It's a terrifying experience, but there is no real danger to the person who gets it.
[QUOTE=Ridge;25895001]It's a terrifying experience, but there is no real danger to the person who gets it.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding#Mental_and_physical_effects[/url]
Since it can even cause death, there is in fact alot of danger to the person who gets it.
[QUOTE=Ridge;25895001]It's a terrifying experience, but there is no real danger to the person who gets it.[/QUOTE]
You don't need actual danger to create the sense that you are about to die. That said, I think very brief torture may be effective, just enough to mess with their head and scare them with the torture, but not enough to actually cause any mental or physical damage. Nothing on the scale of what has been done though.
[QUOTE=Ridge;25895001]It's a terrifying experience, but there is no real danger to the person who gets it.[/QUOTE]
unless you count psychological trauma as dangerous (which you should)
[editline]6th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=dogmachines;25895096]I think very brief torture may be effective, just enough to mess with their head and scare them with the torture, but not enough to actually cause any mental or physical damage.[/QUOTE]
dangerous mode of thinking
where do you draw the line?
[QUOTE=JerryK;25884767]going into a war with a country to gain oil and fucking up the US in general is a tad bit worse than Clinton having an affair[/QUOTE]
oh yes because Clinton didn't authorize strikes against the Taliban either
and I'm sure Bush also stole computers and silverware on leaving The White House.
[QUOTE=Mr.Dounut;25899896]
and I'm sure Bush also stole computers and silverware on leaving The White House.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/fax-machine-copierfax.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=JerryK;25884767]going into a war with a country to gain oil and fucking up the US in general is a tad bit worse than Clinton having an affair[/QUOTE]
Which country did we go to war with for oil?
What are these other two enhanced interrogation techniques?
I'm curious now.
[QUOTE=Ridge;25900193]Which country did we go to war with for oil?[/QUOTE]
Iraq. The Bush administration believed Saddam Husein was going to blow up the oil fields. So the original reason for invading was to prevent that.
I understand his motivations on why he authorized it but...it's still fucking horrible.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;25885271]Lisa[/QUOTE]
Ahahaha!
[sp]what a story mark[/sp]
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;25900493]Iraq. The Bush administration believed Saddam Husein was going to blow up the oil fields. So the original reason for invading was to prevent that.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/stupid/1267627142110.jpg[/IMG]
And where did you learn that?
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;25900810]Ahahaha!
[sp]what a story mark[/sp][/QUOTE]
Yeah you can say that again.
[QUOTE=skynrdfan2;25885522]itt: people who have never been waterboarded[/QUOTE]
speaking as someone who has almost drowned before, i would never authorize the use of something like that against terrorist suspects.
i like to think of bush as darth vader and dick cheney as the emperor quite frankly
[QUOTE=Carne;25880778]Glad I live in Europe, where we don't have to result in torture to get information.[/QUOTE]
Yep, instead you just deport an entire race.
[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;25881410]The idea that we should erode basic human decency for safety is foolish and unwise. I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said "those who would give away their freedoms for security, deserve no freedom"[/QUOTE]
Benjamin Franklin, actually.
[editline]7th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Swilly;25884418]He messed up, at least he admits it.[/QUOTE]
what? when?
[editline]7th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sottalytober;25884508]Everyone messes up. It's just that every time the president messes up the whole fucking country hears about it.[/QUOTE]
Except this guy excelled in fuck ups. he WAS a fuck up.
[editline]7th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Swilly;25884806]Actually, you can't blame him for most of those things...its up to the Senate and House to allow most of the shit he fucked up on. So in reality...blame them.[/QUOTE]
Congress APPROVES shit.
Say a guy murders another guy and the court system lets him go.
Is it right to say the murderer is perfectly fine because the courts allowed it?
[editline]7th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ridge;25885339]Faking drowning is a helluva lot better than what al Qaeda and the Taliban does to their POWs...[/QUOTE]
Oh sure, it's better than what a terrorist group does, therefore it's ok.
"We only gauge ONE eye out, but hey, it's ok cuz our enemy cuts both out. k?"
[editline]7th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Thom12255;25889968]Bush lost the house in 2006 so you could say, blame democrats not Bush for what happened after that.[/QUOTE]
Oh sure, Congress makes EVERY decision. The President just poses for pictures and rolls his sleeves up and smiles all the time.
[editline]7th November 2010[/editline]
I will blame congress for ALLOWING him to run amuck, not for the muck.
The not caring of what he see's as evil terrorist murderers isn't as bad as you guys think.
[QUOTE=Ridge;25895001]It's a terrifying experience, but there is no real danger to the person who gets it.[/QUOTE]
Except the whole it can kill you, thing.
[editline]7th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ridge;25900193]Which country did we go to war with for oil?[/QUOTE]
None, Ridge. Everything is fine, go back to bed.
Water-boarding is horrific, sure. It's traumatic, and it can kill you. Can't pretend water-boarding is a good thing. However, if you can use it as a tool to save lives, I think it's worth it.
"But, what about the detainee? Doesn't anyone care about them?" Sorry, but it's the lesser of two evils. In a hypothetical situation, I would waterboard one man to have him reveal information to save the lives of many, if there was no other viable option.
Hey, if torture gets the answers, why not?
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;25906269]Water-boarding is horrific, sure. It's traumatic, and it can kill you. Can't pretend water-boarding is a good thing. However, if you can use it as a tool to save lives, I think it's worth it.
"But, what about the detainee? Doesn't anyone care about them?" Sorry, but it's the lesser of two evils. In a hypothetical situation, I would waterboard one man to have him reveal information to save the lives of many, if there was no other viable option.[/QUOTE]
My father sent me a quote ages ago after we were discussing a 24 episode.
It was about torture. The quote was from an ex-federal agent (i forget the branch; methinks military intelligence). He said he would torture a man if he knew it would save lives, but he also said he would want to be brought to justice
[editline]7th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=mbutler2;25906407]Hey, if torture gets the answers, why not?[/QUOTE]
because most of the time it gets wrong answers and it's fucking unethical?
[QUOTE=Warhol;25906412]My father sent me a quote ages ago after we were discussing a 24 episode.
It was about torture. The quote was from an ex-federal agent (i forget the branch; methinks military intelligence). He said he would torture a man if he knew it would save lives, but he also said he would want to be brought to justice
[editline]7th November 2010[/editline]
because most of the time it gets wrong answers and it's fucking unethical?[/QUOTE]
Now torture is wrong most all the time, but not when it is to save more lives and get answers. Come on bro, we can't treat them nicely going "we need the answers and we are willing to hurt you a bit, not too much though ;("
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;25906269]Water-boarding is horrific, sure. It's traumatic, and it can kill you. Can't pretend water-boarding is a good thing. However, if you can use it as a tool to save lives, I think it's worth it.
"But, what about the detainee? Doesn't anyone care about them?" Sorry, but it's the lesser of two evils. In a hypothetical situation, I would waterboard one man to have him reveal information to save the lives of many, if there was no other viable option.[/QUOTE]
Very Christian of you.
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25906454]Now torture is wrong most all the time, but not when it is to save more lives and get answers. Come on bro, we can't treat them nicely going "we need the answers and we are willing to hurt you a bit, not too much though ;("[/QUOTE]
You missed the fucking point. Way to go.
You are a master of the comprehension
NO ONE is saying to treat them nicely. We are fucking saying don't abuse them and the quote I talked about said: torture them, get answers, prosecute me.
Not only that, Torture is SO fucking ineffective.
[QUOTE=Warhol;25906505]You missed the fucking point. Way to go.
You are a master of the comprehension
NO ONE is saying to treat them nicely. We are fucking saying don't abuse them and the quote I talked about said: torture them, get answers, prosecute me.
Not only that, Torture is SO fucking ineffective.[/QUOTE]
I missed the point because I don't really read all the way through threads, sorry. Yes indeedie do. Don't abuse them? How are we supposed to get any answers if we don't hurt them, or scare them into it or something? And who says? I'd be prone to giving away all my knowledge after being hurt A LOT
[QUOTE=Warhol;25905866]
Usual giant warhol reply[/QUOTE]
Bush wasn't thaaaat bad. He meant well but it just didn't end well.
Plus, how can you not love him? I love his humor
[img]http://donstuff.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/bush-funny-face.jpg[/img]
[img]http://lh6.ggpht.com/_kq9_KzgnxKY/SUnVEQfbt2I/AAAAAAAAAi8/HwMHcjubJIc/s400/bush-funny-face-2.jpg[/img]
republicans: mental torture is alright physical torture isn't so bad either (as long as it benefits amurica) but those damn democrats complain about it so lets stick to the mental torture.
my dad has said these exact words (he's a conservative republican): "if it saves 1 american life then you can 'torture' them(he thinks every muslim is some extremist card-holding member of the taliban/al-queda) however you want." :colbert:
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25906546]I missed the point because I don't really read all the way through threads, sorry. Yes indeedie do. Don't abuse them? How are we supposed to get any answers if we don't hurt them, or scare them into it or something? And who says? I'd be prone to giving away all my knowledge after being hurt A LOT[/QUOTE]
Guess what, hurt them enough, they'll fucking tell you anything.
More likely than not, it's not true.
Don't justify torture because our enemies would do the same thing to us. That would just lower us to their level. The only reason we're the "good guys" is because we wouldn't.
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