be treated fairly. i completely support their actions and whatever endeavours they want to do. what I don't support, however, are psychopathic liars and their irrational decisions. but go ahead and defend the point of view of a suicidal liar, see where it gets you.
[QUOTE=Pat4ever;40644062]tell me where i've ever said the LGBT community should not be treated fairly. i completely support their actions and whatever endeavours they want to do. [/QUOTE] Right here: [QUOTE=Pat4ever;40637167](I refuse to call him a she) [/QUOTE] And Here: [QUOTE=Pat4ever;40643972][B] so I don't understand why anyone in their right mind would believe his current status as being a female in a man's body. even by disregarding this and believing that he truly feels himself to be female, he's still a dude regardless until he gets a sex change operation (and even then his definition of being a woman is still a bit shaky).[/B][/QUOTE] I see those as clear attacks against the transsexual community in general.
[QUOTE=Pat4ever;40643972]facepunch, as much as it likes to pretend to be, is not very rational when it comes to issues like transgender-ness. as you can tell by the overflow of dumb ratings on perfectly logical and well stated posts that have nothing dumb about them. i like to view dumb ratings on threads like this as a self rate unless the post is legitimately stupid. obviously "chloe" is not thinking clearly, so I don't understand why anyone in their right mind would believe his current status as being a female in a man's body. even by disregarding this and believing that he truly feels himself to be female, he's still a dude regardless until he gets a sex change operation (and even then his definition of being a woman is still a bit shaky). [editline]14th May 2013[/editline] yes because clearly his mind is perfectly sane at the moment i think i'll give respect to someone when they dont try to blackmail innocent people or steal money from unsuspecting donators[/QUOTE] I don't think you have the understanding, or the ability to understand this persons mental state well enough to say things like this I do not think you understand the condition of trans people well enough to say one more uneducated stupid word. your understanding of any level of the human mind and what it associates with is proving to tenuous at best.
[QUOTE=Fangz;40644091]Right here: I see those as clear attacks against the transsexual community in general.[/QUOTE] yes because one psychopathic, blackmailing liar represents the entire transgender community and my views on this one individual represent my views on everyone to put it blanky, if you have a penis you're a dude. pretty simple logic to go by; i refuse to call him a she because he doesnt have a clear mind on what he's doing at the moment and shouldn't have a trusted word on anything. i'm perfectly fine with calling transgender people the pronoun they wish to be called with and have done it on many occasions without problems.
[QUOTE=Pat4ever;40644062]tell me where i've ever said the LGBT community should not be treated fairly. i completely support their actions and whatever endeavours they want to do. what I don't support, however, are psychopathic liars and their irrational decisions. but go ahead and defend the point of view of a suicidal liar, see where it gets you.[/QUOTE] Yet you're attacking Trans people as a whole and acting like you're clever about it Sorry but you're being an idiot and a hypocrite if you do support LGBT(T stands for transgender) causes. [editline]14th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Pat4ever;40644192]yes because one psychopathic, blackmailing liar represents the entire transgender community and my views on this one individual represent my views on everyone to put it blanky, if you have a penis you're a dude. pretty simple logic to go by; i refuse to call him a she because he doesnt have a clear mind on what he's doing at the moment and shouldn't have a trusted word on anything. i'm perfectly fine with calling transgender people the pronoun they wish to be called with and have done it on many occasions without problems.[/QUOTE] Oh, so this persons mental state about how they feel and their inability to relate to their own body aren't connected and they don't deserve respect, even on an article basis, because of this? does this not scream circular logic to you or are you out of the loop?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40644166]I don't think you have the understanding, or the ability to understand this persons mental state well enough to say things like this I do not think you understand the condition of trans people well enough to say one more uneducated stupid word. your understanding of any level of the human mind and what it associates with is proving to tenuous at best.[/QUOTE] oh heavens forgive me, "chloe" is OBVIOUSLY sane at the moment and we should trust his judgement on everything! lets support everything he does, like blackmailing journalists and lying to attract donators! oh wait
[QUOTE]so I don't understand why anyone in their right mind would believe his current status as being a female in a man's body. even by disregarding this and believing that he truly feels himself to be female, he's still a dude regardless until he gets a sex change operation (and even then his definition of being a woman is still a bit shaky).[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]to put it blanky, if you have a penis you're a dude. pretty simple logic to go by; i refuse to call him a she because he doesnt have a clear mind on what he's doing at the moment and shouldn't have a trusted word on anything. i'm perfectly fine with calling transgender people the pronoun they wish to be called with and have done it on many occasions without problems.[/QUOTE] pretty damn disrespectful and stupid, not to mention hypocritical if you do at all support any LGB[b]T[/b] causes. [editline]14th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Pat4ever;40644216]oh heavens forgive me, "chloe" is OBVIOUSLY sane at the moment and we should trust his judgement on everything! lets support everything he does, like blackmailing journalists and lying to attract donators! oh wait[/QUOTE] You clearly referred to all Trans people. You clearly disregarded her mental state at any point in time before this incident to attack her and her supposed mental state You clearly have made a judgement and are set on handing that shit out from your high horse. Leave.
[QUOTE=Pat4ever;40644216]oh heavens forgive me, "chloe" is OBVIOUSLY sane at the moment and we should trust his judgement on everything! lets support everything he does, like blackmailing journalists and lying to attract donators! oh wait[/QUOTE] This isn't about Chloe anymore, this is about your bigotry towards the transsexual community.
Yo Pat4ever, I know someone with a backhoe, sounds like you could use it to help yourself with digging that massive hole you're in deeper.
[QUOTE=Pat4ever;40644062]tell me where i've ever said the LGBT community should not be treated fairly. i completely support their actions and whatever endeavours they want to do. what I don't support, however, are psychopathic liars and their irrational decisions. but go ahead and defend the point of view of a suicidal liar, see where it gets you.[/QUOTE] You're so edgy if you got down on all fours you could be mistaken for a table.
yeah I think I'm done here, you all seem to think "chloe" is irrational because of his transgender status and blankly defend him simply because of this without considering the fact that he's a [B]institutionalized liar who tried to commit suicide[/B] on the other hand, I believe that his transgender condition is influenced to his current irrationality. this does not mean that all transgender people are irrational, nor does it mean that he cannot truly believe himself to be female. I simply do not trust his judgement right now (and you shouldn't either) and thus will be labeling him for what he is, rather than what he wants to be (which is, at the moment, dead). maybe in time, when his mind is not so clouded, he can correctly make a judgement for himself and view himself whatever gender he wishes. feel free to misinterpret my views as bigotry while I'm gone, however. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting/Transphobia - Not the first time" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Pat4ever;40644192]yes because one psychopathic, blackmailing liar represents the entire transgender community and my views on this one individual represent my views on everyone to put it blanky, if you have a penis you're a dude. pretty simple logic to go by; i refuse to call him a she because he doesnt have a clear mind on what he's doing at the moment and shouldn't have a trusted word on anything. i'm perfectly fine with calling transgender people the pronoun they wish to be called with and have done it on many occasions without problems.[/QUOTE] You've already dug yourself a massive hole, I suggest you not go any further.
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