• CPAC: Conservatives fear generational shift to the left, call Millennials "spoiled"
    315 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51883730]Okay, example time. My dad was a wonderful lawyer. He had a storied and very interesting and relatively groundbreaking past with his career. He also raised a kid from the time he was 18, in the 1960's, went to school, had more kids, and then moved to a different province to start a career. So he had a storied past and a lot of respect. For the last 20 odd years he ran a private law firm, that was quite successful. He was a wildly generous person and treated many people with respect and did somethings for free when he really didn't have to. This law firm was doing quite well and was poised to last for a good while even without my father. He died. The firm fell apart. Things do not always go to plan and acting like there's a magic bullet to lifes problems is ignorant. Some people fall through the cracks and shit falls apart for them.[/QUOTE] What I get from this is that your father was a successful man, and he died a successful man. I applaud him, but I also fail to see how it applies to your point since it seems his firm falling apart in his absence is something that's natural if nobody taking his spot could run it effectively.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51883748]I understand it can be hard for certain people due to factors outside of their control, but it's still doable. Really all I have to say is a saying everyone should learn: [b]Have your money make you money[/b] Working nonstop to live a mediocre life is a dumb way to live - I'm sorry but that's the truth. Invest. Whether that's in housing, stocks, or whatever else, just do it. You can work too to supplement that income.[/QUOTE] Yes, of course people do this. You are not actually a source of much information in this regard what so ever. "Make your money work for you" is one of the oldest things in terms of financial advice, but it generally speaking, can take capital to get there. There are tricks to get around this, but it is not nearly as universal as you act, and will insist in response to this.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51883748]I understand it can be hard for certain people due to factors outside of their control, but it's still doable. Really all I have to say is a saying everyone should learn: [b]Have your money make you money[/b] Working nonstop to live a mediocre life is a dumb way to live - I'm sorry but that's the truth. Invest. Whether that's in housing, stocks, or whatever else, just do it. You can work too to supplement that income.[/QUOTE] so how is this any different from more bootstraps then? Everything that has the potential to win big also has the potential to make you [b]lose big.[/b] Gambles can pay off or they can fail terribly and leave you worse off than you already are. You're simplifying things again by saying "work some more and you'll definitely win."
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51883730]Okay, example time. My dad was a wonderful lawyer. He had a storied and very interesting and relatively groundbreaking past with his career. He also raised a kid from the time he was 18, in the 1960's, went to school, had more kids, and then moved to a different province to start a career. So he had a storied past and a lot of respect. For the last 20 odd years he ran a private law firm, that was quite successful. He was a wildly generous person and treated many people with respect and did somethings for free when he really didn't have to. This law firm was doing quite well and was poised to last for a good while even without my father. He died. The firm fell apart. Things do not always go to plan and acting like there's a magic bullet to lifes problems is ignorant. Some people fall through the cracks and shit falls apart for them.[/QUOTE] Was the firm not incorporated?
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51883751]What I get from this is that your father was a successful man, and he died a successful man. I applaud him, but I also fail to see how it applies to your point since it seems his firm falling apart in his absence is something that's natural if nobody taking his spot could run it effectively.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]and was poised to last for a good while even without my father.[/QUOTE] No reading is hard isn't it But he had set it up so it would run without him. It did not because plans do not always work out.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51883748]I understand it can be hard for certain people due to factors outside of their control, but it's still doable. Really all I have to say is a saying everyone should learn: [b]Have your money make you money[/b] Working nonstop to live a mediocre life is a dumb way to live - I'm sorry but that's the truth. Invest. Whether that's in housing, stocks, or whatever else, just do it. You can work too to supplement that income.[/QUOTE] Let me ask you a simple question: do you think if everyone (not anyone, but everyone at once) took this advice, that everyone would become rich?
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51883465]Ok, now tell me how many people get a job like this and how many scrape by on minimum wage in two jobs. What's this I hear? you say there are lots of people who make loads of money again?[/QUOTE] Perhaps those people should have planned ahead, maybe they should move to an area with jobs that fit their skillset or even start a business. There's opportunity everywhere but most people are stuck in their little shells too ignorant, scared or lazy to go get it. [QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;51883505]A job with 6 digit salary isn't terribly difficult to achieve? Holy shit, we've established contact with a parallel universe. Either that or you're talking out of your ass.[/QUOTE] 20% of households in the US make over 100k a year, the average income in the US is about 57k. I wouldn't call it easy but it's definitely far from unachievable to the average person.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51883748]I understand it can be hard for certain people due to factors outside of their control, but it's still doable. Really all I have to say is a saying everyone should learn: [b]Have your money make you money[/b] Working nonstop to live a mediocre life is a dumb way to live - I'm sorry but that's the truth. Invest. Whether that's in housing, stocks, or whatever else, just do it. You can work too to supplement that income.[/QUOTE] Again you're making the same fault of applying your situation to everyone. Invest is good advice if it's available to you. It's not for a lot of people.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51883771]Was the firm not incorporated?[/QUOTE] It was. That is not a sure fire way to prevent a firm falling apart, but maybe you're also an expert in legal matters as well as everything else you have insisted so far in this thread
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51883748]I understand it can be hard for certain people due to factors outside of their control, but it's still doable. Really all I have to say is a saying everyone should learn: [b]Have your money make you money[/b] Working nonstop to live a mediocre life is a dumb way to live - I'm sorry but that's the truth. Invest. Whether that's in housing, stocks, or whatever else, just do it. You can work too to supplement that income.[/QUOTE] What if you don't have money to begin with? What if the only way you're going to be able to stay in a house is if you work two jobs, thus having no time for study? What if you've got other problems? Depression, OCD, maybe even just dyslexia? You can call these people stupid but I think that just makes you blind and ignorant of what others have gone through. EDIT: why do you think developed countries and many developing countries have things like the dole or social security?
[QUOTE=StonedPenguin;51883778]Perhaps those people should have planned ahead, maybe they should move to an area with jobs that fit their skillset or even start a business. There's opportunity everywhere but most people are stuck in their little shells too ignorant, scared or lazy to go get it. 20% of households in the US make over 100k a year, the average income in the US is about 57k. I wouldn't call it easy but it's definitely far from unbelievable to the average person.[/QUOTE] Right, just move or start a business, that doesn't take money or anything
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51883761]Yes, of course people do this. You are not actually a source of much information in this regard what so ever. "Make your money work for you" is one of the oldest things in terms of financial advice, but it generally speaking, can take capital to get there. There are tricks to get around this, but it is not nearly as universal as you act, and will insist in response to this.[/QUOTE] Of course it takes some initial capital. I think where most people fail is the inability to save when they are younger so they have this initial money to spend and invest in. [QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51883770]so how is this any different from more bootstraps then? Everything that has the potential to win big also has the potential to make you [b]lose big.[/b] Gambles can pay off or they can fail terribly and leave you worse off than you already are. You're simplifying things again by saying "work some more and you'll definitely win."[/QUOTE] Of course investments always carry a risk. More often than not you will recover though, generally this is where family comes in. It does suck but its well worth it.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51883780]It was. That is not a sure fire way to prevent a firm falling apart, but maybe you're also an expert in legal matters as well as everything else you have insisted so far in this thread[/QUOTE] These character analyses are getting out of hand, friend. It's [I]obvious[/I] that the firm [I]wasn't[/I] poised to run smoothly without him, because it [I]obviously[/I] didn't.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51883794]\Of course investments always carry a risk. More often than not you will recover though, generally this is where family comes in. It does suck but its well worth it.[/QUOTE] It sucks that "privilege" has become an identity politics term because this is a prime example of someone not understanding their privilege
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51883796]These character analyses are getting out of hand, friend. It's [I]obvious[/I] that the firm [I]wasn't[/I] poised to run smoothly without him, because it [I]obviously[/I] didn't.[/QUOTE] Now you're just being disrespectful to someone who would know a hell of a lot more about his father's business than you would.
[QUOTE=StonedPenguin;51883778]Perhaps those people should have planned ahead, maybe they should move to an area with jobs that fit their skillset or even start a business. There's opportunity everywhere but most people are stuck in their little shells too ignorant, scared or lazy to go get it. 20% of households in the US make over 100k a year, the average income in the US is about 57k. I wouldn't call it easy but it's definitely far from unachievable to the average person.[/QUOTE] You're basically saying that we need to keep rapidly creating and popping bubbles, kewl. [sp]i was being a dick with this part but yeah, the US does have a problem of people NOT moving, but to answer all problems of poverty and whatnot with "just move" is pretty problematic for that reason[/sp] Also, average income is really not a good way to gauge what the average working class person earns. To earn the amount you gave you are already up into the 75th percentile or so. 100k puts you into the 90th percentile
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51883809]Now you're just being disrespectful to someone who would know a hell of a lot more about his father's business than you would.[/QUOTE] It's okay, he's been disrespectful to any opposition to his point this whole time. *Sorry
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51882800]Because turning $1 million into $3.7 billion is the easiest feat to achieve.[/QUOTE] If I had a million dollars when I started investing in the stock market in my first year I'd have made over $2 million in return for reference, but saying I could pull over 100% every year would place my head so far up my own ass we're not even going to say that's a realistic figure. So if I instead invested in an even "safer" way, in the dow method or the dogs of the dow method, I'd see an average annual return of 6.9% or 7.9% respectively. If you take a conservative 7% annual return that's 70k a year for doing literally nothing the first year. It's easy as shit to turn money into more money if you're even remotely smart. Also 1 million in 1979 is actually $3,324,421.49 if you account for inflation. We can back inflate that 3.7 billion to 1979 and it's only about 1.113 billion, so our math can be done on a 1 million to 1.113 billion rank instead of 3.3 mil to 3.7bil. This is if you believe the stupid as fuck lie that was a "measly 1 million loan*", then Trump only gained a 1000% return over 38 years, which if you took 38 years of the safest investment profile, the dow method, you'd be sitting at 266%, so literally doing nothing can net you over 25% of what Trump claims he is worth with his "measly million loan and that's all I ever got" figures, which aren't true anyway but you know, whatever. * [url]http://fortune.com/2016/09/26/presidential-debate-donald-trump-business/[/url] * [url]https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-father-helped-gop-candidate-with-numerous-loans-1474656573[/url]
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51883383]I like what this thread has degraded into. :smug: Why wouldn't you applaud someone who found a way to work around taxes without being thrown in jail? I wish I could. Let's be real, even if not a good president, Trump [I]is[/I] a smart man.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't really credit Trump with that achievement so much as I would his army of accountants.
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51883817]It's okay, you've been disrespectful to any opposition to your point this whole time.[/QUOTE] I thought you wanted to hear what I said? I feel I've been very respectful. I've tried to calmly explain my point. I'm only saying you're being disrespectful because you're telling someone how their personal history actually went. Considering neither of you seem to know each other super well, I'd call that wrong and disrespectful.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51883834]I thought you wanted to hear what I said? I feel I've been very respectful. I've tried to calmly explain my point. I'm only saying you're being disrespectful because you're telling someone how their personal history actually went. Considering neither of you seem to know each other super well, I'd call that wrong and disrespectful.[/QUOTE] I apologize, I quoted it as though he posted the reply, not you.
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51883842]I apologize, I quoted it as though he posted the reply, not you.[/QUOTE] I'd like a reply to my other posts as well, and I think you should apologise to HumanAbyass instead considering what you said was rather rude, in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51882800]Because turning $1 million into $3.7 billion is the easiest feat to achieve.[/QUOTE] Adjusting for inflation, that million dollars today would have been worth approximately seven million dollars, and it's far from his only leg up. He not only got the equivalent of seven million bucks in seed money from his pa, he [I]also[/I] inherited a fully established, profitable, and respected real estate development company, along with a full cadre of expert advisers with decades of experience. You would basically have to [B]try[/B] to fail at that point not to grow your wealth. There is legitimate cause to believe that Trump's fortune would have grown even more than it has if he had simply stepped out of the picture and let his people and consultants invest it on his behalf. If you gave me seven million dollars, I'm pretty fuckin' confident that I, too, could turn it into a vast fortune given enough time -- and that's [I]without[/I] already having the business network and resources in my pockets.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51883858]Adjusting for inflation, that million dollars today would have been worth approximately seven million dollars, and it's far from his only leg up. He not only got the equivalent of seven million bucks in seed money in his pocket, he [I]also[/I] inherited a fully established, profitable, and respected real estate development company, along with a full cadre of expert advisers with decades of experience. You would basically have to [B]try[/B] to fail at that point. If you gave me seven million dollars, I'm pretty fuckin' confident that I, too, could turn it into a vast fortune given enough time -- and that's [I]without[/I] already having the business network and resources in my pockets.[/QUOTE] Apparently pointing that out falls on deaf ears [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=KingofBeast;51883817]It's okay, he's been disrespectful to any opposition to his point this whole time. *Sorry[/QUOTE] You have maintained that your info about trump has been correct without accepting that your info on him was wrong. I'm not going to just accept that you live in a different reality from us
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51883858]Adjusting for inflation, that million dollars today would have been worth approximately seven million dollars, and it's far from his only leg up. He not only got the equivalent of seven million bucks in seed money in his pocket, he [I]also[/I] inherited a fully established, profitable, and respected real estate development company, along with a full cadre of expert advisers with decades of experience. You would basically have to [B]try[/B] to fail at that point. If you gave me seven million dollars, I'm pretty fuckin' confident that I, too, could turn it into a vast fortune given enough time -- and that's [I]without[/I] already having the business network and resources in my pockets.[/QUOTE] You're right, but I'm curious where you got 7 million from since everywhere I've done calculations it came up with significantly less. The BLS is only giving me about 3.4 million rounded at best.
Nice to see the CPAC insulting the voters just like Hillary
[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;51883869]You're right, but I'm curious where you got 7 million from since everywhere I've done calculations it came up with significantly less. The BLS is only giving me about 3.4 million rounded at best.[/QUOTE] I think you've got some bad info there. [url]http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/26/politics/donald-trump-small-loan-town-hall/[/url] [quote]If Trump's father made the loan in 1968, the year his son graduated from the University of Pennsylvania, that $1 million would be worth $6.8 million in today's dollars, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Consumer Price Index inflation calculator.[/quote] Here is a link to an inflation calculator that uses BLS data, too: [url]https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1000000&year1=1968&year2=2017[/url] That actually shows a slightly higher figure, at $6.9m. That wasn't the only money he got either, of course: [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/03/trumps-false-claim-he-built-his-empire-with-a-small-loan-from-his-father/?utm_term=.180875bd9803[/url] [quote]Trump also benefited from three trusts that had been set up for family members. In 1976, Fred Trump set up eight $1 million trusts, one each for his five children and three grandchildren, according to the casino document. (That today would be worth about $4 million in inflation-adjusted dollars.) The 1976 Trust paid Trump $19,000 in 1977, $47,200 in 1978, $70,000 in 1979, $90,000 in 1980 and $214,605 in 1981. Trump also received about $12,000 a year from a 1949 trust set up by his father and nearly $2,000 a year from another 1949 trust created by his grandmother. He also received a $6,000 gift every December from his parents.[/quote]
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51883783]What if you don't have money to begin with? What if the only way you're going to be able to stay in a house is if you work two jobs, thus having no time for study? What if you've got other problems? Depression, OCD, maybe even just dyslexia? You can call these people stupid but I think that just makes you blind and ignorant of what others have gone through. EDIT: why do you think developed countries and many developing countries have things like the dole or social security?[/QUOTE] One thing that could alleviate your first and second point is having friends that would be willing to split rent instead of you having to support yourself solely. That relies on the assumption that you have said friends but it gets you somewhere. Otherwise housing programs a lot of the time can pay a large amount and even all of your rent for you depending on your situation. Then you could have the time and resources to focus on better forms of income than minimum wage jobs. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51883862]You have maintained that your info about trump has been correct without accepting that your info on him was wrong. I'm not going to just accept that you live in a different reality from us[/QUOTE] My only claim was that some millions turned into some billions, you're making what I'm saying seem more complicated than it is.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;51883790]Right, just move or start a business, that doesn't take money or anything[/QUOTE] I started with $100 4 years ago when I was 16 and made 80k last year being self employed. I found my niche and stuck with it. It probably won't last forever by that's why I'm saving every penny I have for the future, to find the next thing I'm good at. Hard work pays off.
This thread is a riot. If only everyone just ran gmod servers there would be no poor people in the world :thinking:
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