• CPAC: Conservatives fear generational shift to the left, call Millennials "spoiled"
    315 replies, posted
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;51880715]Been to DC and saw all these monuments personally. They portray our founding fathers like Greek gods, so clearly Republican's minds are too busy being stuck in some mythology to pay attention to reality. [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/George_Washington_Greenough_statue.jpg/1200px-George_Washington_Greenough_statue.jpg[/t] A picture for reference. He looks more like Hercules than the president :v:[/QUOTE] I thought you were joking and posted a screenshot from Bioshock: Infinite for a moment - it is truly uncanny. I envisioned the caption to be "God gave me my whiteness and this sword, so take it forth against the foreign hordes."
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;51880690]It's an assessment of home-ownership which takes into consideration the fact that the cost of buying a home has risen over 300 percent in many areas but wages have still remained relatively stagnant over that same period, in a country which does little and less to protect consumers from predatory (and at times willfully deceptive) lending practices. It's an assessment coming from a person who has resigned himself to saving up for a plot of land connected to utilities and living in a dual trailer, because at least then he will be able to drop it without hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt when the economy in his region turns south, because having faith in your regional economy at this point is foolishly optimistic.[/QUOTE] Hey, don't get me wrong, we used to have a pretty serious problem with predatory lending. That was a huge part of the great housing collapse of "2008." Thankfully, it's actually gotten much, much better since then. The Dodd-Frank Act, which established the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the Truth in Lending Act, the Real Estate Settlement and Procedures Act, and an expansion of statutory fiduciary responsibilities of financial service professionals all resulted in a MUCH more transparent, responsible, and consumer-friendly financial services market for consumers. Predatory lending is not the same beast it once was, and your statement that it's just gotten worse and worse is objectively incorrect. [B]Granted[/B], that chump in the Whitehouse has promised to take a hatchet to these positive changes, primarily to benefit his own business empire. That would be disgusting and disastrous, no doubt, but things [I]have[/I] gotten much better. And, at the end of the day, even if he follows through on that promise, the "secret" to not being housepoor is to simply not buy a house you can't afford under mortgage terms that seek to exploit that. I'll make no excuses for predatory lenders, and I won't blame their victims for getting roped into bad deals by people that were supposed to be looking out for their best interests, but financial responsibility ultimately falls on your own shoulders. Nobody can force you to buy an overpriced house, and not all homes are overpriced. Examine your finances, consult with trustworthy financial institutions to determine what you can realistically and comfortably afford, and determine what kind of budget works for you. Then, seek out the markets that best fit your financial abilities, and narrow them down into the homes that will best suit your needs. As for the inflation, as I've explained in other threads, we [I]are[/I] at the peak of the most inflated housing market in US history. That's a given. BUT, there are two things that make homeownership a very real possibility for anybody pulling in a basic income, now and in the future: 1) Real estate markets are incredibly local. Just because even bottom-of-the-barrel homes in San Francisco [I]start[/I] at about $300k does not mean that the same conditions are true throughout the country. If you [I]choose[/I] to live in an absurdly inflated area, that's your prerogative. Maybe it's worth it for you, and if so, then don't let me talk you out of it. However, there are cities throughout the US where the cost of living is much, [I]much[/I] more affordable. 2) This [B]is[/B] the peak, or very near the peak, of the inflated market. While our momentum may carry us on for a while, a major reversal is on the horizon. Property values [I]will[/I] decline substantially, and the deflated conditions will very likely persist for at least 3-4 years, depending on severity, giving a nice window for any future shoppers. That said, if you don't ever want to own home, then don't own a home. I think you're being just a bit melodramatic, though.
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;51880715]Been to DC and saw all these monuments personally. They portray our founding fathers like Greek gods, so clearly Republican's minds are too busy being stuck in some mythology to pay attention to reality. [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/George_Washington_Greenough_statue.jpg/1200px-George_Washington_Greenough_statue.jpg[/t] A picture for reference. He looks more like Hercules than the president :v:[/QUOTE] Man, Gerogie boy is pretty ripped.
Yeah fuck those spoiled children juggling 40 hour a week jobs and overpriced college while attempting to make sure they don't run out of food before next paycheck. Fuck them for voting for a party that fights for livable wages, worker rights, cheaper college, and healthcare that doesn't ruin one financially. [QUOTE=ForgottenKane;51880715]Been to DC and saw all these monuments personally. They portray our founding fathers like Greek gods, so clearly Republican's minds are too busy being stuck in some mythology to pay attention to reality. [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/George_Washington_Greenough_statue.jpg/1200px-George_Washington_Greenough_statue.jpg[/t] A picture for reference. He looks more like Hercules than the president :v:[/QUOTE] Damn nigga [B]look at those fucking feet[/B].
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51880738]Hey, don't get me wrong, we used to have a pretty serious problem with predatory lending. That was a huge part of the great housing collapse in 2008. Thankfully, it's actually gotten much, much better since then. The Dodd-Frank Act, which established the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the Truth in Lending Act, the Real Estate Settlement and Procedures Act, and an expansion of statutory fiduciary responsibilities of financial service professionals all resulted in a MUCH more transparent, responsible, and consumer-friendly financial services market for consumers. Predatory lending is not the same beast it once was, and your statement that it's just gotten worse and worse is objectively incorrect. [B]Granted[/B], that chump in the Whitehouse has promised to take a hatchet to these positive changes, primarily to benefit his own business empire. That would be disgusting and disastrous, no doubt, but things [I]have[/I] gotten much better. And, at the end of the day, even if he follows through on that promise, the "secret" to not being housepoor is to simply not buy a house you can't afford under mortgage terms that seek to exploit that. I'll make no excuses for predatory lenders, and I won't blame their victims for getting roped into bad deals by people that were supposed to be looking out for their best interests, but financial responsibility ultimately falls on your own shoulders. Nobody can force you to buy an overpriced house, and not all homes are overpriced. Examine your finances, consult with trustworthy financial institutions to determine what you can realistically and comfortably afford, and determine what kind of budget works for you. Then, seek out the markets that best fit your financial abilities, and narrow them down into the homes that will best suit your needs. As for the inflation, as I've explained in other threads, we [I]are[/I] at the peak of the most inflated housing market in US history. That's a given. BUT, there are two things that make homeownership a very real possibility for anybody pulling in a basic income, now and in the future: 1) Real estate markets are incredibly local. Just because even bottom-of-the-barrel homes in San Francisco [I]start[/I] at about $300k does not mean that the same conditions are true throughout the country. If you [I]choose[/I] to live in an absurdly inflated area, that's your prerogative. Maybe it's worth it for you, and if so, then don't let me talk you out of it. However, there are cities throughout the US where the cost of living is much, [I]much[/I] more affordable. 2) This [B]is[/B] the peak, or very near the peak, of the inflated market. While our momentum may carry us through for another year, a major reversal is on the horizon. Property values [I]will[/I] decline substantially, and the deflated conditions will very likely persist for at least 3-4 years, giving a nice window for any future shoppers. That said, if you don't ever want to home, then don't own a home. Your reasoning is just a bit melodramatic imo, though.[/QUOTE] I am aware of the protections that are afforded by Dodd-Frank, but I don't have much faith that such a "progressive" initiative will survive this administration. I literally am on the cusp of graduation with a BA in English Literature and Trump's educational appointees' promises (and stated beliefs) to essentially decimate the federal grants, scholarships, and loans which would allow me to "afford" to pursue a master's degree have scared me off of applying for continued education. That's not to mention the implications his already enacted cuts to the fields of the Arts have for my field in this country in the next four years, or even decade depending on how extensive the ramifications of this celebrity dud's fucked up policies are. What is the point of entering a master's program now when the present administration promises to decimate the benefits allowing me to go there during my time there, other than to take a massive risk for acquiring substantial (and indelible) federal debt with the added perk of not being able to afford to complete my degree? Instead of starting this Fall at UC Berkley or Santa Cruz, I will be seeking employment and potentially leaving the state if things truly prove as hopeless as the media considers my region to be. *edit - revised to master's because it is pretty presumptive to refer to the degree after the one I was beginning as the one I was starting, but I honestly used to be optimistic enough to think of it that way.
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;51880776]I am aware of the protections that are afforded by Dodd-Frank, but I don't have much faith that such a "progressive" initiative will survive this administration. I literally am on the cusp of graduation with a BA in English Literature and Trump's educational appointees' promises (and stated beliefs) to essentially decimate the federal grants, scholarships, and loans which would allow me to "afford" a doctorate degree have scared me off of applying for continued education. That's not to mention the implications his already enacted cuts to the fields of the Arts have for my field in this country in the next four years, or even decade depending on how extensive the ramifications of this celebrity dud's fucked up policies are. What is the point of entering a doctoral program now when the present administration promises to decimate the benefits allowing me to go there during my time there, other than to take a massive risk for acquiring substantial (and indelible) federal debt with the added perk of not being able to afford to complete my degree?[/QUOTE] Well, I definitely share your anxiety on that front. There are lot of things about Trump that very deeply concern me, but the long term ramifications of his economic policy are perhaps what I'm most worried about. Things aren't going to get any easier for us at the bottom rungs of the economic ladder.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51880790]Well, I definitely share your anxiety on that front. There are lot of things about Trump that very deeply concern me, but the long term ramifications of his economic policy are perhaps what I'm most worried about. Things aren't going to get any easier for us at the bottom rungs of the economic ladder.[/QUOTE] Especially the ones who were hoping to rely on the existing bottom rungs to try and develop the credentials to get a career centered around building and reinforcing rungs before the ones they needed were destroyed by pretentious fucks at the top who can no longer see the point of having them anymore, or the bottom half of the ladder for that matter for how detached from reality they have become. It is hard not to be a little melodramatic when the already flawed present you were hoping to build a future improving is being waved around over a fire before your eyes, along with your means of getting to the future you were planning for. I was kind of counting on my employers not having the right to discriminate against me based on religious principles, but it appears the tables may be turning.
Young people in previous generation weren't treated to these evil as fuck partisan dickheads. Conservatives used to have class and have people who would work for the greater good. I've only turned just turned 22 but I've developed a deep hatred for conservatism. I honestly could never see myself becoming one after all the shit that's been done.
[QUOTE=Fapplejack;51880761]Damn nigga [B]look at those fucking feet[/B].[/QUOTE] His long-ass stompers provide god's speed; which is necessary to allow George Hermes Washington an easy voyage from sea to shining sea.
[QUOTE=New Cidem;51880614]Every new generation will be more and more progressive until there's no more progress to be made. That's life, baby. Get used to it.[/QUOTE] Each generation will be different to the next, but they won't necessarily be more progressive than the last. I think one of the things lots of people forget is that progress is fragile, and is only as strong as the people who support it. You have to fight for it, and you have to nuture it. Otherwise it won't exist.
How many of those shitheads have ever actually fought for freedom. "Go look at a monument" fuck off.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;51880826]Each generation will be different to the next, but they won't necessarily be more progressive than the last. I think one of the things lots of people forget is that progress is fragile, and is only as strong as the people who support it. You have to fight for it, and you have to nuture it. Otherwise it won't exist.[/QUOTE] It is truly a fallacy that progress is indelible. That people still espouse it as truth is just evidence that they have been cultured to readily dismiss the rest of the world (and all of its history) as unworthy of knowing and of no consequence to the future they envision, using no science and a sample of one; their dogmatic belief that what they perceive to be reality in fact encompasses all of the nuance of reality itself.
Minllenials are so spoiled. Our great president had to make do with a small loan of just a million dollars to get his huge business empire started and look where he is now! What do kids today get? Everything.
It feels like a lot of these people in the article have no idea what capitalism or socialism mean.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;51880925]It feels like a lot of these people in the article have no idea what capitalism or socialism mean.[/QUOTE] It reads very much like people who are simply out of touch with the young people they are trying to reach. The guy talking about the monuments especially. It shows that the "ivory tower liberal" mentality and Democratic arrogance extends across the aisle to the right as well. As far as this next generation, it looks pretty dire. Most of the younger folks I know are focusing on surviving on their own right now, working two part-time jobs to pay for rent if they are even able to move out of their parents house. The idea of starting a family, going to school, or starting a small business isn't even close to reality for a lot of kids I know. As bad as millennials have it, the next generation is going to have it even harder.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;51880925]It feels like a lot of these people in the article have no idea what capitalism or socialism mean.[/QUOTE] That is very much the case. Conservatives made sure the word "socialist" was a dirty one for fear of people realising the new healthcare system Nixon introduced was a money making scheme.
"Conservatism is the new counterculture, guys. We have fight against these special snowflakes that are dominating our college campuses and remind these crybabies that Trump is their fuckin' president!!!" I remember meeting these group of students on my campus and told me if I was interested to sign up. I simply told them what of political agenda they were pushing and told me they weren't and just wanted protect first amendment rights. I said okay and signed up anyways. Later received an email stating that the group "believe that government is too big, free people and free markets make everyone’s life better, and both sides are to blame for the corruption and dysfunction happening on every level of government." Yeah, they were pushing an agenda, not surprised. Anyways, I get another email about one of their meeting: [QUOTE]Look forward to being in a room full of free-marketeers--take a break from communist professors and socialist [del]sheep[/del] peers. This Meeting's Agenda: Standing at a booth loaded with literature might have worked back when the national pastime included reading Moby Dick. Unfortunately for our modern counter parts, with 7-second-vine attention spans, a few sentences read is a few sentences too long. That's where you come in! We need help brainstorming events that will capture the public's attention. If you can think of ANY event that might provoke free market ideas let us know. [/QUOTE] It speaks for itself. I was actually considering going to one those meeting for curiosity stake but I just didn't have the time. If I ever did, I'll just sit in the corner just to watch how this shitshow folds out. Here's the most recent email I received from them if want to see the type of rhetoric they're pushing: [QUOTE]Our planned debate with Allied Students for Another Politics is approaching finality. Help us flesh out free-market arguments in opposition to their communist stance. We are still deciding on the details of our next big table event. Commensurate with the the apathy of the public, we may end up going outrageous and involve the ISIS flag in some negative manner. Help us plan this out. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Swiket;51880659]young people will warm up to capitalism when they see their friends and family members lose their health care[/QUOTE] [quote]“... And these children that you spit on as they try to change their worlds are immune to your consultations. They're quite aware of what they're going through...” [/quote] David Bowie, 'Changes', 1971.
Young progressives get called idealistic. Socialism doesn't work - history proves it! And then Brownback runs Kansas into the ground on "don't tax the job creators" rhetoric, Scott Walker tears apart the education system in Wisconsin, and we still see, time and time again, that supply-side Reaganomics [I]simply doesn't fucking work[/I]. And yet the [I]critics[/I] are the idealists. They're the lazy good-for-nothing socialists wanting free handouts. Far-right political and economic ideology? That's what made America great. It definitely wasn't the rest of the developed world crumbling from two world wars. It definitely had nothing to do with FDR's social programs. It was [I]always[/I] an anarcho-capitalistic society free of all environmental regulations where the only acceptable type of government employment was a freedom fighting army man. [I]That[/I] is being an ideologue. [I]That[/I] is being idealistic - obsessively overconfident in your ideology, unwilling to compromise or listen to criticism and adapt. It's idiocy. Irrational, thick-headed dumbassery. I'm not calling for a communist revolution, I don't want an American Lenin, I just want people to be willing to look at the issues and use their fucking brains to figure out how we could adapt to fix those issues. To me, that solution seems like social democracy. Somehow, against all evidence, based on nothing but Friedman and overconfidence that neoclassical economics is the be-all-end-all of society, conservatives have reached the opposite conclusion. I used to be very accepting of different economic opinions, so long as different groups operated as loyal opposition and acted in a civil way, but I've reached a point where it's so fucking plainly obvious that American conservative economic ideology doesn't want to respond to criticism or even address flaws. It's right, always has been, and always will be - you're a commie if you think otherwise and you're wrong.
It doesn't help that many of us came of age just in time to see us bail out the banks for fucking over the entire world in the name of greed. If we were truly Capitalist, we would have told them "You fucked up, your fortune is gone and you have nobody to blame but yourself". And that'd be letting them off lightly, they should be trialed. But we did the worst thing we could do, we took money from the citizens of America and we gave it to them and told them "just don't do that again okay". And now look where the fuck we are, Republicans are currently working at repealing the restrictions put in place after 2008 because "it gets in the way of making money". [i]I fucking wonder why millennials are losing faith in Capitalism.[/i]
Yeah, sorry about that, we're tired of being unable to afford things we should have easy, affordable access to(Healthcare, education), we're tired of civil rights being stamped out, of discrimination, of prohibition filling our jails with nonviolent offenders. I don't consider myself left leaning or right leaning(My opinions on firearm ownership, for example, are so far right it's one step before state subsidized ammo in every household, and I'm not exactly a tree hugger either), but on a lot of the major issues currently being debated, I'm pretty left about it all. And for good reason. Because these issues just don't make sense to lean right on.
Man, its almost like when you serve almost exclusively moneyed interests, and seek to remove provisions that somewhat fix problems we previously had that will effect the next generation WAY more than old folks that will probably be dead before shit hits the fan, they wont be particularly fond of your ideology. Bonus points if you act like a smug holier than thou douche too: people are super receptive to that.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;51881101]It doesn't help that many of us came of age just in time to see us bail out the banks for fucking over the entire world in the name of greed.[/QUOTE] It's like over here we had some general saying "Millennials are too self interested to join the army". Sure, nothing to do with the fact that the most recent conflict we spearheaded was the grand scale bedshitting in the middle east.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;51880826]Each generation will be different to the next, but they won't necessarily be more progressive than the last. I think one of the things lots of people forget is that progress is fragile, and is only as strong as the people who support it. You have to fight for it, and you have to nuture it. Otherwise it won't exist.[/QUOTE] it's funny, this is a thread about conservative Baby Boomer dirtbags who probably benefited the most from the New Deal, yet people still act like progress is an indelible thing
Many liberals also have contempt for millennials, people like Bill Maher frequently chastises them for not supporting Hillary strongly enough. [QUOTE=New Cidem;51880614]Every new generation will be more and more progressive until there's no more progress to be made. That's life, baby. Get used to it.[/QUOTE] This just sounds like such wishful thinking to me. You can't really say that any outcomes and developments when it comes to historically fickle humanity are inevitable/permanent unless you believe in some sort of interventionist God. (Which I do, but I don't know if he cares much about issues like Gay Marriage and so on.)
fuck them, ive seen this system up close, i have had 1500$ medicine bills, been fucked around with insurance companies, have a large student loan burning up my earnings and have seen the cycle of poverty up close fuck anyone who says millenials are lazy, we are working our asses off in a society that doesn't care about mobility or equality anymore as long as we maintain this fucked up ideology of absolute freedom to business oh lets not even get started on global warming which will cause my end of life to be a god damn biblical event since you slimy fucks don't believe in it and will be long dead before the entire east coast is under water and most species die off
Shirt should say "We don't know what socialism is so we just bash it because the soviets or whatever."
[QUOTE=HappyCompy;51880668]I'm telling you my man, try having a serious policy debate with a conservative Republican. This is the party of dog whistles, the War in Iraq, only rich people should have healthcare, the poor have too much money, illegals are the biggest problem the country faces, Obama is a Muslim, and now, Trump. I can't make this stuff up.[/QUOTE] I shit you not my father thinks having healthcare is a part of the right to happiness and you should have it only if you want it, other people shpuldn't pay for you, etc. I've resigned myself to either owning a trailer or maybe owning a tinyhouse one day. Boomers are spoiled. They had a booming economy thanks to being none of the few nations to not be fucked up after WW2 and no globalization to take away jobs with wages having much higher purchasing power.
[QUOTE=Whoaly;51881183]Many liberals also have contempt for millennials, people like Bill Maher frequently chastises them for not supporting Hillary strongly enough. [/quote] I sorta feel the same, not contempt but certainly a concern. Too idealistic with romantic notions of revolution and "quick fixes" and all this stuff about people not being able to tell jokes or jumping on a cause (albeit it a good cause) and over zealously taking it to nonsense extremes. (I believe racism is a big issue but attack white guys with dreadlocks aint gonna do shit). "Never Hillary!" when the alternative is (depending on what you judge by eg corruption, civil rights, economy, healthcare) far worse. Not so much a millennial issue though, see people like Jeremy Corbyn. Hearts in the right place and he's fighting the good fight but he's going about it the wrong way. Instead of taking time and getting small changes, he wants (and his supporters want) everything at once, consequence: they'll get nothing. JC seems to jump on whatever idea or cause is suggested to him because it seems like a good idea, on the surface it looks like it helps but closer inspection reveals its unworkable, or worse, foolhardy. (see the banning afterwork drinks rubbish) [quote] This just sounds like such wishful thinking to me. You can't really say that any outcomes and developments when it comes to historically fickle humanity are inevitable/permanent unless you believe in some sort of interventionist God. (Which I do, but I don't know if he cares much about issues like Gay Marriage and so on.)[/QUOTE] I think the "progression" thing is the progression toward liberalism/humanism, an idealism which America was founded on (at least in theory). It's not that reactionaries and conservatives are some dinosaur soon to be extinct, its more that "the ship" American (and western in general) society has set its course, it's destination, a thing to strive toward; whether they ever get there is up for debate. Also comparing it to god with the hope that atheists and skeptics will recoil in horror seems like a bit of a false equivalence.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;51880826]Each generation will be different to the next, but they won't necessarily be more progressive than the last. I think one of the things lots of people forget is that progress is fragile, and is only as strong as the people who support it. You have to fight for it, and you have to nuture it. Otherwise it won't exist.[/QUOTE] There's also the fact that many of the people who are currently conservative are likely so due to influence from their own cliques made up of friends and family, and that no amount of reasonable discussion, facts, etc., will ever convince them that anything else could possibly be better. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=The cheese;51881158]It's like over here we had some general saying "Millennials are too self interested to join the army". Sure, nothing to do with the fact that the most recent conflict we spearheaded was the grand scale bedshitting in the middle east.[/QUOTE] Good lord, what if THAT'S their goal? To make the job market so shit/lacking that people are forced to join the military just to get a job/education? :tinfoil:
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