Rand Paul Working on Bill to Give Personhood to the Unborn - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Dalndox;46080908]Why? (just out of curiosity)[/QUOTE] If you mean abortion as in terms of medical reasons, personally I think it's only justified if there is a real risk of either the mother or child or both dying in the process of giving birth, regardless of any other methods of birthing the baby that may be used. I know this is usually rare, but would you rather have both of them die/or the mother die when it may be possible for the mother to produce further offspring without issue? In regards to the personhood thing, basically gives the government leeway to pull some ridiculous bullshit as has been mentioned earlier in the thread. I'd personally be all for it if there wasn't a possibility of the government being complete shitlords about it. EDIT: Technically, there is always the risk of either or both dying, but I am sure you understand what I mean.

[QUOTE=Pokeman493;46080929]If you mean abortion as in terms of medical reasons, personally I think it's only justified if there is a real risk of either the mother or child or both dying in the process of giving birth, regardless of any other methods of birthing the baby that may be used. I know this is usually rare, but would you rather have both of them die/or the mother die when it may be possible for the mother to produce further offspring without issue? ...[/QUOTE] He means why are you against abortion. Unless the government is ready to pay the mother during pregnancy and then take the baby and care for it, I don't see why it is a good idea to force women into having babies they don't want. It's bad for both the mother and the baby. I don't see any good coming from banning abortion.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;46081008]He means why are you against abortion. Unless the government is ready to pay the mother during pregnancy and then take the baby and care for it, I don't see why it is a good idea to force women into having babies they don't want. It's bad for both the mother and the baby. I don't see any good coming from banning abortion.[/QUOTE] That is a good argument for abortion actually, but there is always the option of putting up the child for adoption, which, unfortunately has its own set of legal hurdles as well as possible financial hurdles to go through that more often than not makes the process difficult to follow through with. I understand that there are other reasons that may justify a pro choice mindset, and I won't think any less of anyone for it if there is real merit to it. As you can tell by my stance towards the whole thing, it's better to keep an open mind and willing to accept new ideas that may potentially conflict with your own. I'm not trying to say you should accept every batshit insane idea with no logic or thought process behind it that comes up though, that would just be crazy.

With the current state of the American adoption system I would not put a child through that sort of hell.

[QUOTE=Pokeman493;46081033]That is a good argument for abortion actually, but there is always the option of putting up the child for adoption, which, unfortunately has its own set of legal hurdles as well as possible financial hurdles to go through that more often than not makes the process difficult to follow through with. I understand that there are other reasons that may justify a pro choice mindset, and I won't think any less of anyone for it if there is real merit to it. As you can tell by my stance towards the whole thing, it's better to keep an open mind and willing to accept new ideas that may potentially conflict with your own. I'm not trying to say you should accept every batshit insane idea with no logic or thought process behind it that comes up though, that would just be crazy.[/QUOTE] You did not explain why you're against abortion. Putting up a child for adoption is shit. If a kid does not get adopted, his life will be tougher than it needs to be, thus not a good life. And most kids do not get adopted. There is already a big enough problem with parentless kids and where to put them. It also drains the economy. An abortion will save you both money and suffering for the child that isn't even born yet. So far I haven't seen any valid anti-abortion arguments besides as someone else said "muh feels" which isn't valid. And yet there are tons of pro-abortion arguments and positives. I sometimes see anti abortionists say something stupid like "what if your parents aborted you?" In that case I just wouldn't exist, therefor wouldn't really care if they did. Same as caring what happens with my body after I'm dead, I'm fucking dead, I don't care any more.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;46081212]You did not explain why you're against abortion. Putting up a child for adoption is shit. If a kid does not get adopted, his life will be tougher than it needs to be, thus not a good life. And most kids do not get adopted. There is already a big enough problem with parentless kids and where to put them. It also drains the economy. An abortion will save you both money and suffering for the child that isn't even born yet. So far I haven't seen any valid anti-abortion arguments besides as someone else said "muh feels" which isn't valid. And yet there are tons of pro-abortion arguments and positives. I sometimes see anti abortionists say something stupid like "what if your parents aborted you?" In that case I just wouldn't exist, therefor wouldn't really care if they did. Same as caring what happens with my body after I'm dead, I'm fucking dead, I don't care any more.[/QUOTE] Well, I didn't want to throw this one out since it's the most overused argument for being pro life as well as the most "I don't want to come up with an actual argument as to why abortion should be outlawed because fuck you my religion dictates it" type of argument anyone could give, but I was raised a Catholic, and naturally, I ended up having a pro life mindset, and I can understand why people would prefer aborting a child to having them have to suffer with nigh absolute certainty possible mental issues after finding out they were adopted, which would be expected when the first thoughts after finding this out that their biological parents never loved them for quite some time after finding this out, and I can't believe I forgot to include something about that earlier. Yes, I know that this mindset would be considered naive by some but, I feel that letting the child live could possibly outweigh the later psychological trauma that would likely come up later on. Other than that, I have no real argument other than that I value human life that much. And on that note, no, I am not all "you are going to hell because you think differently than what is preached" about my religion, in the end, it's the same God, just manifested differently depending on the religion. Now PLEASE don't make me have to snip this before the thread derails into a debate on religion. EDIT: And yes, I have to agree that "What if your parents aborted you" is one of the dumbest arguments made by those who are pro life, and with how differently everyone thinks, it's essentially impossible for there to ever be some sort of middle ground on the subject.

Ah the good ol' pro life vs pro choice debate. Almost like being in the 90's again I like to stay pretty neutral on this More like, pro responsibility do whatever you can to avoid having to get an abortion in the first place, but if you have to, you have to.

[QUOTE=Glitchman;46081707]Ah the good ol' pro life vs pro choice debate. Almost like being in the 90's again I like to stay pretty neutral on this More like, pro responsibility do whatever you can to avoid having to get an abortion in the first place, but if you have to, you have to.[/QUOTE] I don't think anyone here is arguing for drive-thru abortion clinics. The vast majority of pro-choice people have the same mindset that you do.

[QUOTE=Glitchman;46081707]Ah the good ol' pro life vs pro choice debate. Almost like being in the 90's again I like to stay pretty neutral on this More like, pro responsibility do whatever you can to avoid having to get an abortion in the first place, but if you have to, you have to.[/QUOTE] So...you're pro-choice then? Because, like, what you just described is pro-choice. Nobody actively wants abortions, they aren't a status symbol or pleasant things after all.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46082134]So...you're pro-choice then? Because, like, what you just described is pro-choice. Nobody actively wants abortions, they aren't a status symbol or pleasant things after all.[/QUOTE] This is why I dislike the term "pro-life" it should be "anti-choice"