• How do you fight possible false rape reports? Get your MRA buddies and spam actual false rape report
    291 replies, posted
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43238139]If Facepunch spent as much time and energy raising awareness of legitimate womens issues as they do bitching about Tumblr Feminists(tm) we might actually make a little bit of progress.[/QUOTE] honestly though, when we're not bickering about others we're usually just bickering amongst ourselves
the really stupid thing was that none of the reports can or would have resulted in criminal charges - there wasn't any threat of people being falsely accused and then victimized for it this is the same school that got in massive shit for not doing anything about sexual assaults, so they attempt to do something and MRAs shit all over it what if a [i]man[/i] was trying to anonymously report an assault while these assholes were spamming the form? way to help men guys, glad my rights are being defended by these assclowns
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;43237374]If men want to get rid of stuff like the fact that men have a harder time when it comes to custody battles then they should join the feminist movement, which is the movement which seeks to eradicate all of the institutionalized perceptions about "men's roles" and "women's roles" that underlie those sorts of legal biases. The concept that men need some sort of "counter-movement" to fight back against a [i]movement which seeks total equality of the sexes[/i] just shows to go how fuckin ignorant people are about the goals of feminism.[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape]You see the thing is, in the real world people are judged by their actions, not their words[/url].
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;43237374]If men want to get rid of stuff like the fact that men have a harder time when it comes to custody battles[/QUOTE] when men actually fight for custody they don't have a harder time, it's about 50/50, this is of course ignoring the vast majority of cases which result in joint custody when a man is denied custody it's almost always because he didn't contest the mother's petition for sole custody
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;43237700]I don't feel threatened by those women so I don't care??? [/QUOTE] You are literally saying that you don't care because it doesn't affect you.
[QUOTE=lazyguy;43238685]You are literally saying that you don't care because it doesn't affect you.[/QUOTE] I'm saying I don't care because it doesn't affect anybody. It's the same reason I don't care about the ongoing war between North Dakota and South Dakota; it's a problem I just made up and which doesn't actually affect the lives of anyone.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;43238617]the really stupid thing was that none of the reports can or would have resulted in criminal charges - there wasn't any threat of people being falsely accused and then victimized for it this is the same school that got in massive shit for not doing anything about sexual assaults, so they attempt to do something and MRAs shit all over it what if a [i]man[/i] was trying to anonymously report an assault while these assholes were spamming the form? way to help men guys, glad my rights are being defended by these assclowns[/QUOTE] I don't think making reporting rape more dangerous for the victim is a good way of handling it. As I said earlier in this thread, the form doesn't actually result in charges or any disciplinary action, they just go and talk to the accused. Which means if that rape accusation is true, the rapist probably knows who sent it [i]and will have more incentive to hurt/silence them[/i] especially if they told them to keep their mouth shut. This needs to be a police matter, where charges can properly be filed and the accused can be arrested to protect the victim. The form could be a good idea if it is reworked to allow a private meeting with the victim and a member of the staff, where they can determine the best way to attempt to press charges. But the campus itself should not be playing investigator here(Unless they convince the local precinct to have an officer dedicated to this), it's not what they were trained for and they can get victims hurt.
not big on feminism but this is hugely shitty and should hopefully result in a few arrests
[QUOTE=TheHydra;43234205]you don't draw attention to a problem by causing it.[/QUOTE] this man would disagree with you [img]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/CRIME/09/24/anthrax.ivins/art.ivins.cnn.jpg[/img] :v:
[QUOTE=Cabbage;43240160]not big on equality[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;43240719][/QUOTE] I've pointed this out in a dozen feminism threads, but the peope who say feminism =\= equal rights are LITERALLY incorrect. Check the dictionary definition. I think some men don't want to label themselves as feminists because they think that title is not "macho" enough for them, because it comes from the root word "feminine." lol
[QUOTE=NiandraLades;43236124]I kinda feel that Men's Rights Activists don't really care about the actual rights of men and just kinda want to shit over feminism. Like, if you want to be taken seriously as an organization, stop doing this 4chan level of raid-y bullshit and go out there and build shelters/safe spaces for male abuse victims. I would also like people who claim false rape reports are a common thing or on the rise to back them up with statistics, since I can recall reading things before that say they are still rather rare and the amount of rapists actually jailed is very low, too.[/QUOTE] This is not all MRA's. At all. It's just the ones you're hearing about.
[QUOTE=katbug;43241816]This is not all MRA's. At all. It's just the ones you're hearing about.[/QUOTE] For a period of time the thread promoting this mensrights funtime activity was the most upvoted post on reddit's mensrights board
What the fuck is wrong with these sexist arse-holes? i really dont understand how someone can hold the idea's that these "MRA" cunts do and still think they are the good guys.
[QUOTE=Last or First;43237934]Bold: And? It's not out of the question that a rape victim could try to hit their attacker back. "The guy has a few bruises too" doesn't disqualify him from being a rapist. Not that I'm saying your brother's a rapist, but in the eyes of the law, "the guy has bruises" doesn't mean anything in terms of whether he's a rapist.[/QUOTE] The automatic condemning assumption being exactly that, the presence of bruises on her being admissible as evidence and bruises on him being dismissed as sustained when she tried to defend herself. No one entertained the idea for a second they just got in a heated, mutually fueled fight. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks[/media] (Not to imply either one was being abused in their fight, just that people make automatic assumptions about gender roles)
[QUOTE=katbug;43241816]This is not all MRA's. At all. It's just the ones you're hearing about.[/QUOTE] men's rights activism wouldn't exist if people weren't ignorant of what feminism is and had a basic knowledge of sociology and history. [editline]19th December 2013[/editline] so yeah everyone who is an MRA is ignorant i'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43242386]men's rights activism wouldn't exist if people weren't ignorant of what feminism is and had a basic knowledge of sociology and history.[/QUOTE] This, this so much. an awful lot of problems MRA people claim to want to fix by opposing feminism are actually caused by problems feminism is dedicated to putting right. One argument i hear a lot from MRA dudes is about how men are much less likely to gain custody of a child during a divorce and how this is why feminism is evil grrrrrr- If that statement is even correct- its not caused by the system favouring women, it happens because one of the roles women are expected to fill in society is having children and then staying at home looking after them. If this view wasn't constantly imposed on women, fathers would have an equal chance at custody, this is evidence that sexist views and expectations of women can also negatively affect men- another example being women being considered frail and weak, so violence from a woman against a man is unfairly considered to be less serious.
[QUOTE=fulgrim;43242602]This, this so much. an awful lot of problems MRA people claim to want to fix by opposing feminism are actually caused by problems feminism is dedicated to putting right. One argument i hear a lot from MRA dudes is about how men are much less likely to gain custody of a child during a divorce and how this is why feminism is evil grrrrrr- If that statement is even correct- its not caused by the system favouring women, it happens because one of the roles women are expected to fill in society is having children and then staying at home looking after them. If this view wasn't constantly imposed on women, fathers would have an equal chance at custody, this is evidence that sexist views and expectations of women can also negatively affect men- another example being women being considered frail and weak, so violence from a woman against a man is unfairly considered to be less serious.[/QUOTE] That is just untrue. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_years_doctrine]Before 1839 men were assumed to be owners of their children and therefore won custody by default. Caroline Norton, an early feminist, campaigned for this to change. Because of this feminist, women were given presumed custody until the child was seven, later changed to 16.[/url] [editline]20th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;43239042]I'm saying I don't care because it doesn't affect anybody. It's the same reason I don't care about the ongoing war between North Dakota and South Dakota; it's a problem I just made up and which doesn't actually affect the lives of anyone.[/QUOTE] Tell that to Andy Warhol?
[QUOTE=lazyguy;43243021]Tell that to Andy Warhol?[/QUOTE] What happened to Andy Warhol is an isolated incident - he was attacked by someone who was off her rocker.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;43241048]I've pointed this out in a dozen feminism threads, but the peope who say feminism =\= equal rights are LITERALLY incorrect. Check the dictionary definition. I think some men don't want to label themselves as feminists because they think that title is not "macho" enough for them, because it comes from the root word "feminine." lol[/QUOTE] And to that I'd say for a diverse ideology with varying ideals and methods for achieving goals, a few sentences in the dictionary just doesn't cover it. The reason people don't want to label themselves as feminists is the same reason they don't want to label themselves as MRAs, because of idiots giving the entire label a bad name. I considered myself a feminist before all this stupid shit, then it became apparent that the label was associated with radical feminists now who think hurt feelings are the cause of all problems and try to shame people they deem privileged. So rather than try to disassociate myself from that shit by using terms like radical or third-wave, its better to drop all of it and not associate with anything because this is all so retarded.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;43243241]And to that I'd say for a diverse ideology with varying ideals and methods for achieving goals, a few sentences in the dictionary just doesn't cover it. The reason people don't want to label themselves as feminists is the same reason they don't want to label themselves as MRAs, because of idiots giving the entire label a bad name. I considered myself a feminist before all this stupid shit, then it became apparent that the label was associated with radical feminists now who think hurt feelings are the cause of all problems and try to shame people they deem privileged. So rather than try to disassociate myself from that shit by using terms like radical or third-wave, its better to drop all of it and not associate with anything because this is all so retarded.[/QUOTE] I still think of myself as a feminist. I think women should have equal rights to those of men. That makes me a feminist.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;43243241]And to that I'd say for a diverse ideology with varying ideals and methods for achieving goals, a few sentences in the dictionary just doesn't cover it. The reason people don't want to label themselves as feminists is the same reason they don't want to label themselves as MRAs, because of idiots giving the entire label a bad name. I considered myself a feminist before all this stupid shit, then it became apparent that the label was associated with radical feminists now who think hurt feelings are the cause of all problems and try to shame people they deem privileged. So rather than try to disassociate myself from that shit by using terms like radical or third-wave, its better to drop all of it and not associate with anything because this is all so retarded.[/QUOTE] except idiots DONT give the entire label a bad name, people that are against feminism use the relatively small amount of extremists as a way to justify hatred of the entire movement, same way people use extremist muslims to demonize all of islam. and that thing about privilege, that's just you fundamentally misunderstanding the concept of privilege and why it's brought up. it's not to make you feel shame it's to make you THINK and to feel empathy
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43243330]except idiots DONT give the entire label a bad name, people that are against feminism use the relatively small amount of extremists as a way to justify hatred of the entire movement, same way people use extremist muslims to demonize all of islam. and that thing about privilege, that's just you fundamentally misunderstanding the concept of privilege and why it's brought up. it's not to make you feel shame it's to make you THINK and to feel empathy[/QUOTE] I could name a number of people just on this forum who I would consider idiots giving the entire label a bad name, and I don't think all the extremists congregate here. Think about your metaphor for a second though, the idea that not all muslims are extremist and its just the bad ones giving them all a bad name, that's incredibly well known and yet people still don't give a fuck and it changes nothing. The perception of muslims remains tarnished because of extremists and people still associate all muslims with the few. In the same way it comes off as a weak excuse to try and dismiss outliers in feminism, and it doesn't work. Fairly sure I understand what privilege is, but the way people throw it around it makes me think they don't, and that's what the problem is. Same as the basic concept of microaggressions is understood, but people use it as an excuse to blow up a slip of the tongue, misunderstanding or plain old hurt feelings into lynch mobs. I don't think either concept is of any real worth and like everything else, the label is meaningless.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;43243241]And to that I'd say for a diverse ideology with varying ideals and methods for achieving goals, a few sentences in the dictionary just doesn't cover it. The reason people don't want to label themselves as feminists is the same reason they don't want to label themselves as MRAs, because of idiots giving the entire label a bad name. I considered myself a feminist before all this stupid shit, then it became apparent that the label was associated with radical feminists now who think hurt feelings are the cause of all problems and try to shame people they deem privileged. So rather than try to disassociate myself from that shit by using terms like radical or third-wave, its better to drop all of it and not associate with anything because this is all so retarded.[/QUOTE] If you think "radical feminism" is giving the label a bad name then that just proves you've completely bought into the media sensationalism trying to stir up shit with dishonest and skewed news coverage.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;43243479]I could name a number of people just on this forum who I would consider idiots giving the entire label a bad name, and I don't think all the extremists congregate here. Think about your metaphor for a second though, the idea that not all muslims are extremist and its just the bad ones giving them all a bad name, that's incredibly well known and yet people still don't give a fuck and it changes nothing. The perception of muslims remains tarnished because of extremists and people still associate all muslims with the few. In the same way it comes off as a weak excuse to try and dismiss outliers in feminism, and it doesn't work. Fairly sure I understand what privilege is, but the way people throw it around it makes me think they don't, and that's what the problem is. Same as the basic concept of microaggressions is understood, but people use it as an excuse to blow up a slip of the tongue, misunderstanding or plain old hurt feelings into lynch mobs. I don't think either concept is of any real worth and like everything else, the label is meaningless.[/QUOTE] so your solution is to just disassociate with feminism? i'd prefer if people would just educate themselves on what something is rather than blindly hating it. and no, you don't understand what privilege is or what people mean when they throw it around, you're proving that by saying it's to shame people. it's not, it's to make people think about shit they're saying and empathize with underprivileged groups. people try to act like it's all about being made to feel guilty because they refuse to empathize with underprivileged groups.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;43243479]I could name a number of people just on this forum who I would consider idiots giving the entire label a bad name, and I don't think all the extremists congregate here. Think about your metaphor for a second though, the idea that not all muslims are extremist and its just the bad ones giving them all a bad name, that's incredibly well known and yet people still don't give a fuck and it changes nothing. The perception of muslims remains tarnished because of extremists and people still associate all muslims with the few. In the same way it comes off as a weak excuse to try and dismiss outliers in feminism, and it doesn't work. Fairly sure I understand what privilege is, but the way people throw it around it makes me think they don't, and that's what the problem is. Same as the basic concept of microaggressions is understood, but people use it as an excuse to blow up a slip of the tongue, misunderstanding or plain old hurt feelings into lynch mobs. I don't think either concept is of any real worth and like everything else, the label is meaningless.[/QUOTE] the concept of privilege isn't "oh what was that you're white then FUCK YOU," and you have severely misunderstood if you think it is. it just means that you should acknowledge that you have it better than some others through circumstances entirely outside of your control, and that you should also consider the problems of people with equally little control over their situation. nobody expects you to emasculate yourself with a spork, and nobody expects you to join FEMEN; you just have to be a nice and considerate person. nobody is going to lynch you for making mistakes, you just have to acknowledge it when you make them. this is literally basic, common decency we're talking about here, and it really isn't that hard to keep up.
[QUOTE=Cone;43243587]the concept of privilege isn't "oh what was that you're white then FUCK YOU," and you have severely misunderstood if you think it is. it just means that you should acknowledge that you have it better than some others through circumstances entirely outside of your control, and that you should also consider the problems of people with equally little control over their situation. nobody expects you to emasculate yourself with a spork, and nobody expects you to join FEMEN; you just have to be a nice and considerate person. nobody is going to lynch you for making mistakes, you just have to acknowledge it when you make them. this is literally basic, common decency we're talking about here, and it really isn't that hard to keep up.[/QUOTE] and not only that, it's about making people empathize, like, you have so many white middle class people saying that blacks in the ghetto are lazy and that's why they're on benefits or commit crimes and shit like that because they just can't empathize with the fact that their privileged view of society and life is completely different from an unprivileged persons
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43243498]If you think "radical feminism" is giving the label a bad name then that just proves you've completely bought into the media sensationalism trying to stir up shit with dishonest and skewed news coverage.[/QUOTE] That's a laugh. Since people love dictionary definitions, here's something not so sensationalist that I'm basic it off. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism[/url] [QUOTE=Lachz0r;43243506]so your solution is to just disassociate with feminism? i'd prefer if people would just educate themselves on what something is rather than blindly hating it. and no, you don't understand what privilege is or what people mean when they throw it around, you're proving that by saying it's to shame people. it's not, it's to make people think about shit they're saying and empathize with underprivileged groups. people try to act like it's all about being made to feel guilty because they refuse to empathize with underprivileged groups.[/QUOTE] Is the only defence you have against me accusations that I don't know what I'm talking about? I'm being pretty specific about what I object to, surely if it's that flawed you can point it out rather than repeating the same excuse. Lets just say that from the basic concept of privilege to the higher application of it, a lot gets lost. How people use the concept is also diverse and people use it in different ways. The result is that while you can come up with your own idea of it, one that's incredibly watered down, it is also poisoned by a lot of bullshit and as I've said before, poisoning the label hurts your public perception a lot. [QUOTE=Cone;43243587]the concept of privilege isn't "oh what was that you're white then FUCK YOU," and you have severely misunderstood if you think it is. it just means that you should acknowledge that you have it better than some others through circumstances entirely outside of your control, and that you should also consider the problems of people with equally little control over their situation. nobody expects you to emasculate yourself with a spork, and nobody expects you to join FEMEN; you just have to be a nice and considerate person. nobody is going to lynch you for making mistakes, you just have to acknowledge it when you make them. this is literally basic, common decency we're talking about here, and it really isn't that hard to keep up.[/QUOTE] So basic courtesy, empathy for others, and consideration. But you NEED feminism to tell you that, and you NEED the concept of privilege because otherwise how would you understand. Do you see why I think its unnecessary?
[QUOTE=Devodiere;43243651]That's a laugh. Since people love dictionary definitions, here's something not so sensationalist that I'm basic it off. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism[/url][/quote] would you mind highlighting specifically what you find objectionable in that article?
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;43237300]Except the entire men's rights movement is inherently stupid. Feminists have a long list of valid, statistically supported grievances while "men's rights advocates" only have a bunch of rhetorical bullshit and misrepresented and misunderstood social issues[/QUOTE] I consider equality important and would say that most MRAs are deluded more often than not. But saying that there are things in the system which are inherently problematic to males is not a delusion in my book. I'd say that saying that they merely spout rhetorical bullshit, or a bad view of social issues is just as idiotic as some of the rhetorics you mention.
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