Av referendum fails - and the ignorant masses bring "Great" britain deeper into it's shit. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;29656619]So the only alternatives to Labour and Conservative, in your opinion, are the two most extreme parties the country has?[/QUOTE] So what do you suggest? It would be great if there was a better option, but there isn't.

Labour are centre-left, Conservative are centre-right so theyre going to be similar in some ways

[QUOTE=SpartanApples;29656713]So what do you suggest? It would be great if there was a better option, but there isn't.[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/bpp.htm]here[/url] you go, a complete list of possible parties. I counted, and there's definitely more than four on that list.

[QUOTE=smurfy;29656548]what really got me was when I realised a campaign made up almost entirely of lies was going to win[/QUOTE] Why? Haven't you got used to that happening yet? [QUOTE=Darth_GW7;29656619] Party 1: Oh, we're going to do X. Party 2: NOOOOOOOOO THAT'S WRONG![/QUOTE] The ridiculous thing is, it doesn't matter which party is 1 or 2 and it doesn't matter what X is, it will always be the same.

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;29656149]Under "Alternative Vote", you are given the same ballot paper, however, you put the candidates in order of preference - a 1 next to the person you MOST want, through to a 5 for the person you LEAST want.[/QUOTE] wow, so many different numbers that sounds too hard :((

Fuck, now we'll never get a better system for decades, if ever. Dirty, lying cheating Tories win again. Mother. Fuckers.

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;29656773][url=http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/bpp.htm]here[/url] you go, a complete list of possible parties. I counted, and there's definitely more than four on that list.[/QUOTE] The SDLP doesn't seem too bad. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=st0rmforce;29656834]The ridiculous thing is, it doesn't matter which party is 1 or 2 and it doesn't matter what X is, it will always be the same.[/QUOTE] Nope.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29656894]Nope.[/QUOTE] You have an example of a party announcing a policy and the opposition saying "What an excellent idea"? Or did you not read what I was replying to and just assume I was talking about voting?

[QUOTE=st0rmforce;29656993]You have an example of a party announcing a policy and the opposition saying "What an excellent idea"? Or did you not read what I was replying to and just assume I was talking about voting?[/QUOTE] Parties do in fact reach compromises, you know. Just because they aren't all high-fiving in the hallways and telling each other how great they are doesn't mean they can't work out issues.

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;29656149]Under "First past the post", you are given a ballot paper with, say, 5 candidates on it. You mark the box next to the one you want to vote for. The results are counted, and the person with the most votes wins. Under "Alternative Vote", you are given the same ballot paper, however, you put the candidates in order of preference - a 1 next to the person you MOST want, through to a 5 for the person you LEAST want. You're not obligated to vote past the first preference, but you're a fool not to. The votes are counted as before, however, if no candidate has a clear majority, ie. 50%, the person with the least votes is eliminated. All the people who voted for that person have their first preferences ignored and their second preferences counted as one vote. This continues until one party has a majority - the person with the least votes being eliminated, and all the people who voted for them having their next preference counted instead. [/QUOTE] There's another thing about FPTP that AV "fixes", at the moment a candidate can win even if more people vote against them.

I planned on voting for AV, but didn't manage to get out the house to do so. I realise that it's not the best solution but it's a step towards a fairer voting system

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29657008]Parties do in fact reach compromises, you know. Just because they aren't all high-fiving in the hallways and telling each other how great they are doesn't mean they can't work out issues.[/QUOTE] OK, maybe they do. I thought he was talking about all the dickwaving you see in the commons. The parties aren't actually very different, but the opposition has to be seen as an opposing force, so they will instantly make a big fuss about any policy. Even if the policy is not actually against their ideology. Really though, I don't follow politics much. I try to keep an eye on events and read up as much as I feel I need to, but seriously I couldn't give a shit. The more I watch, the less interested I get. I would prefer it if politicians actually tried doing something good rather than just making the other party look bad.

OP you can always leave the country if you want no one's stopping you.

[QUOTE=st0rmforce;29657210]OK, maybe they do. I thought he was talking about all the dickwaving you see in the commons. The parties aren't actually very different, but the opposition has to be seen as an opposing force, so they will instantly make a big fuss about any policy. Even if the policy is not actually against their ideology.[/QUOTE] Yeah, unfortunately a lot of politicians do that, and it isn't good, but to act like politicians are like that by nature is just naive. I'm not too familiar with the House of Commons in the UK, but I know in the US Congress we've got some pretty decent people, like Anthony Wiener or Bernie Sanders.

[QUOTE=markg06;29657253]OP you can always leave the country if you want no one's stopping you.[/QUOTE]Instead of trying to make the country a better place (whether it be objectively or subjectively better), he should just fuck off somewhere else?

where would he go anyway this isn't the days of the british empire where he could set sail for some random island

[QUOTE=thisispain;29657590]where would he go anyway this isn't the days of the british empire where he could set sail for some random island[/QUOTE] We're part of the EU, he can go to any European country he wants

[QUOTE=matt.ant;29657787]We're part of the EU, he can go to any European country he wants[/QUOTE] for like 60 days

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FstA45lxgFs[/media] Watch this vid and tell me that AV sucks

[QUOTE=XIII_GT;29658508][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FstA45lxgFs[/media] Watch this vid and tell me that AV sucks[/QUOTE] I have no qualms with anything in that video. I too would like to hear any possible reason to dislike AV at this point.

*creates media highlighting possible advantages to an idea* *ignores all possible cons*

[QUOTE=parket;29658690]*creates media highlighting possible advantages to an idea* *ignores all possible cons*[/QUOTE] Well present some cons and I'd be happy to discuss it. Preferably not the ridiculous ones "it costs too much" or "it's too complicated". I would address your concerns, but your only post on the matter so far is this: [QUOTE=parket;29656279]AV is horrible and anyone who supports it is horrible[/QUOTE] So....yeah.

[QUOTE=The mouse;29656019]Av is fucking stupid. It mean's there would be more coalitions and would lead to more tactical voting.[/QUOTE] this is factually incorrect.

The two main situations we'd have if we had AV would be these: 1. "Oh I've always voted Conservative/Labour/Lib Dem and so has my family, I'll put them as my first choice and nothing else." 2. "OK I'm a Tory so I'll put them as my first choice and as my second choice I'll put... ah."

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;29658935]this is factually incorrect.[/QUOTE] Screw the facts, I have faith.

[QUOTE=parket;29658690]*creates media highlighting possible advantages to an idea* *ignores all possible cons*[/QUOTE] I'm waiting for your cons, here. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;29659043]The two main situations we'd have if we had AV would be these: 1. "Oh I've always voted Conservative/Labour/Lib Dem and so has my family, I'll put them as my first choice and nothing else." 2. "OK I'm a Tory so I'll put them as my first choice and as my second choice I'll put... ah."[/QUOTE] People would probably end up voting different things. Some would vote 1. BNP 2. Tory or 1. Lib Dem 2. Labour or 1. Lib Dem 2. Green or 1. Labour 2. SNP There's a variety of choices really.

Fuck, I was hoping that this would succeed, and maybe the U.S. would catch on. Fat chance now.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;29659814]Fuck, I was hoping that this would succeed, and maybe the U.S. would catch on. Fat chance now.[/QUOTE] It doesn't really work in the US when there are only 2 real choices (the republican or democratic candidate). You directly elect the president, whereas our prime minister is the leader of the party with the most seats in the House of Commons.

PR would of been better than AV. The Coalition in general sucks.

I doubt there will be another hung parliament next time anyway. The only reason there was one this time was because of the Lib Dems surge in popularity meaning that the votes pretty much went three ways. However now that they are seen as the enemy it'll just go back to Labour vs Conservatives, I hope at least, fuck this coalition bullshit.