White firefighters awarded $2.5 million in discrimination case - Polidicks

[url]http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/09/10362607-white-firefighters-awarded-25-million-in-discrimination-case[/url] [release]Twelve white firefighters who sued after not getting promotions they were in line to get have been awarded a total of more than $2.5 million from the city of Buffalo. The men sued the city in 2007, claiming the fire department illegally allowed promotional lists with their names on them to expire so they could promote African-American firefighters instead. The firefighters' awards were based on how far their promotions would have taken them - $49,000 to $500,000 - plus emotional damages, which ranged from $20,000 to $30,000, reported NBC affiliate WGRZ.com. "The two fellows who are getting the most were selected for promotion to lieutenant in the fall of 2005 by the fire commissioner, and then again around the end of January 2006 by a new fire commissioner. Those two fellows have never made it to lieutenant," an attorney representing the plaintiffs, Andrew Fleming, told msnbc.com on Thursday. "They had been working 10 or 12 years by 2006. So the judge looked at what their prospective promotions would have been, and ruled that it was likely they would have made battalion commander." Those two were each given $500,000 based on the judge's calculations, he said. 'They really felt betrayed' The compensation ruling was awarded on Tuesday by state Supreme Court Justice John Michalek, who 15 months ago made the initial ruling that Buffalo had illegally failed to promote the firefighters because of racial discrimination. In order to qualify for a promotion, a firefighter needs to take a promotional eligibility exam, which tests the skills they would need to serve as a lieutenant, captain, or other higher-ranking position in the department. The Buffalo case alleged that white firefighters had scored high enough on their exams, but were then denied promotions because the city wanted to give minorities, who hadn't scored as well, the chance to fill those positions. "The word that kept coming up was betrayal," Fleming said. "They really felt betrayed by the city." This isn't the first allegation of racial discrimination in the Buffalo Fire Department, or in fire departments around the country. According to a 2010 story on BuffaloNews.com, the department was sued in federal court over the fairness of the promotion exams before: A group of African-American Buffalo firefighters claimed that because only a handful of minorities had passed the tests, blacks did not have an equal shot at promotions as whites did in the department. A judge dismissed the suit, though, ruling that there was insufficient evident to prove the city intentionally engaged in discrimination against black firefighters. The awards this week came in a state court case. Reverse discrimination was also addressed in a lawsuit at a New Haven, Conn. Fire Department that made its way to the Supreme Court in June 2009. Similar to the Buffalo case, the court ruled that white firefighters were unfairly denied promotion because of their race, ruling in favor of the 20 white plaintiffs. 13th firefighter got nothing In this week's ruling, a 13th firefighter listed in the suit, Anthony Hynes, was not awarded any damages because there wasn't enough evidence to support his claim, according to the court. "He was up for division chief, which is the highest rank you can get other than fire commissioner," Fleming told msnbc.com. "When he was passed over for it and another year had passed he realized he wasn't going to get it, he made the decision to retire." The judge likely excluded Hynes because he assumed there wouldn't have been an opening for division chief even if he hadn't retired, Fleming said. A spokesman for Buffalo told WGRZ.com that officials are reviewing the decision, and the city may appeal the ruling. Three firefighters in the case have since been injured on the job since the lawsuit was filed, but all of the others are still working for the department, Fleming told msnbc.com. "In some cases, they're working for people they should be in charge of. Seeing someone else wearing the captain's bars -- that's hard stuff," he said. 'I cried at this one' The lawsuit describes emotional distress the men experienced over the past several years, citing sleeplessness, marital strain, and depression. The damages award was greeted with mixed emotions. "The fellow who didn't get any money, they all feel as though that was not fair," Fleming told msnbc.com. "Many of them had said they were very, very pleased with the result, but for many of them, they just simply say, you know what? This is not ever going to go away for me. One of them, he was on TV last night saying, 'I should be a captain; I'm only a lieutenant.'" "It's just bad stuff. It's just a sad case. I've never cried at a trial. I cried at this one," he added. Lawyers for the city said they disagreed with the judge's ruling on how much the firefighters should be paid. "The city, at all times, acted under its rights under federal law," Attorney Adam Perry told BuffaloNews.com. "The city has maintained its position that the liability determination made by Justice Michalek was erroneous and should be reversed on appeal."[/release]

Firefighters are awesome.

Firefighters are bros. Like spiders.

Live here, never heard of this occurring.

Wow, a discrimination case that doesn't involve people of other races? that's a first. -redacted- turns out "Reverse Racism" is a stupid term, of which i am now aware of.

Good, more people need to realize it's still racism if it's against white people.

That's good that they're recognizing this as racism, the best way to equality is to treat everyone the same no matter what color they happen to be. Legally, race should't be any more important than hair color.

[QUOTE=Asdroxia;34628263]Good, more people need to realize it's still racism if it's against white people.[/QUOTE] Kind of like how sexism can also be used against men. People think sexism is only about women, and they also think racism is only about African-Americans/Middle Easterners/Asians/Hispanics.

I was expecting this thread to be a shit storm.

[QUOTE=zombini;34628262]Wow, a discrimination case that doesn't involve people of other races? that's a first. Correct me if i'm wrong but the way the police station handled the promotions is looking like reverse racism.[/QUOTE] Just call it racism, since the term "reverse racism" it implies that only whites are racist. When you think about it, that term is technically a racist statement in itself.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;34628275]that term is so fucking stupid, stop using it[/QUOTE] I know it's a stupid term, i just don't know of any other name for it.

I still can't stand these "Emotional damages" that people receive in cases like that. Oh, your feelings are hurt? Why don't you sue someone over it? (I feel like I should have put that into a condescending wonka meme, but fuck it).

[QUOTE=RichyZ;34628275]that term is so fucking stupid, stop using it[/QUOTE] Yeah, you can't reverse a straight forward concept, anyone who tries to be politically correct is already in the hole though because you can't be political AND correct. [QUOTE=zombini;34628349]I know it's a stupid term, i just don't know of any other name for it.[/QUOTE] How about just RACISM? Because, well, that's what it is. Some people...

[QUOTE=zombini;34628349]I know it's a stupid term, i just don't know of any other name for it.[/QUOTE] uhm this is kinda a crazy idea but how about calling it "racism" because, you know... it's racism

So we are equal now?

Firefighters are bros but 20,000 for "emotional damages" is bullshit On second thought I didn't really read the article.

[QUOTE=Snake7;34628306]That's good that they're recognizing this as racism, the best way to equality is to treat everyone the same no matter what color they happen to be. Legally, race should't be any more important than hair color.[/QUOTE] That would be true IF the 'equal treatment' starts from the very beginning. If, for example, out of 200 firefighters on a department, 190 of them are white males- it's a joke to say equal treatment is going on in the first place. I mention this because when something like 9/11 happens, I can't help notice how many firefighters are brothers/sons/uncles/etc of other firefighters. Gee, what a coincidence, the best applicants for those jobs all happened to be family members of people already in the department!

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;34628666]That would be true IF the 'equal treatment' starts from the very beginning. If, for example, out of 200 firefighters on a department, 190 of them are white males- it's a joke to say equal treatment is going on in the first place. I mention this because when something like 9/11 happens, I can't help notice how many firefighters are brothers/sons/uncles/etc of other firefighters. Gee, what a coincidence, the best applicants for those jobs all happened to be family members of people already in the department![/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the brothers/uncles thing was going on way before 9/11 and has nothing to do with racism. There are "firefighter families" just like "police families".

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;34628666]That would be true IF the 'equal treatment' starts from the very beginning. If, for example, out of 200 firefighters on a department, 190 of them are white males- it's a joke to say equal treatment is going on in the first place. I mention this because when something like 9/11 happens, I can't help notice how many firefighters are brothers/sons/uncles/etc of other firefighters. Gee, what a coincidence, the best applicants for those jobs all happened to be family members of people already in the department![/QUOTE] It's called family dynasties. People like going for the same career as their parents.

Well I was responding to the 'treat everyone the same' comment. If a diverse group of people are applying to be firefighters all the time and yet a huge number of firefighters who actually get the job are related to other firefighters, how 'equal' are applicants being treated really? It's like people have a blind eye to favoritism. If you get a job because your dad got you in, that's okay. But if you get a job because you're a minority of some sort, that's bad. If you get into a university because you can play football, no one thinks twice about it. But if you get in because you're a minority that is barely represented there and they want to change that, that's wrong in people's eyes. I don't see the logic in that kind of thinking.

Getting a job through relatives and getting a job through being a minority are vastly different things you spoon.

This has been happening quite a bit. I am all for equality. I am not for treating someone better than someone else and calling it equality. I lost out on a grant because I wasn't black. How is it equality if not everyone has the same opportunity to get the same thing? [editline]10th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;34628666]That would be true IF the 'equal treatment' starts from the very beginning. If, for example, out of 200 firefighters on a department, 190 of them are white males- it's a joke to say equal treatment is going on in the first place. I mention this because when something like 9/11 happens, I can't help notice how many firefighters are brothers/sons/uncles/etc of other firefighters. Gee, what a coincidence, the best applicants for those jobs all happened to be family members of people already in the department![/QUOTE] My great uncle was a fire fighter... My uncle became a firefighter because he thought it was an honorable job. Them being related had nothing to do with knowing each other. My dad quit his job to become a firefighter because he always wanted to be one since he was a little kid. He got on the department because of his hard work and by doing better on the tests than everyone else. My uncle had nothing to do with him getting on the fire department. My brother is a firefighter now and works at a different department in another state now. He wanted to be a firefighter because of my dad and uncles work. It was what he wanted to do. Neither one of them could help him get a job somewhere else like that. I thought about being a firefighter, but my dad didn't want me to, he said he wanted better for me. If I could, I would be a firefighter today, however I decided to take a different path. It is definitely a legacy thing, not a friend helping friend thing.

Yay for REAL equality! Not this brainwashed "scared of being a white supremacist 'equality'". Love to everyone.

Oh and just to show that this isn't uncommon. My state did it first. [url]http://advanceindiana.blogspot.com/2008/02/white-firefighters-sue-ifd-over.html[/url] [release]At least 20 Indianapolis firefighters are claiming in a lawsuit filed in the U.S. District Court in Indianapolis that the Indianapolis Fire Department's promotion policy discriminated against them. The Star's Jon Murray explains: The suit, filed in U.S. District Court in Indianapolis, is based on the department's last round of promotions in 2006 for the lieutenant and captain ranks. It says white firefighters were passed over for less-qualified black firefighters who were ranked lower on a promotions list. Four black firefighters unfairly received promotions to lieutenant, the suit says, and one was promoted to captain. You may recall a similar lawsuit brought by the U.S. government last year against the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department. Attorney Jeff McQuary says the IFP policy is identical to IMPD's policy even though the Justice Department chose not to pursue a separate lawsuit against IFD. "The two promotion systems are established by city ordinance, and they are identical," McQuary said. McQuary is representing some of the IMPD officers in the other lawsuit. He is also co-counsel with me in a racial discrimination suit brought on behalf of two former forensic pathologists for the Marion County Coroner's office against Dr. Kenneth Ackles and Chief Deputy Coroner Alfarena Ballew. [/release] We need to fight for EQUALITY again not fight for OVER CORRECTION. I want EVERYONE to be treated equally and have the same opportunities.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;34628666]That would be true IF the 'equal treatment' starts from the very beginning. If, for example, out of 200 firefighters on a department, 190 of them are white males- it's a joke to say equal treatment is going on in the first place. I mention this because when something like 9/11 happens, I can't help notice how many firefighters are brothers/sons/uncles/etc of other firefighters. Gee, what a coincidence, the best applicants for those jobs all happened to be family members of people already in the department![/QUOTE] I think the amount of white people compared to other races really depends on where you go. If the area is for the majority white then it's not really a surprise that most people there will be white, it doesn't instantly mean that people are being discriminated against.

[QUOTE=Squad;34634927]How is it equality if not everyone has the same opportunity to get the same thing? [/QUOTE] that's funny because the reason affirmative action exists is because black people don't have the same opportunity as white people. you're acting like white people are the ones that have less opportunity now. just so you know, that's pretty stupid. just being white means you have better credit.

Where I live, there's a black majority. I identify as mixed race, but because of the colour of my hair I got very fair skin, when I should actually have brown skin. So I am seen as a white guy. Seems like every job I've worked at I've had black managers, and it's sad to see that I worked in some of these places for upwards of a couple of years, working my ass off, not getting a promotion, when a black counterpart would get a promotion within a couple of months. Not to mention one of these black counterparts stole from customers and was pretty slow in his work. After asking around with white workers and a few black ones (oh and that one filipino guy...) we came to the conclusion that there was some discrimination going on, and it wasn't blatant at all. The only proof I had was a general agreement amongst other employees: Circumstantial at best. The place in question never lets whites get very far up the ladder. But I think it's a shame that in this area, blacks have went from being below contempt, to being on equal footing with whites, only to go and make the same mistakes whites made. Martin Luther King would be sick to his fucking stomach if he could see what's going on. After all, he wanted his children and grandchildren to play alongside white children, not stop them from being in the park. Also, there was just a brownout that knocked out the cable for a few seconds. Wonder if this will go through...

this sort of thing happened to my uncle years ago, except that he's a cop

[QUOTE=thisispain;34645974]that's funny because the reason affirmative action exists is because black people don't have the same opportunity as white people. you're acting like white people are the ones that have less opportunity now. just so you know, that's pretty stupid. just being white means you have better credit.[/QUOTE] I have to agree with Zeke, however there is more and more evidence showing just people in general don't have an equal chance.

Shit happens all the time. Just because some asshole group of minorities can't test high enough society has to make them feel better and lower the bar. So instead of them all improving you are letting those who aren't qualified lead those who are. It's unfair. Unjust. And honestly in our Police Force, Fire Departments, and Emergency Response teams it is all too common. Man up. Just because your black doesn't mean you should be an exception. You can be any fucking color of the rainbow, I don't care. Learn. Work. And _earn_ it like everyone else.