• CPAC: Conservatives fear generational shift to the left, call Millennials "spoiled"
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[QUOTE=code_gs;51884357]It's pretty unbalanced, if anything. There are strong theories in psychology that suggest [URL="http://www.iep.utm.edu/psychego/"]all human behaviour is motivated by self interest[/URL] and acts of kindness are just means of reaching some reward. Regardless if you believe that or not, it's pretty widely accepted that humans are naturally greedy in of themselves and their famines to some extent, whether that be from birth or taught by society. That doesn't make all humans "bad" or selfish, but rather, it shows why non-capitalistic economic systems are more difficult to sustain over larger populations due to wealth being forcefully distributed. One may see their suffering as inconsequential to the greater society, which creates a growing sentiment of one's personal situation being worse off than others'.[/QUOTE] Self-interest is absolutely a powerful motivator, and, using that logic we should strive to create a more equal society, because wealth and income inequality are unhealthy for society and are a threat to the interest of many. Some inequality can be good, I believe exceptional work should be rewarded exceptionally, but excesses are toxic and need to be reigned in in the interest of all. Proportions in the United States are way, way out of control. edit: Sobotnik nailed it. Like I said further up the page, we need to continually challenge our baser instincts and the contradictions within our characters to create a better society. If our ancestors were using cynical, defeatist logic, widespread chattel slavery would still exist in America and indeed much of the world, for example. Women would still be unable to vote, etc. the examples are endless. Humans are capable of overcoming their basic instincts, that's what makes us exceptional (imo).
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[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51884371]"strong theories in psychology" i'd respond with a beyonce gif but that's bannable here so i'm going to write an argument instead can't you argue the exact opposite point that "since humans are naturally greedy and selfish so we need some way of clamping down on it, so it doesn't get out of hand" or even "humans are naturally violent, thats why murder is legal" (nothing we can do)[/QUOTE] Nowhere did I advocate to promote greedy practices, I'm simply stating motivating factors against more distributed systems here.
People that say Trump is smart for not paying for taxes should realize that their argument can be used to justify welfare queens as well. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] As for the whole investment affair, that assumes that my current expenses are low enough to allow me to accumulate money. If everyone had access to such upward mobility then we would not have slums or people working 3 jobs to support their family.
Jeez this thread became full of people telling us that if we don't like being poor, we should just get more money. Never could have figured that one out on my own :vs:
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51883641]Honestly KingofBeast is right. While I won't go ahead and say that all of you haven't tried enough, plenty of you are just sitting around complaining on a forum with people that think like you and COMPLAINING how the world isn't fair and the jobs don't come to you. It's not really all that hard. I did below average in my school yet I'm set up to earn myself 6 figures a year in 6 years. And besides that, I've ran a gmod community in the past. When I was [b]12[/b] I was racking in $200/month for doing jackshit.[/QUOTE] Hi. I dropped out of highschool to run my businesses. I, too, am self-made and am earning 6 figures. You're wrong. You just don't have a good grasp on what it's like to be poor in this country. It's literally not possible for the average person to just magic a 6-figure salary out of thin air. You got [b]lucky.[/b] You are the definition of an outlier. Further, have you ever asked yourself [i]why it was[/i] that you were able to play gmod for hours every day and spend the time necessary to create a thriving community? Could it have been, perhaps, because your parents were able to afford the requisite equipment, and you had a healthy family life? Things that tend to not be so easy to come by in a lower-income household?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51884765]People that say Trump is smart for not paying for taxes should realize that their argument can be used to justify welfare queens as well. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] As for the whole investment affair, that assumes that my current expenses are low enough to allow me to accumulate money. If everyone had access to such upward mobility then we would not have slums or people working 3 jobs to support their family.[/QUOTE] How can that be justified? [QUOTE] If everyone had access to such upward mobility then we would not have slums or people working 3 jobs to support their family.[/QUOTE] Ah, but see here's the thing: One shouldn't start a family until they have a stable job and have 1 or 2 years salary saved up. If you don't follow this you deserve anything that happens to you imo.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51885374]How can that be justified? [/QUOTE] Trump gaming the system to avoid paying taxes is the same a a welfare queen gaming the system for a welfare check. [quote] Ah, but see here's the thing: One shouldn't start a family until they have a stable job and have 1 or 2 years salary saved up. If you don't follow this you deserve anything that happens to you imo.[/quote] Ah, but see here's the thing: One shouldn't post about matters such as this when one clearly lacks the knowledge or critical thinking skills to adequately understand them
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51885374]If you don't follow this you deserve anything that happens to you imo.[/QUOTE] Good lord.
The last part is a little tough but to a point I agree. But to geel9, I lived in a lower class home for a very long time. I had drive to improve my conditions. I won't say luck isn't out of the equation, but your drive is a huge part of it all.
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;51880776]I am aware of the protections that are afforded by Dodd-Frank, but I don't have much faith that such a "progressive" initiative will survive this administration. I literally am on the cusp of graduation with a BA in English Literature and Trump's educational appointees' promises (and stated beliefs) to essentially decimate the federal grants, scholarships, and loans which would allow me to "afford" to pursue a master's degree have scared me off of applying for continued education. That's not to mention the implications his already enacted cuts to the fields of the Arts have for my field in this country in the next four years, or even decade depending on how extensive the ramifications of this celebrity dud's fucked up policies are. What is the point of entering a master's program now when the present administration promises to decimate the benefits allowing me to go there during my time there, other than to take a massive risk for acquiring substantial (and indelible) federal debt with the added perk of not being able to afford to complete my degree? Instead of starting this Fall at UC Berkley or Santa Cruz, I will be seeking employment and potentially leaving the state if things truly prove as hopeless as the media considers my region to be. *edit - revised to master's because it is pretty presumptive to refer to the degree after the one I was beginning as the one I was starting, but I honestly used to be optimistic enough to think of it that way.[/QUOTE] What good is a bachelor's in English? Or a master's in English, even? If you learned something more profitable, maybe you could save up for the down payment on a house. ..
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51885387]Trump gaming the system to avoid paying taxes is the same a a welfare queen gaming the system for a welfare check.[/QUOTE] They're literally not the same at all, that's a joke of a comparison and you know it. Although what I said is tough it's true whether you want to admit it or not. Why would you start raising a family without first making sure you have the initial wealth to start it? Chances are once that happens you will always be struggling financially and it's not fair to your children.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51885387]Trump gaming the system to avoid paying taxes is the same a a welfare queen gaming the system for a welfare check.[/QUOTE] If there was a legal means for me not to pay taxes I'd take it in a heardbeat, so would pretty much anyone. If as much effort was put forth into criticizing the abusers was put into to get the real issue fixed perhaps some real change might be enacted.
[QUOTE=viper shtf;51885431]What good is a bachelor's in English? Or a master's in English, even? If you learned something more profitable, maybe you could save up for the down payment on a house. ..[/QUOTE] ah yes flooding people into degrees based on profitability only won't rapidly drive down wages such as in STEM. This is your key problem, you (or at least some people in this thread) can't think beyond the small scale when the article and topic in question is talking about the economy on a NATIONAL scale. If you didn't know, english is actually a very broad degree that takes people into many different fields, many of which pay incredibly well. [QUOTE=StonedPenguin;51885463]If there was a legal means for me not to pay taxes I'd take it in a heardbeat, so would pretty much anyone. If as much effort was put forth into criticizing the abusers was put into to get the real issue fixed perhaps some real change might be enacted.[/QUOTE] This really. He's not a bad person for doing it, and he's also not some genius either. Focus on the underlying problems instead of incidents like that.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51885452]They're literally not the same at all, that's a joke of a comparison and you know it.[/quote] How is it different? They're both methods of gaming money out of the system. A justification for Trump justifies all methods of abusing the system for money. [quote] Although what I said is tough it's true whether you want to admit it or not. Why would you start raising a family without first making sure you have the initial wealth to start it?[/quote] Its almost like accidental pregnancies happen, or you end up having to take care of other members of your family. Hell what if you do have the means to support them but the economy shits itself like in 08? [quote] Chances are once that happens you will always be struggling financially and it's not fair to your children.[/QUOTE] Children aren't the only reason people struggle financially. Preexisting health conditions, mental health problems, and substance abuse are some of those reasons. But the more obvious reasons are that there simply aren't enough opportunities for people with low income to advance themselves. If all it took was hard work and a drive then we would have far less people in poverty then we do today. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=StonedPenguin;51885463]If there was a legal means for me not to pay taxes I'd take it in a heardbeat, so would pretty much anyone. If as much effort was put forth into criticizing the abusers was put into to get the real issue fixed perhaps some real change might be enacted.[/QUOTE] I realize that, I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy of saying that Trump is justified in gaming the system but welfare queens are not.
[QUOTE=viper shtf;51885431]What good is a bachelor's in English? Or a master's in English, even? If you learned something more profitable, maybe you could save up for the down payment on a house. ..[/QUOTE] It's pre-law. Also aside from the profits a law degree and passing the BAR might entail, I've never in my life cared about having more money than I need.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51885513]How is it different? They're both methods of gaming money out of the system. A justification for Trump justifies all methods of abusing the system for money. Its almost like accidental pregnancies happen, or you end up having to take care of other members of your family. Hell what if you do have the means to support them but the economy shits itself like in 08? Children aren't the only reason people struggle financially. Preexisting health conditions, mental health problems, and substance abuse are some of those reasons. But the more obvious reasons are that there simply aren't enough opportunities for people with low income to advance themselves. If all it took was hard work and a drive then we would have far less people in poverty then we do today. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] I realize that, I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy of saying that Trump is justified in gaming the system but welfare queens are not.[/QUOTE] Nobody says you have to keep the baby when your gf gets preggos, and I would argue that if you have mental health problems or substance abuse issues you shouldn't even have children.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51885549]Nobody says you have to keep the baby when your gf gets preggos, and I would argue that if you have mental health problems or substance abuse issues you shouldn't even have children.[/QUOTE] So why've a poor person using loopholes wrong and Trump doing it it's smart, you've failed to answer this
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51885549]Nobody says you have to keep the baby when your gf gets preggos, and I would argue that if you have mental health problems or substance abuse issues you shouldn't even have children.[/QUOTE] Nice deflection.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51885452]They're literally not the same at all, that's a joke of a comparison and you know it.[/QUOTE] It's quite similar imo. [QUOTE]Although what I said is tough it's true whether you want to admit it or not. Why would you start raising a family without first making sure you have the initial wealth to start it? Chances are once that happens you will always be struggling financially and it's not fair to your children.[/QUOTE] Shit happens and in some states it's impossible to get an abortion. But that's an issue for another thread.
[QUOTE=StonedPenguin;51885463]If there was a legal means for me not to pay taxes I'd take it in a heardbeat, so would pretty much anyone. If as much effort was put forth into criticizing the abusers was put into to get the real issue fixed perhaps some real change might be enacted.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't. I would pay them then do everything in my power as a citizen to change it so everyone pays their fair share without loop holes. Abusing the situation just proves you don't have faith in the system, and thus will just support an opposition against those trying to benefit society and close the loopholes. In other words, the people who use legal means to not pay taxes also don't want it changed, and will do anything to prevent it. Those who "complain" about it do put in forth great effort, but are constantly pushed against by the abusers. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Derek_SM;51885549]Nobody says you have to keep the baby when your gf gets preggos, and I would argue that if you have mental health problems or substance abuse issues you shouldn't even have children.[/QUOTE] You're totally ignoring the "rainy day" situations where something goes wrong when you already have a family. Maybe you are struck with sudden illness or injury and you physically cannot work, or a member of your family has the same fate and you are forced to care for them. And I don't see abortion as a viable excuse to dodging the issue, either. Adoption maybe, but then there's a whole other can of worms opened for funding of foster homes, which, once again, must come from the government.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51885568]So why've a poor person using loopholes wrong and Trump doing it it's smart, you've failed to answer this[/QUOTE] First you're going to have to tell me what your definition of a welfare queen is, I don't want miscommunication.
[QUOTE=HappyCompy;51880597][I]‘Wait until they have a mortgage, and then they’ll become conservative,’ [/I][/QUOTE] Mortgage holder, not conservative, checkmate fuckers.
[QUOTE=code_gs;51885694]I wouldn't. I would pay them then do everything in my power as a citizen to change it so everyone pays their fair share without loop holes. Abusing the situation just proves you don't have faith in the system, and thus will just support an opposition against those trying to benefit society and close the loopholes. In other words, the people who use legal means to not pay taxes also don't want it changed, and will do anything to prevent it. Those who "complain" about it do put in forth great effort, but are constantly pushed against by the abusers. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] You're totally ignoring the "rainy day" situations where something goes wrong when you already have a family. Maybe you are struck with sudden illness or injury and you physically cannot work, or a member of your family has the same fate and you are forced to care for them. And I don't see abortion as a viable excuse to dodging the issue, either. Adoption maybe, but then there's a whole other can of worms opened for funding of foster homes, which, once again, must come from the government.[/QUOTE] You honestly think you wouldn't [b]legally[/b] stop paying taxes if you had the chance? You're delusional. I could understand using it and then doing everything you could to change it; but to just outright do a "I like throwing my money away!" thing is absurd, dude. As for your second part, that's why I said you should have one to two year's salary saved up, put that shit in savings. People should always have a rainy day fund and if they don't that's on them tbh.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51885716]First you're going to have to tell me what your definition of a welfare queen is, I don't want miscommunication.[/QUOTE] Someone who abuses the welfare system for money. Stop deflecting or willfully misinterpreting arguments.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51885723]You honestly think you wouldn't [b]legally[/b] stop paying taxes if you had the chance? You're delusional. I could understand using it and then doing everything you could to change it; but to just outright do a "I like throwing my money away!" thing is absurd, dude. As for your second part, that's why I said you should have one to two year's salary saved up, put that shit in savings. People should always have a rainy day fund and if they don't that's on them tbh.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't because I support the country I live in and can see the bigger picture beyond the measly amount I pay in taxes on a comparative scale.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;50884793]God I can just imagine how you guys all look(ed) like. Being bullied? Moving schools and getting bullied there? Y'all must('ve) look(ed) pretty fucked up haha. Me? Never been bullied. Back in middle school I was the bully. Now I see people that do get bullied and I realize lots of them are poor sods like the lot of you were (are?) So I talk to them. Pretty nice when a jock is nice to you I would bet. But really? Some of you trying to commit suicide? Like holy shit it's not that bad haha [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting/Shut up" - Pascall))[/highlight][/QUOTE] This explains so muchq
[QUOTE=StonedPenguin;51885463]If there was a legal means for me not to pay taxes I'd take it in a heardbeat, so would pretty much anyone. If as much effort was put forth into criticizing the abusers was put into to get the real issue fixed perhaps some real change might be enacted.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't. I understand that the society I benefit from needs to be funded in order to function. This false equivalency between you skipping out on taxes and the nation's purported wealthiest doing so is utter fallacy. Their taxes not being payed results in a much larger deficit than welfare queens or pretty much any other cause you could list. In fact, if the nation's wealthiest payed their taxes (and even more so, were taxed at a respectable level rather than the pittance they are today), odds are we'd find our government pretty well-funded in many aspects that would more than make up for the supposed major causes of decline Conservatives love to fixate on.
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;51885900]I wouldn't. I understand that the society I benefit from needs to be funded in order to function.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=code_gs;51885868]I wouldn't because I support the country I live in and can see the bigger picture beyond the measly amount I pay in taxes on a comparative scale.[/QUOTE] This is why I love leftists. You guys just gave me a civic boner.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51885894]This explains so muchq[/QUOTE] The ad hominem really isn't necessary -- he's been civil the entire time.
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