Warren endorses Clinton - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50494615]I thought people liked Obama[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what you're implying, but I don't particularly mind Obama that much. I just know that there are guys on here that would be all chin-up-stiff-upper-lip at people who dared to vote for Hillary, and vice versa-ish. The main thing is, everyone's acting fucking disdainful about whatever decision a potential voter is going to make and screaming their own opinions as facts. It sure as hell doesn't help me figure out what would be the best decision to make, especially when each of those opinions are coming from different people with different beliefs.

It's one thing to not like Clinton because of corruption accusations but to not like her because it'll "keep the status quo"?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50494680]It's one thing to not like Clinton because of corruption accusations but to not like her because it'll "keep the status quo"?[/QUOTE] I'm not against that either. I just know that some people on here are. I was attempting to paraphrasing what those people would say/think if people successfully voted Hillary in.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50494680]It's one thing to not like Clinton because of corruption accusations but to not like her because it'll "keep the status quo"?[/QUOTE] It'll be four more years of Obama, meaning no change. So yes, it'll keep the status quo. It'll keep the status quo by keeping the same political establishment in power. Make no mistake, if she's in office then she'll do [B]nothing[/B] for you. In fact, she [B]despises[/B] regular people like you. People vote for Donald Trump because he represents the people. People who are fed up with the political system doing nothing for them.

Elizabeth Warren? A so called Progressive supported by a REAL Progressive and she supports Hillary Fucking Clinton? The same Elizabeth Warren who people touted as a spiritual successor to Bernie Sanders in 2020 or 2024? She's progressing alright. Progressing into a Hillary Clinton level flip flopper. Progressive MY ASS Warren is no more a progressive than Obama is. I won't vote for her in 4/8 years. [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Skerion;50494600]I'm just gonna quote this post from the STGYM thread since something's been bugging me. Like I said, it really doesn't fucking help that people in this section are blaming/condemning people and saying shit like "these people deserve whatever happens to them and America for their decision" and "you have no right to complain about what happens" while treating both of those statements like they're somehow objective fuckin' facts.[/QUOTE] You should vote for who you think is right of course. Vote for the person you think should be president. These "strategic voters" are screwing other voters over.

[QUOTE=adamsz;50496337]Elizabeth Warren? A so called Progressive supported by a REAL Progressive and she supports Hillary Fucking Clinton? The same Elizabeth Warren who people touted as a spiritual successor to Bernie Sanders in 2020 or 2024? She's progressing alright. Progressing into a Hillary Clinton level [B]flip flopper[/B]. Progressive MY ASS Warren is no more a progressive than Obama is. Screw her in 2020/2024, she's not getting my vote.[/QUOTE] Is this the biggest buzz word of 2016? Why are you surprised a democrat is endorsing then democrat nominee?

[QUOTE=plunger435;50496353]Is this the biggest buzz word of 2016? Why are you surprised a democrat is endorsing then democrat nominee?[/QUOTE] Because Hillary stands for everything against what Sanders has campaigned for. Hypocrisy and changing your position on an issue just because it gives you an advantage. That's a character flaw that defines Hillary. No self respecting Progressive would support Clinton so eagerly and boldly. So no one who believes what Sanders values should support Warren down the road.

[QUOTE=adamsz;50496361]Because Hillary stands for everything against what Sanders has campaigned for. Hypocrisy and changing your position on an issue just because it gives you an advantage. That's a character flaw that defines Hillary.[/QUOTE] Elizabeth Warren has never been beholden to Sanders though. So how does this make her a flip flopper, she complained once about Clinton in 2004. That's about the extent of her criticism on it.

[QUOTE=plunger435;50496372]Elizabeth Warren has never been beholden to Sanders though.[/QUOTE] But she's often been compared to Sanders as a fellow progressive and similar person. Someone whose positions don't change as a politician. This is at the very least a bad sign, if not an outright reverse of that belief.

[QUOTE=adamsz;50496390]But she's often been compared to Sanders as a fellow progressive and similar person. Someone whose positions don't change as a politician. This is at the very least a bad sign, if not an outright reverse of that value.[/QUOTE] I must have missed the part where she changed all of her policy views as well. You can't want her to be the 2020 democratic nominee and also want her to blow off the Democratic Party.

[QUOTE=plunger435;50496393]I must have missed the part where she changed all of her policy views as well. You can't want her to be the 2020 democratic nominee and also want her to blow off the Democratic Party.[/QUOTE] Right. So people who want to support a candidate like Sanders who want to change the status quo and the Democratic Party should not accept Warren as a "progressive" in the ways Bernie is. I'm saying that she isn't what she claims to be: a fighter for reform and progressive ideals. I've gotten emails from progressive groups that want to support Warren and I'm arguing that they're supporting a hypocrite. Not an actual progressive.

[QUOTE=adamsz;50496411]Right. So people who want to support a candidate like Sanders who want to change the status quo and the Democratic Party should not accept Warren as a "progressive" in the ways Bernie is. I'm saying that she isn't what she claims to be a fighter for reform and progressive ideals. I've gotten emails from progressive groups that want to support Warren and I'm arguing that they're supporting a hypocrite.[/QUOTE] So you would rather she goes independent or something and ensure she can't initiate any of her policy change? She's just better at politics than Sanders. Sanders had previously said he wanted his voters to vote Clinton in the event he lost, does that make him a hypocrite?

[QUOTE=plunger435;50496430]So you would rather she goes independent or something and ensure she can't initiate any of her policy change? She's just better at politics than Sanders.[/QUOTE] I think this reveals that Warren doesn't want take a neutral stance on the canidates this year. She's just another Democratic Lite canidate. She's just like Clinton or Obama and everyone else who are fighting to maintain the current state of corruption and decline.

[QUOTE=plunger435;50496430]Sanders had previously said he wanted his voters to vote Clinton in the event he lost, does that make him a hypocrite?[/QUOTE] In a way yes. I don't think that is what he should done.

[QUOTE=adamsz;50496442]I think this reveals that Warren doesn't want take a neutral stance on the canidates this year. She's just another Democratic Lite canidate. She's just like Clinton or Obama and everyone else who are fighting to maintain the current state of corruption and decline.[/QUOTE] So someone how this endorsement changes all of her policies even though there hasn't actually been any indication of that. Does this make Sanders another democrat life for tell telling his supporters to vote Clinton? Or a flip flopper for dropping that view.

[QUOTE=plunger435;50496450]So someone how this endorsement changes all of her policies even though there hasn't actually been any indication of that. Does this make Sanders another democrat life for tell telling his supporters to vote Clinton? Or a flip flopper for dropping that view.[/QUOTE] I think Sanders made a mistake in telling his voters that and I fundamentally disagree with supporting Clinton.

[QUOTE=adamsz;50496449]In a way yes. I don't think that is what he should done.[/QUOTE] Then I guess you just don't want any of your candidates to win an election. Because that's the result of going totally against your party.

[QUOTE=plunger435;50496450]Does this make Sanders another democrat life for tell telling his supporters to vote Clinton?[/QUOTE] Sanders has never directly told his supporters to vote for Clinton. Although he has bowed down to the establishment by never attacking her and saying that he'll "work with her" to defeat Trump. If you're a real progressive then here's your [B]real[/B] candidate: [video=youtube;TzwZtmTEMuw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzwZtmTEMuw[/video]

[QUOTE=plunger435;50496353]Is this the biggest buzz word of 2016? Why are you surprised a democrat is endorsing then democrat nominee?[/QUOTE] It's been a meme since 2004 when Americans re-elected Bush over Kerry. It doesn't matter that your opinion changed once, 10 years ago, and since then you have consistently stuck with the current position, you are now a flip flopper. Even if it's a genuinely progressive policy like recognizing and fighting for gay marriage when it's not even popular to do so. With the growing divide between liberals and conservatives, ideological purity is seen more important than practical ability to issue and enforce policy. There are also the people who know literally nothing about Warren other than that she is vaguely progressive and criticized Clinton years ago, when in reality she has always been a political realist and generally votes along Democratic lines anyway.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50493562]Which view? [editline]10th June 2016[/editline] When has Clinton pandered to the pro-abortion group? [B]The anti-gay marriage lobby?[/B][/QUOTE] She specifically said marriage was between a man and a woman then is now pro-gay marriage once it became political suicide to be an anti-gay Democrat. [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50494615]I thought people liked Obama[/QUOTE] He was a good president. One of the best in a while. Clinton just won't [i]undo[/i] the good Obama's done. To quote Obama in 2008: "She'll say anything, and change nothing". So, she won't be malignant (well, her judgement on foreign policy is dubious at best), just benign, and won't put forward many progressive ideas. This is the worst election in recent American history, imo.

[QUOTE=GamerKiwi;50497621][B]She specifically said marriage was between a man and a woman then is now pro-gay marriage once it became political suicide to be an anti-gay Democrat. [/B] He was a good president. One of the best in a while. Clinton just won't [I]undo[/I] the good Obama's done. To quote Obama in 2008: "She'll say anything, and change nothing". So, she won't be malignant (well, her judgement on foreign policy is dubious at best), just benign, and won't put forward many progressive ideas. This is the worst election in recent American history, imo.[/QUOTE] And it's a bad thing she's pro gay marriage? You seem to be complaining that a politician is determining their policies based on their constituents. Which is their exact purpose.

[QUOTE=plunger435;50497631]And it's a bad thing she's pro gay marriage? You seem to be complaining that a politician is determining their policies based on their constituents. Which is their exact purpose.[/QUOTE] I'm mostly just answering your question of "when has she pandered to the anti-gay lobby?" There's a lot of legitimate complaints about Clinton. Flip-flopping's hardly one of them.

[QUOTE=plunger435;50497631]And it's a bad thing she's pro gay marriage? You seem to be complaining that a politician is determining their policies based on their constituents. Which is their exact purpose.[/QUOTE] I think you won't ever understand the simple reasons people don't like her.

[QUOTE=Tudd;50497664]I think you won't ever understand the simple reasons people don't like her.[/QUOTE] I think people on FP need to get information about the election from a source other than SH. [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=GamerKiwi;50497657]I'm mostly just answering your question of "when has she pandered to the anti-gay lobby?" There's a lot of legitimate complaints about Clinton. Flip-flopping's hardly one of them.[/QUOTE] That wasn't me who asked it.

[QUOTE=adamsz;50496390]But she's often been compared to Sanders as a fellow progressive and similar person. Someone whose positions don't change as a politician. This is at the very least a bad sign, if not an outright reverse of that belief.[/QUOTE] Wait, so she's a flip flopper because she hasn't followed the comparison based on other's opinions of her? How does that make sense? [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=GamerKiwi;50497621] He was a good president. One of the best in a while. Clinton just won't [i]undo[/i] the good Obama's done. To quote Obama in 2008: "She'll say anything, and change nothing". So, she won't be malignant (well, her judgement on foreign policy is dubious at best), just benign, and won't put forward many progressive ideas. This is the worst election in recent American history, imo.[/QUOTE] Well if she were followed by Bush I can see how "changes nothing" can be bad, but if you were pro-Obama for the past 8 years, how exactly is "changes nothing" from that a bad thing?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50499291] Well if she were followed by Bush I can see how "changes nothing" can be bad, but if you were pro-Obama for the past 8 years, how exactly is "changes nothing" from that a bad thing?[/QUOTE] She has very little to offer in the way of improving our medical system, doesn't wanna turn over Citizens United, has a poor track record on foreign policy, and isn't serious about campaign finance reform. She won't undo the good, but she won't fix the bad.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50499291]Wait, so she's a flip flopper because she hasn't followed the comparison based on other's opinions of her? How does that make sense? [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] Well if she were followed by Bush I can see how "changes nothing" can be bad, but if you were pro-Obama for the past 8 years, how exactly is "changes nothing" from that a bad thing?[/QUOTE] She's basically as progressive as LBJ, only willing to continue what Obama started and not really going to pickup any new crusades such as addressing the problems that caused 2008, she is comfortable saying dod-frank was good enough, and she's probably not going to do much towards wealth inequality or fixing the social security funding issues

[QUOTE=GamerKiwi;50500034]She has very little to offer in the way of improving our medical system, doesn't wanna turn over Citizens United, has a poor track record on foreign policy, and isn't serious about campaign finance reform. She won't undo the good, but she won't fix the bad.[/QUOTE] What makes you think she doesn't want to overturn Citizens' United? I completely agree with you on the medical system and campaign finance reform. Clinton said that [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/05/19/today-in-politics-clinton-says-citizens-united-would-guide-her-supreme-court-picks/"]her metric for picking Supreme Court justices[/URL] would involve their likelihood to overturn the Citizens' United decision. The Citizen's United decision was [i]about[/i] a smear piece by a conservative group entitled "Hillary: The Movie," starring people like Ann Coulter. The initial court finding decided that it was "electioneering communication" and could be played on television, despite breaking McCain-Feingold, and the Supreme Court broadened that decision by preventing [i]any[/i] attempts to ban corporate production of "electioneering communication." Citizens' United was entirely about Hillary Clinton. She's never once spoken positively of that decision. It was rooted in the creation of a whole film as an attack ad against her. The idea that she's "pro-Citizens United" is one of the worst cases of internet groupthink I've ever seen - there's zero convincing evidence that she is. She's consistently been against it since the decision was made. If you're going to criticize her for flip-flopping, which is reasonable, don't start making up more flip-flops - she's been very consistent on Citizens' United for the last six years.