How do you fight possible false rape reports? Get your MRA buddies and spam actual false rape report
291 replies, posted
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;43250785]
Feminism "having a bad name" isn't a reason to change the name, it's a reason to get the message out and be better understood.[/QUOTE]
The Gender equality movement is a much better name.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;43250785]Relabeling feminism as something else with the specific intent to make it more palatable to people who aren't even interested or invested in its goals seems at best counterproductive and at worst incredibly dishonest.
Feminism's "PR problem" comes from aggressively misogynistic dickweasels like Rush Limbaugh, in a misogynist dominated media, seeking to shame feminists with false accusations and strawmen.
Feminism "having a bad name" isn't a reason to change the name, it's a reason to get the message out and be better understood.[/QUOTE]
And what is your basis for saying it's because of the media? The fact that people like me are big fans of Rush Limbaugh and watch so much American news, or did you just pull it out of your ass as any old excuse?
Funnily enough your explanation places no blame on you, discourages introspection, and tells you to keep doing what you've already been doing.[I] "It's not your fault, it could never be your fault, it must be someone outside deliberately trying to hurt us"[/I]. Almost seems like the only purpose behind it is to make you feel better about yourself.
I explained in later posts that it is people going under the label of feminism that give it a bad name, and this kind of delusion is a good example.
the fact that people want to rename feminism because arrogant idiots are easily confused is a shameful one
[QUOTE=Devodiere;43255618]The fact that people like me are big fans of Rush Limbaugh and watch so much American news[/QUOTE]
What? ... for real?
[QUOTE=Devodiere;43255618]The fact that people like me are big fans of Rush Limbaugh[/QUOTE]
Why are you a fan of Rush Limbaugh?
I don't mean it as an insult, I am seriously curious about what makes someone like him a person to look up to (I could however list several things that I think makes him a person that everyone should ignore forever).
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43255408]The Gender equality movement is a much better name.[/QUOTE]
if someone wanted to have informed opinions on the gender equality movement then they would learn why it's called feminism
[editline]21st December[/editline]
do i seriously have to use the phrase "directed egalitarianism" again
[QUOTE=Devodiere;43255618]
Funnily enough your explanation places no blame on you[/QUOTE]
what are you blaming on who what
[QUOTE=Devodiere;43255618]And what is your basis for saying it's because of the media? The fact that [B]people like me are big fans of Rush Limbaugh [/B]and watch so much American news, or did you just pull it out of your ass as any old excuse?
Funnily enough your explanation places no blame on you, discourages introspection, and tells you to keep doing what you've already been doing.[I] "It's not your fault, it could never be your fault, it must be someone outside deliberately trying to hurt us"[/I]. Almost seems like the only purpose behind it is to make you feel better about yourself.
I explained in later posts that it is people going under the label of feminism that give it a bad name, and this kind of delusion is a good example.[/QUOTE]
You're talking about a guy who consistently attacks others for attention, including claiming that Michael J. Fox was faking Parkinson's.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;43256086]What? ... for real?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=LarparNar;43256297]Why are you a fan of Rush Limbaugh?
I don't mean it as an insult, I am seriously curious about what makes someone like him a person to look up to (I could however list several things that I think makes him a person that everyone should ignore forever).[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ownederd;43256990]You're talking about a guy who consistently attacks others for attention, including claiming that Michael J. Fox was faking Parkinson's.[/QUOTE]
I figured the very idea that someone could be a fan of Rush Limbaugh was a joke and horribly implausible in itself, but I guess not. Point being that blaming the media for influencing people when so many of them pay no attention to it or outright reject it is like saying it's Russia's anti-gay laws that are responsible for Uganda.
[QUOTE=thisispain;43256776]what are you blaming on who what[/QUOTE]
Subject at hand: the label of feminism having a PR problem inhibiting the ability to do anything and being ineffective at convincing people.
Max's claim: damage to PR is caused solely by external factors who are obviously misogynistic and aim to prevent feminism from being effective.
My claim: majority of damage caused by those going under the label of feminism being divisive, obscuring goals with incorporation of more radical elements, and generally fucking up the PR.
The damage is done and the label of feminism has certainly become more divisive and unpalatable than the basic goal of gender equality would seem. The blame for this isn't placed solely on detractors though, it is on those within the group who advertised it so poorly that people who had no objection whatsoever are polarised. Figuring out what went wrong and how to avoid this kind of catastrophe is important, blaming Rush Limbaugh is masturbatory.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;43257662]I figured the very idea that someone could be a fan of Rush Limbaugh was a joke and horribly implausible in itself, but I guess not. Point being that blaming the media for influencing people when so many of them pay no attention to it or outright reject it is like saying it's Russia's anti-gay laws that are responsible for Uganda.
[/QUOTE]
Media is pretty far reaching, not just television. Word of mouth, news on the internet, even forums like reddit and facepunch are pretty significantly influenced by media.
[quote]
Subject at hand: the label of feminism having a PR problem inhibiting the ability to do anything and being ineffective at convincing people.
Max's claim: damage to PR is caused solely by external factors who are obviously misogynistic and aim to prevent feminism from being effective.
My claim: majority of damage caused by those going under the label of feminism being divisive, obscuring goals with incorporation of more radical elements, and generally fucking up the PR.
The damage is done and the label of feminism has certainly become more divisive and unpalatable than the basic goal of gender equality would seem. The blame for this isn't placed solely on detractors though, it is on those within the group who advertised it so poorly that people who had no objection whatsoever are polarised. Figuring out what went wrong and how to avoid this kind of catastrophe is important, blaming Rush Limbaugh is masturbatory.[/quote]
It would be pretty pointless, probably detremental even, to change the label because then the new label would just become tarnished in the same way that feminism is.
You can take nearly every large grouping of people, pick out certain people in that group as example and use them to demonize the group as a whole.
[QUOTE=Valnar;43259055]Media is pretty far reaching, not just television. Word of mouth, news on the internet, even forums like reddit and facepunch are pretty significantly influenced by media.[/quote]
The butterfly effect then, Rush Limbaugh calls feminists bitches and millions on the internet become misogynist? There may be trickles of it coming through but this isn't patient zero and it's quite obviously got other factors, if this is a contributor at all.
[quote]It would be pretty pointless, probably detremental even, to change the label because then the new label would just become tarnished in the same way that feminism is.
You can take nearly every large grouping of people, pick out certain people in that group as example and use them to demonize the group as a whole.[/QUOTE]
I'm becoming more convinced it isn't the extremists, most people have no clue and fuck the PR up horribly so yeah the same thing would probably happen if you tried to rebrand it. The solutions are trying to not fuck things up by only doing slacktivist yelling, deal with the fact that there will be demonisation no matter what and try to be a good example, or just drop the label all together because you don't need to be part of a special club to work for gender equality.
The situation now is fucked and most people who would be potential supporters are alienated, so unless you'd prefer to just argue and accomplish nothing, it might be an idea to do something about it.
[QUOTE=Cone;43256434]if someone wanted to have informed opinions on the gender equality movement then they would learn why it's called feminism[/QUOTE]
Of course. The term originated during the womens suffrage movement. The problem with it is that it's implying a focus on a single gender.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43259350]Of course. The term originated during the womens suffrage movement. The problem with it is that it's implying a focus on a single gender.[/QUOTE]
Time to overhaul it for the 21st century.
And in the process ditch the biased ass rabidly stereotypical feminists that believe every single problem is due to men in general.
see:
[QUOTE=Cabbage;43250717]Feminism is a name for a few different things, it's been picked up on by a bunch of different people that feminism is more of a blanket term, from true gender equality to the crazy bullshit activism that involves calling all men rapists, assaulting churches, you get the idea.
That means when I say I'm not a fan of feminism, I'm not a fan of their one-sided methods in chasing gender equality, because although it seems to be 'unfashionable' to take this viewpoint, there are inequalities in both male and female genders. And yet just by calling it 'feminism' you seem to belittle or gloss over this fact, and instead focus on inequalities imposed on females. That's why feminism is a movement that does not achieve full gender equality if their activists or anyone with an actual manifesto is anything to go by. I'm sure there are feminists who want true gender equality, but they shouldn't go under that label.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43259350]Of course. The term originated during the womens suffrage movement. The problem with it is that it's implying a focus on a single gender.[/QUOTE]
if someone is so completely vapid that they can't look beyond a name (one that's still relevant btw) then i really doubt i'd want them to be part of this Gender Equality Movement
[editline]21st December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43260273]Time to overhaul it for the 21st century.
And in the process ditch the biased ass rabidly stereotypical feminists that believe every single problem is due to men in general.[/QUOTE]
yes we're going to install Google Chrome on all our computers and assassinate everyone in femen TIME 2 GET HIP
[QUOTE=Cone;43261003]yes we're going to install Google Chrome on all our computers and assassinate everyone in femen TIME 2 GET HIP[/QUOTE]
wat
SNIP
[QUOTE=Cone;43261003]
yes we're going to install Google Chrome on all our computers and assassinate everyone in femen TIME 2 GET HIP[/QUOTE]
Seriously though. People blame gender discrimination on the male dominated patriarchy when this isn't really the case. Both sexes perpetuate gender roles that negatively affect both men and women.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43262431]Seriously though. People blame gender discrimination on the male dominated patriarchy when this isn't really the case. Both sexes perpetuate gender roles that negatively affect both men and women.[/QUOTE]
Both sexes perpetuate gender roles because they are pressured by a patriarchal system to act a certain way. Men to be strong and dominant, women to be docile and subservient.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43262542]Both sexes perpetuate gender roles because they are pressured by a patriarchal system to act a certain way. Men to be strong and dominant, women to be docile and subservient.[/QUOTE]
When someone's proven A you just INSIST on saying B just because you can.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;43234229]I never said it was a good idea, but you can't deny that it's raising a fair few eyebrows.[/QUOTE]
they're all a childish douche and that's just that
you know what happens when false rape reports get spammed?
[B]real rape reports may be ignored[/B]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43236584]Feminism isn't about equality. Its about fighting for womens rights. Plenty of feminists have this strange way of thinking. Something about how men have the power in the patriarchy.[/QUOTE]
feminist tier rights is garbage
I want women to be equal (that's womens rights too) and so do a lot of feminists
I'm not sure anyone has pointed this out yet, but it is [b]important[/b]:
These reports are not going to the police, but to the college's Sexual Misconduct division. The procedure there is to hold a hearing [url=http://www.oxy.edu/sexual-assault-resources-support/policies-procedures]which can expel students based not on reasonable doubt - as in a court of law - but a "preponderance of the evidence" i.e. "more likely than not"[/url]. This is why the MRAs are doing this.
There is a good thing that came of this - the next time MRAs talk about how false rape reports are the worst crime in the world, we can simply ask if they mean like the false rape reports MRAs did that one time.
[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43262567]When someone's proven A you just INSIST on saying B just because you can.[/QUOTE]
Who proved what?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;43262875]There is a good thing that came of this - the next time MRAs talk about how false rape reports are the worst crime in the world, we can simply ask if they mean like the false rape reports MRAs did that one time.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure that MRAs would suggest that the effects of false rape reports were the problem/worst crime in the world.
Worst case scenario, the accused gets jailed. Even if they don't, it all still hangs over their head as a big "POSSIBLE RAPIST" sign.
They're not committing the same "crime" because no one is going to be jailed or adversely effected in that way due to this spamming.
That said, I don't know the system. Maybe each and every report will be thoroughly looked into and therefore induce those same problems for the reportees, but I doubt that.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43262431]Seriously though. People blame gender discrimination on the male dominated patriarchy when this isn't really the case. Both sexes perpetuate gender roles that negatively affect both men and women.[/QUOTE]
now i know for a fact that this isn't a new concept to you. for once, please listen.
those gender roles that screw men over are only there by negative association with women; women are weak, men must be strong; women are emotional and irrational, men must be stoic and emotionless; women can't fight, men can. just because it hurts men doesn't mean that it had to have been started by women, and you probably have some pretty deep-seated issues if you think it was. you see, like i've been saying for a fairly long time, it's an [I]institutionalized problem[/I]. that means that men or women can inadvertently hurt themselves by supporting things that their policy-makers haven't thought through.
if you take anything from this thread, please let it be this. this is a very important concept.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43262431]Seriously though. People blame gender discrimination on the male dominated patriarchy when this isn't really the case. Both sexes perpetuate gender roles that negatively affect both men and women.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Cone;43263539]now i know for a fact that this isn't a new concept to you. for once, please listen.
if you take anything from this thread, please let it be this. this is a very important concept.[/QUOTE]
Not much really added. Gender roles affect both genders negatively. Women are expected to serve men but men are expected to serve the country, etc.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;43263037]
They're not committing the same "crime" because no one is going to be jailed or adversely effected in that way due to this spamming.[/QUOTE]
Most false rape reports to the police go the same way. The cops ask some questions, they conclude there's no evidence, everyone goes on their way. You only hear about the high profile ones.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43265840]Not much really added. Gender roles affect both genders negatively. Women are expected to serve men but men are expected to serve the country, etc.[/QUOTE]
Yes we all agree gender roles affect both genders negatively. The thing we're telling you and what you're completely failing to grasp is that those gender roles exist because of patriarchy.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43265840]men are expected to serve the country, etc.[/QUOTE]
Which is something that came about because of women being looked at as weaker, thus not fit for serving the country.
Is this a completely impossible concept for you to understand?
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43265840]Not much really added. Gender roles affect both genders negatively. Women are expected to serve men but men are expected to serve the country, etc.[/QUOTE]
i literally brought up [I]exactly this[/I]
[QUOTE=Cone;43263539]women can't fight, men can.[/QUOTE]
i'm legitimately questioning your reading comprehension by this point
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