Health care reform is done - Obama signs reconciliation bill
353 replies, posted
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;21058941]Goodwill.[/QUOTE]
Goodwill, putting people to work! And yet hundreds of thousands of people are still unemployed.
I don't think you're old enough to remember "a thousand points of light" but that's basically what you're arguing here and [i]it didn't work[/i]. Charities don't work.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;21058942]This isn't even close to a "government takeover". That would be single-payer socialized healthcare that puts any and all health insurance companies out of business. And it's actually about 1/6 of the economy.
Stop listening to Fox.[/QUOTE]
I don't like fox.
[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;21058297]Still waiting for Rush Limbaugh to leave the country. Then and only then will things change for the better.[/QUOTE]
and California
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;21058936]Are you saying that you think I'm saying that our current healthcare is good? If so, you are wrong. It is currently unorganized and the Republican's bill looks a lot better.[/QUOTE]
Oh right, I thought you meant the exact opposite.
The graph shows that your country has the highest spending per capita on healthcare, but yet has an average/below average life expectancy.
You should get used to paying for other people's stuff, unless (like TH89 said) you're actually a fan of feudalism. Pretty much every other first world country has some kind of universal health care or health insurance, and you're currently the odd one out.
[QUOTE=TH89;21058960]Goodwill, putting people to work! And yet hundreds of thousands of people are still unemployed.
I don't think you're old enough to remember "a thousand points of light" but that's basically what you're arguing here and [i]it didn't work[/i]. Charities don't work.[/QUOTE]
Nor do governments.
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;21059005]Nor do governments.[/QUOTE]
They work a hell of a lot better than charities.
[QUOTE=BaconDioxide;21058999]Oh right, I thought you meant the exact opposite.
The graph shows that your country has the highest spending per capita on healthcare, but yet has an average/below average life expectancy.
You should get used to paying for other people's stuff, unless (like TH89 said) you're actually a fan of feudalism. Pretty much every other first world country has some kind of universal health care or health insurance, and you're currently the odd one out.[/QUOTE]
So what? We were the odd one out when we had a Republic.
I'd say this bill deserves a chance to work. Honestly, America is a country that changes its mind all the time, and if something isn't working, we will just elect a different party and they will do things their way, and eventually that won't work. Should something this important have went through a more balanced congress? Maybe, but it didn't, and now it is here.
Just thought I would add that I do enjoy the fact that we are the odd one out. Honestly, we are the odd one out in a lot of areas and are criticized all the time for these things. Does it mean we are bad? No. We just do things differently.
[QUOTE=TH89;21059019]They work a hell of a lot better than charities.[/QUOTE]
They may cover more people but it always gets spent on other things.
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;21058915]I'm fine with regulation of the system to make healthcare cheaper, but I don't want a government takeover of 1/3 of the economy.[/QUOTE]
The most common argument against Communism is that it depends too much on people acting on the best interest of society when people are imperfect, corruptible, and unpredictable. Anything that's dependent on voluntary behavior, such as charity, shouldn't be a factor.
[QUOTE=SilentOpp;21059025]I'd say this bill deserves a chance to work. Honestly, America is a country that changes its mind all the time, and if something isn't working, we will just elect a different party and they will do things their way, and eventually that won't work. Should something this important have went through a more balanced congress? Maybe, but it didn't, and now it is here.[/QUOTE]
I say we give the republican bill a chance too.
[editline]10:31AM[/editline]
[url]http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/Summary_of_Republican_Alternative_Health_Care_plan_Updated_11-04-09.pdf[/url]
Here's a summary for you guys.
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;21059020]So what? We were the odd one out when we had a Republic.[/QUOTE]
This is the whole "if your friends all jumped off a cliff, would you do it" argument.
It obviously works so much better for you, which is presumably why you're flopping around at the bottom of the graph I just posted.
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;21059036]They may cover more people but it always gets spent on other things.[/QUOTE]
What? What gets spent on what other things and by who?
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;21059036]They may cover more people but it always gets spent on other things.[/QUOTE]
Which happens with charities.
[url]http://rules-republicans.house.gov/Media/PDF/RepublicanAlternative3962_9.pdf[/url]
and here's the 219 page bill.
[editline]10:34AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=TH89;21059073]What? What gets spent on what other things and by who?[/QUOTE]
When you give company money, let's say premiums, it goes in to a resivoir that goes towards the company and it's goal (for the most part). For governments, it gets spent on other things (for the most part).
[editline]10:35AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=BaconDioxide;21059070]This is the whole "if your friends all jumped off a cliff, would you do it" argument.
It obviously works so much better for you, which is presumably why you're flopping around at the bottom of the graph I just posted.[/QUOTE]
Stop trying to make me say that our healthcare system is good, it is not, and it is faulty.
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;21059092]it gets spent on other things (for the most part).[/QUOTE]
[B]like what[/B]
If the government says a certain portion of your taxes will contribute to something, then it WILL go to that thing (or at least it should).
[QUOTE=BaconDioxide;21059125][B]like what[/B][/QUOTE]
Faulty plans. Stuff like the Stimulus package.
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;21059056]I say we give the republican bill a chance too.
[editline]10:31AM[/editline]
[url]http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/Summary_of_Republican_Alternative_Health_Care_plan_Updated_11-04-09.pdf[/url]
Here's a summary for you guys.[/QUOTE]
The republican bill doesn't get a chance, the republicans aren't the leaders in office. It's a lost battle for them. I'm reading through the bill you posted right now but I feel like see more money involved then the democratic version. Anyways, I'd love a summary but I just can't trust one from the party trying to push the bill.
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;21059144]Faulty plans. Stuff like the Stimulus package.[/QUOTE]
So, the government spends money on...government projects?
shocking
[QUOTE=TH89;21059221]So, the government spends money on...government projects?
shocking[/QUOTE]
I think he's mad that the government wastes money on ineffective projects. I'm glad they spend money on projects, they kinda put me through high school.
[QUOTE=SilentOpp;21059310]I think he's mad that the government wastes money on ineffective projects. I'm glad they spend money on projects, they kinda put me through high school.[/QUOTE]
This pretty much.
[QUOTE=SilentOpp;21059310]I think he's mad that the government wastes money on ineffective projects. I'm glad they spend money on projects, they kinda put me through high school.[/QUOTE]
Me too. And elementary school. And college.
The stimulus package was the right thing to do either way, give or take a million here or there
[QUOTE=TH89;21059358]
The stimulus package was the right thing to do either way, give or take a million here or there[/QUOTE]
lolwhat.
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;21059371]lolwhat.[/QUOTE]
Do you know what a stimulus bill does?
Do you know anything about basic economics?
[QUOTE=TH89;21059358]Me too. And elementary school. And college.
The stimulus package was the right thing to do either way, give or take a million here or there[/QUOTE]
It was definitely the best thing we could think of, we can't change that now. But there are many more areas where the government wastes money, the stimulus package probably shouldn't be center of that argument.
[B]Edit:[/B]
I mean to say, the best thing we could think of and that our government could agree on.
[QUOTE=TH89;21059431]Do you know what a stimulus bill does?
Do you know anything about basic economics?[/QUOTE]
He still hasn't spent about (Don't quote me on this, I'm probably wrong) 300b, and he's not spending it on tax cuts.
[editline]10:56AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=SilentOpp;21059451]It was definitely the best thing we could think of, we can't change that now. But there are many more areas where the government wastes money, the stimulus package probably shouldn't be center of that argument.[/QUOTE]
Aaaaaaaand this is why local government are better because you can spot bullshit like this easier.
It's entertaining watching Zombiefreak argue.
It's like a trainwreck.
[editline]11:58AM[/editline]
Quick keep trying to make your point even though you have no knowledge of the world!
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;21059457]He still hasn't spent about (Don't quote me on this, I'm probably wrong) 300b, and he's not spending it on tax cuts.[/QUOTE]
You didn't answer my question.
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;21059457]He still hasn't spent about (Don't quote me on this, I'm probably wrong) 300b, and he's not spending it on tax cuts.
[editline]10:56AM[/editline]
Aaaaaaaand this is why local government are better because you can spot bullshit like this easier.[/QUOTE]
Okay, you kinda lost me with that last statement... Are you saying we should put all the power to individual uhmm... City, County, or State governments? I think we tried that when we gained our independence. It didn't work out so well with that whole war and all...
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;21059562]Somewhat to question one.
And somewhat to question two.[/QUOTE]
You lost me.
[QUOTE=TH89;21059491]You didn't answer my question.[/QUOTE]
Somewhat to question one.
And somewhat to question two.
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