Remember that Cleveland kid that got shot for pulling a BB gun on cops? His family is suing.
165 replies, posted
[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;46668395]a 12 year old kid got shot
let's all talk about how he deserved to die[/QUOTE]
saying the kid "masqueraded" himself unwillingly into a possible threat =/= saying the kid deserved to die because he had what looked like a gun
damn, its like you're just reading what you want to read
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46668360]The thing that always seems fishy about this is, how come white mass murderers often seem to be apprehended safely, whilst black criminals (or innocents) almost invariably die?[/QUOTE]
Cite examples please. I've seen a few people cite the Aurora shooter James Holmes. But the thing with that is, when James exited the theater and saw police, [U]he surrendered[/U]. There was no waving a gun at them, there was no sketchy movement, no lunging at them, he just surrendered peacefully. [B]That[/B] is why he was arrested, not because of race, but because he did not attempt to challenge the responding officers.
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/26/tamir-rice-video-shows-co_n_6227552.html[/url]
[QUOTE]The police officer who fatally shot a 12-year-old boy carrying a pellet gun [B]fired within 1½ to 2 seconds of pulling up in his cruiser[/B], police said Wednesday. During those few moments, he [I]ordered the youngster three times to put up his hands, they said[/I][/QUOTE]
The reason why I am furious at all the dumb ratings in this thread. There is no way they can even order him to put up his hands in 1 1/2 - 2 seconds unless they are a fucking auctioneer, and even then the sound of the car stopping, doors opening, and gunfire would drown it out. They just pulled up, fired, and are trying to cover their asses by saying they gave him a chance.
They did [I]not[/I] give him a chance.
[QUOTE=draugur;46669027]1. People conceal firearms in their cars all the time.
2. Any traffic stop it should be common sense to keep your hands in plain sight and shit. For all the cops knows the guy could have been a big time cop killer or something. We live in America, where police getting fucking killed is an occupational hazard. It is more dangerous to be a cop in Detroit than it is to be a soldier in Afghanistan. Think about that for a second and then realize why a lot of cops are quick to act as they do. Not to say that it's the best course of action, in the end someone died and that is not the best outcome, but it's an understandable one.[/QUOTE]
For all they know they could be a law abiding member of the public.
Statistically they're a law abiding member of the public.
[QUOTE=DuCT;46670532]The real kicker is who the lawyer the family hired. I was able to listen to some of the press conference today. The hired the same lawyer that worked for Trayvon Martins family, as well as Michael Browns. So it's not a good record, and the "evil white cop" angle is getting pushed hard.[/QUOTE]
Well, whether they win or not, someone's getting rich.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;46668972]The cop obviously saw him reaching for a gun in the car and fired at him - he was scared for his life when that black man who was black and threatening started aggressively reaching for the AK-47 glock he had under his seat.[/QUOTE]
At this point we need a version of that "ironic shitposting" picture that says "shitposting about race is still shitposting".
[QUOTE=piddlezmcfuz;46670631][url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/26/tamir-rice-video-shows-co_n_6227552.html[/url]
The reason why I am furious at all the dumb ratings in this thread. There is no way they can even order him to put up his hands in 1 1/2 - 2 seconds unless they are a fucking auctioneer, and even then the sound of the car stopping, doors opening, and gunfire would drown it out. They just pulled up, fired, and are trying to cover their asses by saying they gave him a chance.
They did [I]not[/I] give him a chance.[/QUOTE]
That's not even all of it. They handcuffed his 14 year old sister (had a source, can't dig it up on mobile right now,) and stood around with their thumbs up their asses while Tamir, still ALIVE, was not being attended to medically. He might have been able to survive.
[QUOTE=EpikEnvy2.0;46670612]i like how people are trying to make this is a race issue when it's really not, at all
the cops weren't highfiving and posting 'LOL GOT ME A DARKIE!!" on facebook after they shot the kid
He didn't have the tip on the toy that is a screaming "THIS IS NOT REAL" to officers and even then did not cooperate. It's a tragedy to the family and I doubt the police are happy to know they killed a 12 year old, but in this situation everything the police did was warranted.[/QUOTE]
so why did they start shooting the moment they arrived? when did he have time to cooperate?
[editline]8th December 2014[/editline]
i'm clearly not familiar enough with police protocol, is it standard procedure to immediately gun down anyone who even vaguely looks like a threat the moment you arrive? i wasn't aware we were living in the wild west.
Don't worry guys the white men of facepunch know that cops can't be racist
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;46671479]Don't worry guys the white men of facepunch know that cops can't be racist[/QUOTE]
Ironic coming from a white guy
[QUOTE=Megadave;46668520]If I even shot a deer I'd have remorse for it for weeks. Don't see how anyone can go without feeling remorse for killing a 12 year old, no matter how justified. Even if he was about to set off a nuke I'd still have nightmares about it.[/QUOTE]
what makes you think the officer that shot him doesn't feel the slightest remorse even if his shooting was justified?
[QUOTE=M.Ciaster;46668662]you were six and they gave you a 30-06 without any prior training? christ, man[/QUOTE]
My grandfather was/is a moron.
[editline]9th December 2014[/editline]
also fractured a bone in my shoulder on impact.
BUT NAH YER FINE BOY, QUITCHER BITCHIN'
[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;46668395]a 12 year old kid got shot
let's all talk about how he deserved to die[/QUOTE]
Putting words in people's mouths is the dumbest way to argue your point.
Also you're wrong anyway.
[editline]a[/editline]
I mean yeah, it's not a good thing that he got shot, but when a cop tells you to drop your fucking firearm, you should probably do it.
[editline]8th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;46671479]Don't worry guys the white men of facepunch know that cops can't be racist[/QUOTE]
Don't worry, the apologists of it know that they can't be uncorrupted, either.
[QUOTE=gottifour;46669908]this is obviously some fucking retard who should not have been a cop and was eager to shoot somebody/too anxious to be a cop
this should not represent a majority of the cops[/QUOTE]
I been telling people who bring this up that this cop is an idiot and this was probably his first time ever seeing and reacting to what's known as an affirmative action. Then the cherry on top is he shoots once more even though his hands are up and his palms are even open. With CNN absolutely on the war path about police I'm surprised this isn't their flagship video, or that they've even shown it. It's clearly a shooting totally in the wrong
As for the 12 year old incident, it was a justified shooting, but it also sort of wasn't. When police get a call about someone with a gun, they don't drive up right next to them like that. It's careless, it isn't safe for the gunman or the officers, it's just not a wise thing to do. So I'm thinking some information got made up or incorrectly passed to the officers from the dispatcher and 'Guy With a Gun' became 'Active Shooter' resulting in a much more aggressive approach
[QUOTE=TheTalon;46672456]I been telling people who bring this up that this cop is an idiot and this was probably his first time ever seeing and reacting to what's known as an affirmative action. Then the cherry on top is he shoots once more even though his hands are up and his palms are even open. With CNN absolutely on the war path about police I'm surprised this isn't their flagship video, or that they've even shown it. It's clearly a shooting totally in the wrong
As for the 12 year old incident, it was a justified shooting, but it also sort of wasn't. When police get a call about someone with a gun, they don't drive up right next to them like that. It's careless, it isn't safe for the gunman or the officers, it's just not a wise thing to do. So I'm thinking some information got made up or incorrectly passed to the officers from the dispatcher and 'Guy With a Gun' became 'Active Shooter' resulting in a much more aggressive approach[/QUOTE]
an officer-related shooting where the officer is clearly in the wrong and punished accordingly is nowhere near as money-making as ambiguous cases they can make multiple articles about.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;46669620]I'm going to get flak for this but this whole incident is entirely the fault of parents who bought their kid a potentially dangerous airsoft pistol and left him unsupervised. They aren't "toys" and shouldn't be treated as such. The fact that the orange tip was removed is even more damning.
I feel bad for everyone involved of course, he obviously didn't deserve to die, the parents didn't deserve to bury their child, and some poor cop doesn't deserve to have this hanging over him for the rest of his life but this is what happens when you aren't safe.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, buying airsoft stuff that looks like the real deal should have a lower age limit IMO. 15, 16 years maybe? At this point you can at least sorta assume that people who buy these won't go waving 'em around in public willy-nilly (or at least they shouldn't, and if they do and get themselves shot it's gonna be their own damn fault - at this age you're 100% guaranteed to understand not to wave gun looking shit at cops unless you're a certified dumbass), and it does seem to be the age when people start seriously getting into airsoft anyways from what I've seen.
Clear plastic bodies/obviously unreal, brightly colored stuff shouldn't have a limit, obv - let the kids have their fun with less risk of catching a real bullet
At the end of the day, it's honestly not really an issue you can solve with laws - it all comes down to parenting and training - but obviously we can't depend on parents to do their job properly 100% of the time (I mean, shit, we're all human, so that goes without saying), so we gotta at least try the other option.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46668592]I didn't know they released the dash cam footage yet, can you link me to it or the official report that shows this?[/QUOTE]This isn't dash cam footage but it does seem to show what you read.
[video=youtube;7Z8qNUWekWE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z8qNUWekWE[/video]
The person who called 9/11 for this said he thought it was a toy gun, but the officers made no effort whatsoever to confirm that. He was alone in that park, there was nobody in the immediate vicinity he was a threat to except perhaps himself.
Rather than stop at a safe distance and draw their weapons as you would expect police to do, the officers drove up to within five feet of him. They made themselves the only ones in danger in that situation giving them "no choice" but to kill. They shot him in 2 seconds of arriving on the scene, no, "drop your weapon" or "put your hands up". There was no time for him to comply.
The cops basically did a drive by on the kid. I don't see them at any point asking him to put the gun down, and I don't see him waving it erratically at the cops. I don't know what the fuck you guys are smoking.
The cops didn't even put in the slightest amount of effort to try and retrain him peacefully.
P.S. Heres the info about the cop being deemed unfit for duty.
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...n_6264992.html[/url]
[QUOTE]"I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct the deficiencies,” Polak wrote.[/QUOTE]
Also just for fun this image.
[IMG]http://www.motherjones.com/files/Racism_online_630_Armed2.jpeg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Darth Hater;46672943]This isn't dash cam footage but it does seem to show what you read.
[video=youtube;7Z8qNUWekWE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z8qNUWekWE[/video]
The person who called 9/11 for this said he thought it was a toy gun, but the officers made no effort whatsoever to confirm that. He was alone in that park, there was nobody in the immediate vicinity he was a threat to except perhaps himself.
Rather than stop at a safe distance and draw their weapons as you would expect police to do, the officers drove up to within five feet of him. They made themselves the only ones in danger in that situation giving them "no choice" but to kill. They shot him in 2 seconds of arriving on the scene, no, "drop your weapon" or "put your hands up". There was no time for him to comply.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how people think that warnings of sub-2 seconds are fair whatsoever. Everyone agreed when I said that the guy in the other video was opened fire on far too quickly, and now everybody disagrees in this one because he had a toy gun?
There was nobody remotely near him.
He was given less than 2 seconds to react.
He didn't point the gun at the officers.
He's twelve years old and not well-versed in how to act with the police.
The [I]person who called it in[/I] said that it was a toy gun.
These cops are undeniably trigger-happy and should be barred from serving in any police department in the country. I can understand why they reacted the way they did, but when they knew it was a toy gun there's zero excuse for this. Yes, the kid should have dropped the gun, I totally agree, but he didn't. A twelve year old not following exact procedure when faced with a cop shouldn't be killed. That was a drive-by - they didn't call down the kid or try to give him enough time to even drop the gun, they pulled up and started firing.
This is disgusting and the fact that people are angry that the parents are suing for the loss of their child is even more saddening. I doubt it was racially-motivated, but it is more evidence of poorly trained trigger-happy police officers reacting aggressively in situations where no aggression is needed. If they had pulled up, had their gun in their hands, pointed it at the kid and said "drop the weapon," he would almost certainly still be alive. But they didn't do that - they barely gave him enough time to react to their commands.
[QUOTE=Richoxen;46673236]The cops basically did a drive by on the kid. I don't see them at any point asking him to put the gun down, and I don't see him waving it erratically at the cops. I don't know what the fuck you guys are smoking.
The cops didn't even put in the slightest amount of effort to try and retrain him peacefully.
[/QUOTE]
What the fuck video were you watching? Because that shitty grainy security cam isn't telling anyone shit.
[QUOTE=urbanmonkey;46673297]What the fuck video were you watching? Because that shitty grainy security cam isn't telling anyone shit.[/QUOTE]
You can see them pull up and immediately open fire within a few seconds. That's not how they should react, especially when they're already aware that the gun was a toy as reported by the caller. Unless the dispatcher fucked up and didn't pass that information along, they're clearly in the wrong.
[QUOTE=urbanmonkey;46673297]What the fuck video were you watching? Because that shitty grainy security cam isn't telling anyone shit.[/QUOTE]
i dunno that video shows pretty clearly that they drove straight up to him then basically shot him immediately
[QUOTE=urbanmonkey;46673297]What the fuck video were you watching? Because that shitty grainy security cam isn't telling anyone shit.[/QUOTE]
Are you... are you serious? It doesn't take a camera with 4k resolution sticking out of the cops anus to tell that they pulled up directly next to him and then got out and shot him within literally 2 seconds.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;46673292]I don't see how people think that warnings of sub-2 seconds are fair whatsoever. Everyone agreed when I said that the guy in the other video was opened fire on far too quickly, and now everybody disagrees in this one because he had a toy gun?
There was nobody remotely near him.
He was given less than 2 seconds to react.
He didn't point the gun at the officers.
He's twelve years old and not well-versed in how to act with the police.
The [I]person who called it in[/I] said that it was a toy gun.
These cops are undeniably trigger-happy and should be barred from serving in any police department in the country. I can understand why they reacted the way they did, but when they knew it was a toy gun there's zero excuse for this. Yes, the kid should have dropped the gun, I totally agree, but he didn't. A twelve year old not following exact procedure when faced with a cop shouldn't be killed. That was a drive-by - they didn't call down the kid or try to give him enough time to even drop the gun, they pulled up and started firing.
This is disgusting and the fact that people are angry that the parents are suing for the loss of their child is even more saddening. I doubt it was racially-motivated, but it is more evidence of poorly trained trigger-happy police officers reacting aggressively in situations where no aggression is needed. If they had pulled up, had their gun in their hands, pointed it at the kid and said "drop the weapon," he would almost certainly still be alive. But they didn't do that - they barely gave him enough time to react to their commands.[/QUOTE]
holy shit you don't have to be a fucking rocket surgeon to know not to point guns at people. the only reason this happened is because he was standing out there with a realistic looking fucking gun. would you like the cop to just call his shit on it being fake? what if it wasn't? "cops unfit for duty because stupid motherfucker walked up to kid blatantly brandishing gun, stupid pig gets fucking shot"
a gun is a gun, it's not meant for kids but if you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes
[QUOTE=.Isak.;46673305]You can see them pull up and immediately open fire within a few seconds. That's not how they should react, especially when they're already aware that the gun was a toy as reported by the caller. Unless the dispatcher fucked up and didn't pass that information along, they're clearly in the wrong.[/QUOTE]
even if the ywere told it's a real gun that's stupid as hell to do, drive straight up to someone with a gun thus scaring the shit out of them and making them react erratically?
[QUOTE=Richoxen;46673236]The cops basically did a drive by on the kid. I don't see them at any point asking him to put the gun down, and I don't see him waving it erratically at the cops. I don't know what the fuck you guys are smoking.
The cops didn't even put in the slightest amount of effort to try and retrain him peacefully.
P.S. Heres the info about the cop being deemed unfit for duty.
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...n_6264992.html[/url]
.[/QUOTE]
Being unfit for policing in one city does not mean you are unfit for policing everywhere. If you read into that, you'll see that he had some shit going on in his life.
Maybe he got his shit in a line and got an attitude adjustment. For christ sakes man its obvious you've never worked a job remotely close to law enforcement.
[QUOTE=urbanmonkey;46673310]holy shit you don't have to be a fucking rocket surgeon to know not to point guns at people. the only reason this happened is because he was standing out there with a realistic looking fucking gun. would you like the cop to just call his shit on it being fake? what if it wasn't? "cops unfit for duty because stupid motherfucker walked up to kid blatantly brandishing gun, stupid pig gets fucking shot"
a gun is a gun, it's not meant for kids but if you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes[/QUOTE]
or they could do what is normally done in situations where someone is armed, stand off and order them to surrender?
[QUOTE=.Isak.;46673305]You can see them pull up and immediately open fire within a few seconds. That's not how they should react, especially when they're already aware that the gun was a toy as reported by the caller. Unless the dispatcher fucked up and didn't pass that information along, they're clearly in the wrong.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;46673307]i dunno that video shows pretty clearly that they drove straight up to him then basically shot him immediately[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Richoxen;46673308]Are you... are you serious? It doesn't take a camera with 4k resolution sticking out of the cops anus to tell that they pulled up directly next to him and then got out and shot him within literally 2 seconds.[/QUOTE]
No no no I get that he shot him pretty quickly, my point is that the whole "you didn't see him lift his shirt and waive the gun around" is debatable because the fps of the video shows about 3 or 4 frames of the whole altercation. it only takes a fraction of a second to make a sudden movement, especially when cops are rolling up on what they think is a gun. that's why they say don't make sudden movements around dogs and such either, in tense situations it take 0.1 seconds to do something to provoke a reaction. you can't argue that a clearer, smoother video wouldn't make the whole situation appear differently.
[QUOTE=urbanmonkey;46673310]holy shit you don't have to be a fucking rocket surgeon to know not to point guns at people. the only reason this happened is because he was standing out there with a realistic looking fucking gun. would you like the cop to just call his shit on it being fake? what if it wasn't? "cops unfit for duty because stupid motherfucker walked up to kid blatantly brandishing gun, stupid pig gets fucking shot"
a gun is a gun, it's not meant for kids but if you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes[/QUOTE]
But apparently you do have to be a rocket scientist to understand that he's fucking 12 years old and probably never understood the severity of never messing with a gun even if it's fake. And that he was probably playing with it in the park because, you know, he's fucking 12 and a boy playing pretend??
If you're telling me that you never played with a fake gun as a kid, even your fingers then you're fucking lying.
[QUOTE=urbanmonkey;46673310]holy shit you don't have to be a fucking rocket surgeon to know not to point guns at people. the only reason this happened is because he was standing out there with a realistic looking fucking gun. would you like the cop to just call his shit on it being fake? what if it wasn't? "cops unfit for duty because stupid motherfucker walked up to kid blatantly brandishing gun, stupid pig gets fucking shot"
a gun is a gun, it's not meant for kids but if you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes[/QUOTE]
A BB gun is not a gun. It's a toy. They knew it was a toy. It was called in as a toy gun. A twelve-year-old boy might not have reacted exactly how the police wanted him to - he's twelve. Kids that age usually don't consider the consequences of their actions. If he knew it was a toy gun, it's unlikely that he thought that other people would think it was a real gun.
I don't think the cops should have just "walked right on up to him." I think that they shouldn't have immediately fucking opened fire. They could have tried, you know, not pulling right up to the kid. Maybe stop a couple meters away, tell the kid to drop the weapon behind the cover of their vehicle, and then fire if he starts pointing the weapon at them. No - they pulled up feet from him (which is idiotic no matter how you try to phrase it), and then opened fire. That is pure negligence. They were responding to the call - they knew the kid was in the area. Why would they pull right up to him if they thought he had a gun? The caller even said it was a toy gun. It's idiotic and unnecessarily aggressive behavior no matter how you try to frame it.
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