• Chloe Sagal, indie developer who's campaign to save her own life was cancelled has attempted suicide
    882 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Megafan;40648822]In my defense I would just like to say that I do not make fun of transpeople in either little circles or large circles.[/QUOTE] But in general, most are indifferent or on the side of making fun of transgender people. Just click the ratings list in the OP and look under Funny. [QUOTE=The golden;40648881]Once you stop treating them like shit, most of them are no different than any other person. There are the assholes and the sweethearts just like very other group of people.[/QUOTE] Transgender people, at least the ones I know, tend to be incredibly accepting of everyone else and are mostly nice people. But some blow off that shit as "lol guys stop being so uptight they're joking". It's retarded, that kind of shit will kill someone here someday.
[QUOTE=Megafan;40648822]In my defense I would just like to say that I do not make fun of transpeople in either little circles or large circles.[/QUOTE] Hey Megafan, how is retard killer getting alt accounts? I thought registration was blocked.
I'm beginning find it difficult to sympathize with her to a degree, to be honest. Certainly the nasty comments and supposed family troubles (Are those actually true? With the shrapnel story apparently being a lie, I don't know what I should think. I'll go re-read the articles and edit this post as necessary.) were beyond unnecessary, and there are certainly some underlying mental health problems for her, but to lie and expect anything different is also silly. This whole situation is just not okay, I think.
[QUOTE=Reshy;40648949]Hey Megafan, how is retard killer getting alt accounts? I thought registration was blocked.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure, but we're looking into it.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40644484][t]http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff186/baldrybaldry/268124_185050874885810_100697356654496_479415_3813061_n.jpg[/t] Pat's logic: this is a dude.[/QUOTE] Well if that is in fact a male transexual then he would be right in thinking that. I don't want to be the one to defending him here but he's correct in saying that people are what they biologically are, not what they want to be. I honestly don't understand how anyone can argue otherwise. If I'm born male with a penis, broad shoulders, big hands and X chromosomes then all the surgery I can buy isn't going to change that thats what I was born into the world as. It doesn't seem logical to me that people can change their appearence and say "I'm this now." If you want to look and be like a woman because you feel thats what you should be, then thats cool. I just have a hard time swallowing the sentiment that a male post-op transexual is now female because they inverted his penis and sculpted his cheekbones.
[QUOTE=The golden;40648881]Lol have you seen the way the internet (or even FP specifically) treats them? Transsexualism is a concept that FP still cannot accept without thinking its some kind of bad joke. Once you stop treating them like shit, most of them are no different than any other person. There are the assholes and the sweethearts just like very other group of people.[/QUOTE] I don't care if your trans in FP, it changes nothing but, in RL, the trans minority [B]sticks the fuck out[/B]. But you'll never notice the majority of trans because they actually conceal it [I]good[/I] so you don't know they are trans. The minority though, they give terrible light to transexuals. [B]Way [/B]worse than any minority IMHO. and this is why people dislike transexuality. If only they knew the truth.
[QUOTE=The golden;40649111]Isn't that the case of the minority of pretty much any group of people? You know, "vocal minority" and all that.[/QUOTE] Yes, but with trans, they are visual and vocal, not just vocal. And that was my point. This is where i think people stereotype trans. Because with the wrong trans person doing the change the wrong way, you end up with bad results. Otherwise, if its a good change, you won't even know.
[QUOTE=PCGamesN;40244990][url=http://www.pcgamesn.com/indie/indiegogo-cancels-indie-dev-s-successful-campaign-save-her-own-life-citing-suspicious-activity]Indiegogo cancels indie dev’s successful campaign to save her own life, [highlight]citing "suspicious activity"[/highlight][/url][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=don818;40248626]I heard from another site that she was transgender, and the reason she couldn't pay for the surgery on her own entirely was because [highlight]her insurance told her to fuck off because she was trans[/highlight], and was disowned by friends and family. [...][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ForDaNords;40622815]She committed suicide because some guys from Reddit [highlight]started doubting her for no reason at all other than to sound smart,[/highlight] and then a bunch of people listened to the people from Reddit. Eventually, they started flaming on her, and Indiegogo shut her campaign down. After that, the word got out that she was transgender and then it spiraled out of control. Not to mention, her family abused her and said that they hope she dies from this accident.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=TheHydra;40622897]she was raising money for life-saving surgery because [highlight]people pirated the game that was going to pay for it[/highlight][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Zeke129;40622966]Fuck you Indiegogo, people voluntarily donated money to a person they felt worthy and gave this woman hope and then you [highlight]snatched it all back after it reached its target.[/highlight] Hope this is a black mark on the site forever.[/QUOTE] ... There is no justice in this existence. Karma does not exist. It can't exist.
[QUOTE=J!NX;40649131]Yes, but with trans, they are visual and vocal, not just vocal. And that was my point. This is where i think people stereotype trans. Because with the wrong trans person doing the change the wrong way, you end up with bad results. Otherwise, if its a good change, you won't even know.[/QUOTE] That might be a reason but it's not [I]the[/I] reason why transphobia is still such a widespread problem. Seriously, it's the same root cause as homophobia or any other bullshit irrational hatred towards a group, they just find them "icky". Even here in Facepunch a lot of people have straight up said that trans people are disgusting and/or mentally ill. That is not a vocal minority altering people's perception of trans people, it's just their own preconceptions.
". . .people are what they biologically are, not what they want to be." "If I'm born male with a penis, broad shoulders, big hands and X chromosomes then all the surgery I can buy isn't going to change that thats what I was born into the world as." For the love of god, someone please explain why these statements are so wrong. Its blowing my mind right now.
[QUOTE=RosettaStoned;40649197]". . .people are what they biologically are, not what they want to be." "If I'm born male with a penis, broad shoulders, big hands and X chromosomes then all the surgery I can buy isn't going to change that thats what I was born into the world as." For the love of god, someone please explain why these statements are so wrong. Its blowing my mind right now.[/QUOTE] it's not wrong, it just doesn't matter a single bit
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;40649184]That might be a reason but it's not [I]the[/I] reason why transphobia is still such a widespread problem. Seriously, it's the same root cause as homophobia or any other bullshit irrational hatred towards a group, they just find them "icky". Even here in Facepunch a lot of people have straight up said that trans people are disgusting and/or mentally ill. That is not a vocal minority altering people's perception of trans people, it's just their own preconceptions.[/QUOTE] oh well then its simply that they are completely ignorant.
[QUOTE=RosettaStoned;40649197]". . .people are what they biologically are, not what they want to be."[/QUOTE] It's not a matter of wanting to be. It's a matter of they are, but feel they are in the wrong body. [QUOTE]"If I'm born male with a penis, broad shoulders, big hands and X chromosomes then all the surgery I can buy isn't going to change that thats what I was born into the world as."[/QUOTE] Except you are just talking physically. Transgenderism isn't based on your sex, it's about your gender. How you are as a person, not what you look like. [QUOTE]For the love of god, someone please explain why these statements are so wrong. Its blowing my mind right now.[/QUOTE] Done.
[QUOTE=Juniez;40649199]it's not wrong, it just doesn't matter a single bit[/QUOTE] Yes it really does. If you're not female then you're not female. If you feel you should have been born female and want to articifially create that life for yourself then theres no problem with that. It starts getting hairy for me when people want you to genuinely consider that person the opposite sex that they are. I'll certainly do it out of courtesy, but folks will honestly tell you that a male is in fact biologically female because they feel that way in their brain. I don't get that.
[QUOTE=RosettaStoned;40649229]Yes it really does. If you're not female then you're not female. If you feel you should have been born female and want to articifially create that life for yourself then theres no problem with that. It starts getting hairy for me when people want you to genuinely consider that person the opposite sex that they are. [B]I'll certainly do it out of courtesy, but folks will honestly tell you that a male is in fact biologically female because they feel that way in their brain. I don't get that.[/B][/QUOTE] IMHO I think that is totally way out there, they aren't biologically that way, just, they are mentally, by title and by everything else. Saying they are biologically female is total bullshit, but they [B]are[/B] female, and thats just the end of that. It isn't about biology. Michael Jackson is white, genetically, he is not.
[QUOTE=RosettaStoned;40649229]I'll certainly do it out of courtesy, but folks will honestly tell you that a male is in fact biologically female because they feel that way in their brain. I don't get that.[/QUOTE] Because sex and gender are completely separate things. You keep using "biologically this and that" when there is more to it than just the appearance and biology of a person.
[QUOTE=Tomo Takino;40649266]Because sex and gender are completely separate things. You keep using "biologically this and that" when [b]there is more to it than just the[/b] appearance and [b]biology of a person[/b].[/QUOTE] I suppose thats where our disagreement is rooted.
[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;40648526]Even so, don't generalize away the mods' interest like that. The very first post on this page had a ban for transphobia:[/QUOTE] I've only seen megafan ban for it tbh, never seen another mod get anywhere near it.
[QUOTE=RosettaStoned;40649313]I suppose thats where our disagreement is rooted.[/QUOTE] Apparently. Assuming appearance is what makes a person male or female is wrong, and a large part of the discrimination against transgender people is based on people thinking the same thing as you do.
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;40649177]... There is no justice in this existence. Karma does not exist. It can't exist.[/QUOTE] Did you see the post I made a few pages back? She confessed that the surgery wasn't to cure 'metal poisoning'.
[QUOTE=Tomo Takino;40649351]Apparently. Assuming appearance is what makes a person male or female is wrong, and a large part of the discrimination against transgender people is based on people thinking the same thing as you do.[/QUOTE] It's not appearance that matters to me, its a person's biological makeup (Fuck redundancy). Even with supplimented hormones, I don't feel you can simply change who you are that way.
[QUOTE=RosettaStoned;40649465]It's not appearance that matters to me, its a person's biological makeup (Fuck redundancy). Even with supplimented hormones, I don't feel you can simply change who you are that way. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/96KzAOI.jpg[/IMG] Do you consider this man an actual cat?[/QUOTE] I would call him a pretty shitty example. I'm sorry but the difference is just far, far too massive. That's as comparing homosexuals to polygamy or bestiality. He's not a cat, and he identifies as the cat [B]man[/B], even if he called himself a full cat, thats far fetched. Sex and gender, hell even [B]race[/B] is considered reasonable because females and males, and blacks and whites, are not THAT different from one another.
[QUOTE=J!NX;40649486]I would call him a pretty shitty example. I'm sorry but the difference is just far, far too massive. That's as comparing homosexuals to polygamy or bestiality. He's not a cat, and he identifies as the cat [B]man[/B], even if he called himself a full cat, thats far fetched. Sex and gender, hell even [B]race[/B] is considered reasonable because females and males, and blacks and whites, are not THAT different from one another.[/QUOTE] Yeah you're right, forget about that part.
[QUOTE=RosettaStoned;40649465]It's not appearance that matters to me, its a person's biological makeup (Fuck redundancy). Even with supplimented hormones, I don't feel you can simply change who you are that way.[/QUOTE] Cat isn't a possible gender for humans, what an awful example. And no, you can't change yourself biologically being a male or female. The hormones change up some functions of your body to give you a feel for the body of the gender you desire, and the surgery is designed to give you semi functional body parts or remove those that exist in favor of the opposite. You're wrong to assume biology is the way to determine gender. Biology determines sex, and gives you corresponding body parts for male or female. It has little if anything to determine who is feminine or masculine because gender is based on things like how you act, how you feel mentally and physically. Those 3, not body parts, determine what a person identifies as a gender. I believe it's also possible to identify as both genders, or none. But I don't really know much about that.
Should we bring furries into this riveting conversation about what's normal and what's bizarre?
[QUOTE=Hullu V3;40649543]Should we bring furries into this riveting conversation about what's normal and what's bizarre?[/QUOTE] I considered it. :v:
[QUOTE=Anthracite;40648516]TBH most trans members on FP are a pain to deal with, there's only a tiny few that are good to talk with.[/QUOTE] no they really aren't. if anything most of the trans members here on FP have been some of the nicest people i've met on any forum. [QUOTE=Megafan;40648822]In my defense I would just like to say that I do not make fun of transpeople in either little circles or large circles.[/QUOTE] yea you're one of the really good ones. always makes me happy to see you in a thread about transpeople. :) [editline]15th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Crimor;40649337]I've only seen megafan ban for it tbh, never seen another mod get anywhere near it.[/QUOTE] i remember one of the mods banning a gold member who was shitposting in the trans thread and then going in the thread for that circle of people who make fun of transpeople and saying "i only did it so they'd stop causing so much drama fuckin trannies lmao" or something along those lines. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Leaking GMF content" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Cone;40645842]fyi there's no distinction between an MTF transsexual and an infertile woman, so unless you're going to be saying that women who can't give birth are physiologically identical to men you don't have much of a point here[/QUOTE] There's a giant fuckload of distinction, especially genetically. [QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;40646126]You can say that Chloe is male, but as a woman she gets the feminine pronouns, not the masculine ones. They're gendered, not sexed pronouns, and it's more polite anyways to use the pronouns the other person wants (within reason). She's still a woman before, after, and during the procedure, but not female until after it.[/QUOTE] Ok, sorry. I will keep this in mind. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40645715]how long is it going to take you to end up saying offensive shit about trans? apparently not long at all[/QUOTE] I'm not trying to be offensive. I'm trying to say Chloe was scamming, intending for a sex change operation. I am saying that talking in a biological, and genetical sense, Chloe was male and wanting money for a sex change operation. Edit: I'm talking about Chloe. Chloe is a male, who scammed, lied and threatened to get money, so that she could get a sex change operation. I'm not saying that she can't identify as a women, or that she can't use feminine pronouns. I'm saying, talking in a purely biological scientific sense, Chloe is a male wanting to undergo sex change surgery.
[QUOTE=J!NX;40649253]IMHO I think that is totally way out there, they aren't biologically that way, just, they are mentally, by title and by everything else. Saying they are biologically female is total bullshit, but they [B]are[/B] female, and thats just the end of that. It isn't about biology. Michael Jackson is white, genetically, he is not.[/QUOTE] This. There are a number of differences between trans and biological females such as their [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_sex-determination_system"]chromosomes[/URL] but the majority of them are either minor or aren't an issue at all, since their identity is what matters here.
[QUOTE=J!NX;40649253]Michael Jackson is white, genetically, he is not.[/QUOTE] Genetically, Michael Jackson is [b]dead[/b]
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.