• CPAC: Conservatives fear generational shift to the left, call Millennials "spoiled"
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[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51883891]One thing that could alleviate your first and second point is having friends that would be willing to split rent instead of you having to support yourself solely. That relies on the assumption that you have said friends but it gets you somewhere. Otherwise housing programs a lot of the time can pay a large amount and even all of your rent for you depending on your situation. Then you could have the time and resources to focus on better forms of income than minimum wage jobs.[/QUOTE] Can you name a housing program that takes the vast majority of the burden? Name one
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51883468]You must be ignorant to what a 19 year old with a GMod server can accomplish. It isn't hard, people are just lazy.[/QUOTE] Owning a GMod server at 19 [i]is[/i] lazy. That's the difference: some of us at 19 are going to school, getting an education, and learning valuable real-world skills so we can actually go out when we graduate and do something productive with our lives for both ourselves and for the benefit of society as well. We become doctors, surgeons, nurses, psychiatrists and psychologists, scientists, teachers and educators, engineers, chemists, social workers, maintenance workers and manufacturers, whatever. Our lives don't revolve around video games, because we grew up and wanted to amount to something in the world. That, and more often than not it's also a matter of necessity. You have to have an actual job with marketable skills that will guarantee some sort of long-term employment, preferably one that has a history behind it which others can look at and say, "This person has a significant, meaningful existence. They're an asset in the majority of situations, not a liability." This is exactly why, with the exception of educational channels that produce high-quality content, I don't bother disabling my adblocker or donating to YouTubers. That's not a real job, you contribute nothing worthwhile to society, and your life has no value. Do something with yourself that actually matters.
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51883891]One thing that could alleviate your first and second point is having friends that would be willing to split rent instead of you having to support yourself solely. That relies on the assumption that you have said friends but it gets you somewhere. Otherwise housing programs a lot of the time can pay a large amount and even all of your rent for you depending on your situation. Then you could have the time and resources to focus on better forms of income than minimum wage jobs.[/QUOTE] Those are assumptions and not solutions. Nor are people always willing to split their money. My ultimate point is (and I feel the need to make this as I'm eventually going to sleep and it feels this is going around in circles) that life is complicated and hard work does not always lead to success. Some of us are very privileged, whether we realise it or not, and thus that can contribute to our success. Sometimes it's just luck. Maybe sometimes it is just pure hard work. Circumstances can change or knock you down. So I wouldn't judge everyone the same.
[QUOTE=Govna;51883904]Owning a GMod server at 19 [i]is[/i] lazy. That's the difference: some of us at 19 are going to school, getting an education, and learning valuable real-world skills so we can actually go out when we graduate and do something productive with our lives for both ourselves and for the benefit of society as well. We become doctors, surgeons, nurses, psychiatrists and psychologists, scientists, teachers and educators, engineers, chemists, social workers, maintenance workers and manufacturers, whatever. Our lives don't revolve around video games, because we grew up and wanted to amount to something in the world. That, and more often than not it's also a matter of necessity. You have to have an actual job with marketable skills that will guarantee some sort of long-term employment, preferably one that has a history behind it which others can look at and say, "This person has a significant, meaningful existence. They're an asset in the majority of situations, not a liability." This is exactly why, with the exception of educational channels that produce high-quality content, I don't bother disabling my adblocker or donating to YouTubers. That's not a real job, you contribute nothing worthwhile to society, and your life has no value. Do something with yourself that actually matters.[/QUOTE]It's a real job if there's a demand you can fulfill and are able to gain income from it
[QUOTE=Govna;51883904]Owning a GMod server at 19 [i]is[/i] lazy. That's the difference: some of us at 19 are going to school, getting an education, and learning valuable real-world skills so we can actually go out when we graduate and do something productive with our lives for both ourselves and for the benefit of society as well. We become doctors, surgeons, nurses, psychiatrists and psychologists, scientists, teachers and educators, engineers, chemists, social workers, maintenance workers and manufacturers, whatever. Our lives don't revolve around video games, because we grew up and wanted to amount to something in the world. That, and more often than not it's also a matter of necessity. You have to have an actual job with marketable skills that will guarantee some sort of long-term employment, preferably one that has a history behind it which others can look at and say, "This person has a significant, meaningful existence. They're an asset in the majority of situations, not a liability." This is exactly why, with the exception of educational channels that produce high-quality content, I don't bother disabling my adblocker or donating to YouTubers. That's not a real job, you contribute nothing worthwhile to society, and your life has no value. Do something with yourself that actually matters.[/QUOTE] Oh jesus let's not go onto the whole "Youtube isn't a real job" shite. Entertainment IS a real job. Some do work harder at it, but still, if a person entertains you, even if they are just doing it for money, it is a real job. Just like actors, or singers, or whatever. Whether you realise it or not they are necessary to society because if you didn't notice some of us can't live without entertainment otherwise we'd be driven fucking mad! EDIT: god above, people have learned so much and been enlightened by pure works of fiction or entertainment. And even if they aren't, they at-least can usually come away with something positive in their lives!
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51883915]It's a real job if there's a demand you can fulfill and are able to gain income from it[/QUOTE] [quote]You have to have an actual job with marketable skills that will guarantee some sort of long-term employment, preferably one that has a history behind it which others can look at and say, "This person has a significant, meaningful existence. They're an asset in the majority of situations, not a liability."[/quote]
Does that not contradict you? A good entertainer is an asset. They draw people in and provide a service under certain terms, like showing advertisements and whatnot. Of course coming out of high school and working a youtube career (with no other training) might not be the best idea in the case of it suddenly not providing money. But uh, that applies for "real" jobs too. There's a whole lot of unemployable coal miners and factory workers out in the rust belt
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51883935]Does that not contradict you?[/QUOTE] No. It's a GMod server. We're not talking about something important. Like hexpunK said: [QUOTE=hexpunK;51883600]I wouldn't really call running servers a long lasting profession tbh. A lot of the GMod server hosts I've seen in my years of playing have either folded due to mismanagement/ being literal pedos. Failed due to potentially fraudulent reasons. Or just lived so long that they expanded into general server hosting. It's a very, very busy market where almost anyone can get in with zero effort thanks to reselling.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=thelurker1234;51883935]A good entertainer is an asset. They draw people in and provide a service under certain terms, like showing advertisements and whatnot.[/quote] They're also expendable, especially in this day and age where anybody and everybody who has Internet access can get in on the race for their fifteen minutes of fame. It's like anything else in economics: the more of something you have, the less valuable that something becomes. That's why you need to have some sort of credentials that set you apart from everybody else, and the more you have the better off you'll be. More education, more experience, more of an interesting background, etc. Otherwise, what makes you so important? Why can't we just get rid of you and find somebody else? There's certainly no shortage of alternatives, and there's bound to be somebody else out there who's just as good as you are if not better. People can complain about it all they want, but there is objectively a difference between somebody who plays video games for a living at 19 or 29 compared to somebody who is a doctor, an engineer, a good mechanic, a chemist or scientist, etc. They're not the same, whether we're talking about the education and background required to attain the latter examples, the physical contributions the latter examples actually give to the world, or the long-term employment prospects for the latter examples.
[QUOTE=StonedPenguin;51883894]I started with $100 4 years ago when I was 16 and made 80k last year being self employed. I found my niche and stuck with it. It probably won't last forever by that's why I'm saving every penny I have for the future, to find the next thing I'm good at. Hard work pays off.[/QUOTE] You don't have expenses when you're a kid living with your parents. This is exactly what I meant by "not recognizing your own privilege"
[QUOTE=Govna;51883971]No. It's a GMod server. We're not talking about something important. Like hexpunK said:[/QUOTE] Might not be important in the grand scheme of things but if people want to play there and they find it entertaining and get a kick of it, I'd consider that an alright job. Not the most financially secure, but it's something decent.
I dream of not having a "real job." It's my ultimate goal to build up a rental portfolio that pays for my lifestyle, so that I can make a living sitting on my ass. A lot of time, work, and planning will go into accomplishing that goal, but when I retire young and comfortable, I promise you the farthest thing from my mind will be anxiety over whether or not I have a "real job." So, like, what you personally define as a "real job" doesn't mean a damn thing in the "real world." What you call laziness, I call freedom. Why would I want to waste my time working for my money for my entire life, when I could have my money work for me and spend my life on things I actually want to do?
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51883537]You're all acting like 6 digits is something that's difficult to accomplish, meanwhile I just mentioned running GMod servers, one of the simplest things to do fundamentally, where the top servers are all making [I]at least[/I] $10k a month. [I]Young[/I] people, [I]dropouts[/I], spending a few hours a day if even that coding some shit and cashing out 24 hours a day. By no means am I a master of economics, but to imply it's hard to make money is a bit.. lazy, and if that makes me a "republicunt" then so be it, but at least I'm not forcing myself to work "two minimum wage jobs" because everything else is just [I]too hard[/I].[/QUOTE] please mentor me in the ways of server hosting so i don't have to spend 8 years in college and 4 years in the military to become a doctor
[QUOTE=Govna;51883971]No. It's a GMod server. We're not talking about something important. Like hexpunK said:[/QUOTE] That's subjective. It's a pretty heterodox job, but again, there's a demand, and people are stepping in to provide it. And actually I might call running a server more "Asset-like" than the entertainer shit. It can transition one into sysadmin work (see how he spake of general server hosting,) and provides lots of HR-type experience. Really all he pointed out is that it's a very low barrier, turbulent market with saturated supply meaning that it's not really something you should EXPECT a good, safe living out of. It doesn't mean you can't pull it off though.
[QUOTE=Govna;51883971]No. It's a GMod server. We're not talking about something important. Like hexpunK said:[/QUOTE] Who cares if it's important [I]to the world[/I]? If it's keeping the bills paid and letting him focus on the things that are [I]important to him[/I], then it sounds like he's being pretty resourceful. Good on him. Let's just hope he's being responsible and preparing for the day he no longer has that income stream.
[QUOTE=Govna;51883904]Owning a GMod server at 19 [I]is[/I] lazy. That's the difference: some of us at 19 are going to school, getting an education, and learning valuable real-world skills so we can actually go out when we graduate and do something productive with our lives for both ourselves and for the benefit of society as well. We become doctors, surgeons, nurses, psychiatrists and psychologists, scientists, teachers and educators, engineers, chemists, social workers, maintenance workers and manufacturers, whatever. Our lives don't revolve around video games, because we grew up and wanted to amount to something in the world. That, and more often than not it's also a matter of necessity. You have to have an actual job with marketable skills that will guarantee some sort of long-term employment, preferably one that has a history behind it which others can look at and say, "This person has a significant, meaningful existence. They're an asset in the majority of situations, not a liability." This is exactly why, with the exception of educational channels that produce high-quality content, I don't bother disabling my adblocker or donating to YouTubers. That's not a real job, you contribute nothing worthwhile to society, and your life has no value. Do something with yourself that actually matters.[/QUOTE] Sorry, you're right, learning to program while [I]making[/I] money is worse than [I]spending[/I] money to learn to program. It's [I]soo[/I] lazy. And it's definitely not a [I]marketable skill[/I] for the future!
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;51883973]You don't have expenses when you're a kid living with your parents. This is exactly what I meant by "not recognizing your own privilege"[/QUOTE] What does that have to do with taking very little and making it into something? Whether you're young, stuck working all day for shit pay or just simply underprivileged take what little you have and work to make something of it. When you fall on your ass don't use it as a reason to bitch about how it's impossible, learn from it and try again. As I said in my previous post there's opportunity everywhere and it's no ones fault but your own if you don't go out and take it.
if the server money runs dry at least you two can go on and be life coaches ?
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51884121]if the server money runs dry at least you two can go on and be life coaches ?[/QUOTE] Software developers, system admins, network administrators.. there's plenty of "real" jobs than benefit from the experience gained while developing and running servers.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51883890]I think you've got some bad info there. [url]http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/26/politics/donald-trump-small-loan-town-hall/[/url] Here is a link to an inflation calculator that uses BLS data, too: [url]https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1000000&year1=1968&year2=2017[/url] That actually shows a slightly higher figure, at $6.9m. That wasn't the only money he got either, of course: [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/03/trumps-false-claim-he-built-his-empire-with-a-small-loan-from-his-father/?utm_term=.180875bd9803[/url][/QUOTE] I found the error, see I was taking it based on 1979 inflation, your figure is using 1968. I may have bad information as I haven't been able to figure out when exactly Trump got his "1 million dollars" the closest I ever found was in 1979 his father wrote a 1 million trust to each of his kids, a trust which Trump did take from that year and years after, and that's the only 1 million figure I ever found. So yeah, acceptable variance seeing as the man, nor his campaign ever actually said when this "loan" happened. If we're talking 1968 dollars then holy shit I think my point just got even stronger than before. Back-inflation would say that Trump is only worth $530,227,846 in relation to his "1 million loan" or only about 530% increase in total capital since 1968 (49 years) if we eliminate base inflation from the equation. meaning his capital only grew by about 10.82% a year. Which is only 3% more than our Dow method investment from earlier. Basically you can literally make 70% of what Mr.Trump claims to have made just by knowing how to split your portfolio evenly across the Dow Jones Industrials.
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51884132]Software developers, system admins, network administrators.. there's plenty of "real" jobs than benefit from the experience gained while developing and running servers.[/QUOTE] i was joking about how you two have completely solved economics
of course it's possible to make money if you are rational and utilise it well the problem is that humans aren't rational and instead like to do other things besides dedicating themselves to making money
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51884105]Sorry, you're right, learning to program while [I]making[/I] money is worse than [I]spending[/I] money to learn to program. It's [I]soo[/I] lazy. And it's definitely not a [I]marketable skill[/I] for the future![/QUOTE] Several problems for you: 1) Apparently you haven't gone to college nor have you got any official credentials proving you know what you're doing or that you have past educational experience in your field. The thing about the United States is that people without pieces of paper in general don't get very far when it comes to having a career, especially in technical areas. Most employers aren't going to waste their time with somebody who hasn't proven themselves by going to school, getting internships and recommendations by professionals, etc. An exception might be if you've proven yourself to be brilliant at what you do, but based off your comments about how people who aren't raking in six-digit paychecks are just "lazy", I very much doubt you're brilliant (or at least you have a pitiful understanding of the real world, economics and the job market, etc.). 2) It's a GMod server with its own forum. You haven't started an important company on your own. You also don't work for Google or some other well-known/established business. 3) As far as any of us can tell based off of the course of this conversation, there's nothing particularly special or important about you that distinguishes you from the millions of other programmers there are in the United States and around the world. What reason would an employer have to select you over somebody else?
[QUOTE=Govna;51884219]Several problems for you: 1) Apparently you haven't gone to college nor have you got any official credentials proving you know what you're doing or that you have past educational experience in your field. The thing about the United States is that people without pieces of paper in general don't get very far when it comes to having a career, especially in technical areas. Most employers aren't going to waste their time with somebody who hasn't proven themselves by going to school, getting internships and recommendations by professionals, etc. An exception might be if you've proven yourself to be brilliant at what you do, but based off your comments about how people who aren't raking in six-digit paychecks are just "lazy", I very much doubt you're brilliant (or at least you have a pitiful understanding of the real world, economics and the job market, etc.). 2) It's a GMod server with its own forum. You haven't started an important company on your own. You also don't work for Google or some other well-known/established business. 3) As far as any of us can tell based off of the course of this conversation, there's nothing particularly special or important about you that distinguishes you from the millions of other programmers there are in the United States and around the world. What reason would an employer have to select you over somebody else?[/QUOTE] It has provable income history, therefore I have bought a home on it (that seemed to be a big complaint on the first page of this thread) as well as a sports car. It works on resumes, therefore in addition to servers I have a full time job as a system admin for the extra easy money. It teaches valuable technical skills (programming) where most large companies will substitute a degree for actual proof that you know how to do it.
I just love how the trend is: the more well off you are financially, the more conservative/right-wing you are. The trend reeks of "I got mine, so fuck you" mentality. There's exceptions, of course.
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51884238]It has provable income history, therefore I have bought a home on it (that seemed to be a big complaint on the first page of this thread) as well as a sports car. It works on resumes, therefore in addition to servers I have a full time job as a system admin for the extra easy money. It teaches valuable technical skills (programming) where most large companies will substitute a degree for actual proof that you know how to do it.[/QUOTE] At this current stage in time with how cutting edge computer science and technical management is, making a job/portfolio of independent work is still an extremely viable option, but there will hit a point where coding vs programming will start to see a larger rift. There are a lot of higher end technical jobs that will start to, and already do require a college education to solidify concepts that don't usually come naturally from self-interest like automata and graph theory, which are starting to see more light as research in the technical field becomes respected. This is all looking into the future, though, and there will always be a way to sustain a lifestyle in any profession by appealing to lower level/niche markets. It will be a lot more volatile and unsafe than the traditional college education and internship routes, but the payoffs can be greater -- it's always gamble regardless of career path. Sorry for the far derailing from the topic :x [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=HappyCompy;51884263]I just love how the trend is: the more well off you are financially, the more conservative/right-wing you are. The trend reeks of "I got mine, so fuck you" mentality. There's exceptions, of course.[/QUOTE] People are always going to look out for there own self interests, no matter how generous they are or how they value money and property personally. It's just a fact of life and natural human desire. That doesn't necessarily make it a "fuck everyone else" mentality, but rather a normal sentiment to care for oneself and their family.
[QUOTE=HappyCompy;51884263]I just love how the trend is: the more well off you are financially, the more conservative/right-wing you are. The trend reeks of "I got mine, so fuck you" mentality. There's exceptions, of course.[/QUOTE] I disagree with it being "I got mine, so fuck you." Aside from some ofc I think it's more that when you have more to lose, the more cautious you are of change and you are led to believe that the current state of affairs is good, or at least the best possible. It's subjectivity biasing you. And it goes the other way, one of marx's rallying cries was literally that the workers have nothing to lose but their chains. although i guess i might have just repeated you but in a much nicer way. it's something everyone grapples with though, it just manifests differently here.
[QUOTE=code_gs;51884270]People are always going to look out for there own self interests[/QUOTE] you're naively optimistic about this axiom
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51884281]I disagree with it being "I got mine, so fuck you." Aside from some ofc I think it's more that when you have more to lose, the more cautious you are of change and you are led to believe that the current state of affairs is good, or at least the best possible. It's subjectivity biasing you. And it goes the other way, one of marx's rallying cries was literally that the workers have nothing to lose but their chains. although i guess i might have just repeated you but in a much nicer way. it's something everyone grapples with though, it just manifests differently here.[/QUOTE] Oh absolutely I am well aware of this being a common trans generational phenomenon, I was merely drawing attention to it. We have to confront our own biases and baser instincts often in order to create a more perfect society. Racism is a great example of this, because according to studies everyone in inherently racist (when shown pictures of people who look different than you the fear part of the brain lights up, however staring at the image longer allows the logical part of the brain to kick in and tone it down). All of that said, I agree with everything you've said. Basically, I see it the same way people in this thread view social progress: it's not a guarantee or an inevitability that progress will occur, it's an ongoing struggle that you have to participate in in order to make progress a reality. On that front I disagree with Marx's belief that proletarian revolution and the fall of the bourgeoisie are inevitable.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51884308]you're naively optimistic about this axiom[/QUOTE] It's pretty unbalanced, if anything. There are strong theories in psychology that suggest [URL="http://www.iep.utm.edu/psychego/"]all human behaviour is motivated by self interest[/URL] and acts of kindness are just means of reaching some reward. Regardless if you believe that or not, it's pretty widely accepted that humans are naturally greedy in of themselves and their famines to some extent, whether that be from birth or taught by society. That doesn't make all humans "bad" or selfish, but rather, it shows why non-capitalistic economic systems are more difficult to sustain over larger populations due to wealth being forcefully distributed. One may see their suffering as inconsequential to the greater society, which creates a growing sentiment of one's personal situation being worse off than others'.
[QUOTE=code_gs;51884357]It's pretty unbalanced, if anything. [b]There are strong theories in psychology[/b] that suggest [URL="http://www.iep.utm.edu/psychego/"]all human behaviour is motivated by self interest[/URL] and acts of kindness are just means of reaching some reward. Regardless if you believe that or not, it's pretty widely accepted that humans are naturally greedy in of themselves and their famines to some extent, whether that be from birth or taught by society. That doesn't make all humans "bad" or selfish, but rather, it shows why non-capitalistic economic systems are more difficult to sustain over larger populations due to wealth being forcefully distributed. One may see their suffering as inconsequential to the greater society, which creates a growing sentiment of one's personal situation being worse off than others'.[/QUOTE] "strong theories in psychology" i'd respond with a beyonce gif but that's bannable here so i'm going to write an argument instead can't you argue the exact opposite point that "since humans are naturally greedy and selfish so we need some way of clamping down on it, so it doesn't get out of hand" or even "humans are naturally violent, thats why murder is legal" (nothing we can do)
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