Open letter to parents of League of Legends players released - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;47124359]its the same as if a kid was playing football or basketball with his friends imo[/QUOTE] I never understood and really fucking hate that "it's just a game" attitude. People crying over losing a football match: "Oh he's just really into it". People crying over a character in a movie dying: "isn't this done well? You really connect and feel sad". People getting emotional in any way over a videogame: "lol it's just a game who cares". I fucking care. Especially when I played competitive there were times where I'd spent MONTHS playing with the same 5 guys for hours per evening 5 nights a week as practice and official matches, and I'm not counting the hours spent fucking about or playing other games yet. You become buds and talk outside those hours as well, with subjects ranging from games to pets to personal issues if you become good friends. So when my team died? I cried my eyes out. These guys were my friends, as real as the people at school or work. Just because I only talk to them online doesn't make that friendship any less real, and it sure as fuck doesn't make it hurt any less when the team falls apart and I won't get to spend nearly as much time with them as I did.

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;47124982] [IMG]http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/i-BZDHjvC/0/1050x10000/i-BZDHjvC-1050x10000.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Holy shit this is missing the point hard.

[QUOTE=archangel125;47124940]If you read my post very carefully, it was preceded by two words. "I think". Usually, when you read that, it implies that the statement being made is an opinion. Any more questions?[/QUOTE] Actually that's true but if you actually read what you'd written you'd see that you're defining the entertainment in this thread as "entertainment for relaxation", which is an opinion. To be more upfront than before, it's an opinion that very few share.

[QUOTE=Mbbird;47125859]Actually that's true but if you actually read what you'd written you'd see that you're defining the entertainment in this thread as "entertainment for relaxation", which is an opinion. To be more upfront than before, it's an opinion that very few share.[/QUOTE] So basically they said their unpopular opinion? I don't see the big deal.

[QUOTE=RustyGears;47125907]So basically they said their unpopular opinion? I don't see the big deal.[/QUOTE] it's in this thread, there's no ambiguity. [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1450875&p=47124902&viewfull=1#post47124902[/url] read and try again [editline]12th February 2015[/editline] not that you even got the point of mine [editline]12th February 2015[/editline] I'm sorry i dont care about this enough to bother think what you want

[QUOTE=Fetret;47125210]This is exactly the reason why I never raided properly even though I played WoW for about 8 years. When I was living with my parents I never had the same block of uninterrupted 2-3 hour gaming slot other people seemed to have and I never bothered to go against my parents about it. In my mind having dinner with them was more important than playing with 39/24/19 other people that I didn't really know and since I couldn't make the commitment I pretty much played solo or did instances here and there and I still had a fucking great time. But the problem is (apart from the "letter" not being from an official Riot poster) do you really believe any (or at least most) parent will take this seriously enough to not bother their son/daughter while playing? [B]The responsibility lies with the children in this case. If you think you are mature or developed enough to play the game you should be the one making time for it, whether it is getting all your chores done beforehand or deciding that tonight is not a good time to play because there might be something coming up.[/B] I still don't understand why the letter wasn't addressed to kids playing the game, rather than the parents. Probably because the kids mentioned in the letter are children with very little sense of responsibility (both towards other gamers and towards their family). In the end the letter is a non-solution to a problem that begins and ends with the player not anyone around them.[/QUOTE] Just because I happened to stay at home to play games doesn't mean I am able to do everything at the very second based on something very irregular. For one example: This one friday night about a year ago I did my chores, cooked for the entire family, made a massive house-cleanup, (parents were about to have a houseparty that night with handful of friends, watch icehockey or something.) I knew that there would be nothing else planned for me within the hour, so I hit up for some Dota with friends. 30 minutes later, parents decided that they absolutely need to have more alcohol, 2 vodka bottles and lots of beers + ciders and the sorts didn't happen to be enough. Naturally, because I am sitting in my room, playing, I am always ready to be of service for them in a random whim right? Because of that I must drive them to the liquor store [U]at the very instant[/U] because they happened to be hammered as fuck and they can't drive to the nearest one 1 kilometer away. Sure, I can drive them as soon as the match ends, estimated about 10-15 minutes later maximum. Nothing can go wrong? Nope, they need their alcohol [B]RIGHT NOW[/B] so they cut the power in the entire house as a punishment for me within 1 minute of me requesting to wait for 15 minutes. Children are dumb right? They always disobey their parents, are mean cuntsacks and have absolutely no respect for their parents. Each and every one of them. Nothing personal towards you, I just throw this one out there to consider about the matter.

This is why I can't really get into MOBAs - when you don't have a huge amount of free time it can be a little difficult to keep playing into a longer match, and if you disconnect you basically screw over everyone who was playing with you. It might sound kinda weird, but if you disconnected, could someone else in the queue take over your player for you? Is that an okay idea?

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;47125766]I never understood and really fucking hate that "it's just a game" attitude. People crying over losing a football match: "Oh he's just really into it". People crying over a character in a movie dying: "isn't this done well? You really connect and feel sad". People getting emotional in any way over a videogame: "lol it's just a game who cares". I fucking care. Especially when I played competitive there were times where I'd spent MONTHS playing with the same 5 guys for hours per evening 5 nights a week as practice and official matches, and I'm not counting the hours spent fucking about or playing other games yet. You become buds and talk outside those hours as well, with subjects ranging from games to pets to personal issues if you become good friends. So when my team died? I cried my eyes out. These guys were my friends, as real as the people at school or work. Just because I only talk to them online doesn't make that friendship any less real, and it sure as fuck doesn't make it hurt any less when the team falls apart and I won't get to spend nearly as much time with them as I did.[/QUOTE] Written above the reason I quitted Dota 2 a week ago or so (Just don't rat me out to the Dota 2 general thread, please?) To be more precise and dodge a shitstorm, I'm against the serious business attitude and not the opportunity to forge friendship via a videogame

[QUOTE=TestECull;47124199]I agree. I also have a counterpoint to this counterpoint: Stop taking MOBAs so damned seriously. Statistically speaking the chances of any one random League player going 'pro' is on par with winning a decent chunk from the lottery. 99.999% of the people playing these sorts of games are never going to see a single cent reach their wallet from what they do in said game, and most are playing it as a way to relax. So relax. Don't take it so damned seriously that one person DCing from the match ruins your day. Big fucking deal you lost [i]one[/i] match because of a mid-game DC. The world's gonna keep right on turning, no need to get upset over it.[/QUOTE] this might seem like a fair point but league of legends and other similar games are not like most multiplayer games. it's not like battlefield where you can do a match and have fun for 30 minutes then end up losing. the whole point of a moba is basically to try to win, there's hardly anything engaging about the experience leading up to that win. the reason league of legends got so popular is because it's a largely competitive game that doesn't require you to spend hundreds of hours perfecting your aim like quake or counter strike would. so for the most part, winning is the only thing people enjoy.

[QUOTE=The golden;47125747]Nobody likes it, but getting angry or wishing punishment upon those who have to leave to attend to non-game matters is, in my opinion, petty and selfish. Especially considering the people that remain in the game can simply continue playing or find match/server/round/whatever and be back playing again quickly. It's annoying when someone leaves but it's even more annoying when someone tries to tell you that the things they want are more important than the things you need to get done.[/QUOTE] Can you guys stop with these strawmen? Win/lose ratio, standing/stats, "the match is not more important than real life things you need to do", "your family is more important than the match", etc. This is not the point and nobody is saying that the match is objectively more important than doing your chores. The point is, when you get into a match with other people which is going to take 30+ minutes and you can't be replaced, when you leave you will ruin the enjoyment for everyone else in that match. And they can't continue playing, they need to start over and maybe they don't have time for another match. Not all chores need to be done RIGHT THIS MOMENT, they can wait 15 minutes and nothing bad will happen. You can teach your kid to do their chores on time even if you do let them finish the match. Just ground the fucker afterwards. There is no fucking need to ruin the fun and waste time of 9 other people. There needs to be incentive for the players to make sure they have the time for the entire match. I like the CS:GO competitive's cooldown if you leave the match. It's perfectly reasonable.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;47126048]this might seem like a fair point but league of legends and other similar games are not like most multiplayer games. it's not like battlefield where you can do a match and have fun for 30 minutes then end up losing. the whole point of a moba is basically to try to win, there's hardly anything engaging about the experience leading up to that win. the reason league of legends got so popular is because it's a largely competitive game that doesn't require you to spend hundreds of hours perfecting your aim like quake or counter strike would. so for the most part, winning is the only thing people enjoy.[/QUOTE] While being on the losing side of a MOBA match is an experience I won't wish even upon my worst enemy and humans have a sense of competition in their very blood, there ARE people who don't take losing too bad (provided it was a great match and everything was fair and square) and don't feel the urge to insult the opponent and their team alike if things go badly If you ask me, the main problem of MOBA games is that the rampaging competition spirit of most of their playerbases make the games downright unplayable for the people above

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;47126067]There needs to be incentive for the players to make sure they have the time for the entire match. I like the CS:GO competitive's cooldown if you leave the match. It's perfectly reasonable.[/QUOTE] In Dota 2 you get put in the low priority matchmaking pool if you abandon a match twice in a week. What this means is: it usually takes longer to find a match, cosmetic items don't drop(although due to how the drop system worked they hardly dropped anyways), and you get put in a pool full of people who abandon matches(this usually means that they have bad internet or are rage quitters). [QUOTE=EliaMoroes;47125991]Written above the reason I quitted Dota 2 a week ago or so (Just don't rat me out to the Dota 2 general thread, please?) To be more precise and dodge a shitstorm, I'm against the serious business attitude and not the opportunity to forge friendship via a videogame[/QUOTE] You will be back.

[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;47126090]While being on the losing side of a MOBA match is an experience I won't wish even upon my worst enemy and humans have a sense of competition in their very blood, there ARE people who don't take losing too bad (provided it was a great match and everything was fair and square) and don't feel the urge to insult the opponent and their team alike if things go badly If you ask me, the main problem of MOBA games is that the rampaging competition spirit of most of their playerbases make the games downright unplayable for the people above[/QUOTE] my point wasn't that people lose their minds when they lose. but for the majority of the user base, when they lose a match they've essentially wasted the time they used to play that match because they didn't get anything out of it. obviously there are people who try to have a more positive attitude about it but what I'm saying is that it isn't a very good point to tell people to just not take mobas so seriously. better advice would be to avoid playing them at all, because 90% of what a game like league of legends has to offer is the thrill of winning a match.

[QUOTE=SinjinOmega;47125856]Holy shit this is missing the point hard.[/QUOTE] No, actually. He's just making the eternal parent joke of "raising you was so goddamn hard, kindly be grateful and STFU". Regardless, if you look at it from the parent's point of view (which very few of you are, it seems), well, let me put it this way: The letter is trying to say that for all these reasons, this game is too important to be interrupted. Because its with other people, because its ranked, whatever. Those are all entirely subjective things though. It felt just as terrible for you and your friends when your parents would yank you out of a UT match, or a D&D session, and yes, even a soccer game. And it was just as annoying when your parents made you turn off your SEGA to get dinner, or turn off the television and go to bed. Such is the life of kids. What look like the most important things in the world to you are not necessarily high in your parents' list of priorities. And then you get old enough that your parents trust you more with your time, and maybe you can, if you want, stay up all night and play or fap to porn or whatever, as long as you do your chores and keep your grades up. And then you move out and there's nothing stopping you from dedicating your life to gaming and fapping and growing a neckbeard and never showering again, except you maybe realize that if you want to get a job and hook up you should probably get some sleep, shower occasionally and study for a degree, or something. And then you marry, have children and the cycle is complete: good luck gaming when you need (and want!) to work, spend time with your family, have a decent dinner and put the screaming little fuckers to sleep. But the thing is, at this point in life it should be apparent that unless you're a professional MOBA player who does this for a living, all those other things in life *are* more important. So its not *such* a big deal that you can't game as much as you would have liked to. And with that understanding you also realize that the same is true for your kids, and that regardless of the many many good reasons they might think their time online is more important than what you think they should do (like eat, or sleep), it just isn't. Parents shouldn't care about anyone's ranking or gaming satisfaction when deciding when to let the kid use the computer, or when to ground him. Sane parents care about when their kid eats, sleeps, takes a shower, studies. You know, the boring parent stuff that keeps you alive and functioning and not a catass. And you can be angry about it now (and dumb this post like its cancer) , but one day you're gonna be a parent too, and odds are you'll make your kids just as angry when you force them to jack out of the cybermatrix and go the fuck to sleep.

I solved this problem two years ago by getting my father into LoL. Can't force me to stop playing if he's playing as well.

I have a friend afk in dota. For 30 minutes because his family want to eat together. Disconnecting is better in this case because then his hero can be controlled by our team and with sufficient micro skills the loss isn't great. But AFK is not. Another story is that we are in a middle of 5v5 game at weekends and basically my other friend just leave because of bedtime. But who do bedtime at weekends/holidays anyway? If it school day there is a risk of getting late to school because of waking up late, but its weekend, so there shouldn't be problem. Unless its repetitive, but I don't think he always stay up late. Worst case? The disconnecter is the primary carry. But I always tell my friend this. If you cannot guarantee that the next match is uninterruptible, then don't play dota. Play TF2 or something else, some game that we can drop in or out at anytime.

[QUOTE=GeneralSpecific;47124242]holy shit this letter will totally be seen by parents and they will totally change their behavior because of reading this and this is totally a legitimate issue.[/QUOTE] If there's anything parents love more than their own children, it's being told by other people how they should handle their child.

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;47126200]No, actually. He's just making the eternal parent joke of "raising you was so goddamn hard, kindly be grateful and STFU". Regardless, if you look at it from the parent's point of view (which very few of you are, it seems), well, let me put it this way: The letter is trying to say that for all these reasons,this game is too important to be interrupted. Because its with other people, because its ranked, whatever. Those are all entirely subjective things though. It felt just as terrible for you and your friends when your parents would yank you out of a UT match, or a D&D session, and yes, even a soccer game. And it was just as annoying when your parents made you turn off your SEGA to get dinner, or turn off the television and go to bed. Such is the life of kids. What look like the most important things in the world to you are not necessarily high in your parents' list of priorities. And then you get old enough that your parents trust you more with your time, and maybe you can, if you want, stay up all night and play or fap to porn or whatever, as long as you do your chores and keep your grades up. And then you move out and there's nothing stopping you from dedicating your life to gaming and fapping and growing a neckbeard and never showering again, except you maybe realize that if you want to get a job and hook up you should probably get some sleep, shower occasionally and study for a degree, or something. And then you marry, have children and the cycle is complete: good luck gaming when you need (and want!) to work, spend time with your family, have a decent dinner and put the screaming little fuckers to sleep. But the thing is, at this point in life it should be apparent that unless you're a professional MOBA player who does this for a living, all those other things in life *are* more important. So its not *such* a big deal that you can't game as much as you would have liked to. And with that understanding you also realize that the same is true for your kids, and that regardless of the many many good reasons they might think their time online is more important than what you think they should do (like eat, or sleep), it just isn't. Parents shouldn't care about anyone's ranking or gaming satisfaction when deciding when to let the kid use the computer, or when to ground him. Sane parents care about when their kid eats, sleeps, takes a shower, studies. You know, the boring parent stuff that keeps you alive and functioning and not a catass. And you can be angry about it now (and dumb this post like its cancer) , but one day you're gonna be a parent too, and odds are you'll make your kids just as angry when you force them to jack out of the cybermatrix and go the fuck to sleep.[/QUOTE] I'm going to dumb your post because you've missed the point or made a strawman 15 times in it. "Growing a neckbeard and never showering again"? "professional MOBA player"? You are ridiculous.

[QUOTE=Belivo;47125942]Just because I happened to stay at home to play games doesn't mean I am able to do everything at the very second based on something very irregular. For one example: This one friday night about a year ago I did my chores, cooked for the entire family, made a massive house-cleanup, (parents were about to have a houseparty that night with handful of friends, watch icehockey or something.) I knew that there would be nothing else planned for me within the hour, so I hit up for some Dota with friends. 30 minutes later, parents decided that they absolutely need to have more alcohol, 2 vodka bottles and lots of beers + ciders and the sorts didn't happen to be enough. Naturally, because I am sitting in my room, playing, I am always ready to be of service for them in a random whim right? Because of that I must drive them to the liquor store [U]at the very instant[/U] because they happened to be hammered as fuck and they can't drive to the nearest one 1 kilometer away. Sure, I can drive them as soon as the match ends, estimated about 10-15 minutes later maximum. Nothing can go wrong? Nope, they need their alcohol [B]RIGHT NOW[/B] so they cut the power in the entire house as a punishment for me within 1 minute of me requesting to wait for 15 minutes. Children are dumb right? They always disobey their parents, are mean cuntsacks and have absolutely no respect for their parents. Each and every one of them. Nothing personal towards you, I just throw this one out there to consider about the matter.[/QUOTE] I'm sure you can appreciate driving your drunk parents to pick up vodka and beer/cider is not something a person would encounter very often in their daily lives (hopefully) and I didn't mean to imply kids are dumb or that they disobey their parents at every turn, I'm really sorry if you took offence never meant to cause any. But there is always going to be scenarios where something absolutely essential pops up in the last second. That is life and there is not much you can do about it. But my point still stands, if you are mature enough to play an online game with other people where your presence or absence makes such a significant impact on other players gameplay then it is your responsibility to minimise the distractions. Let me ask you, would this letter have changed anything in your scenario? Would it have added anything to your argument trying to convince your parents to wait 10-15 more minutes? I'm pretty sure if you can't convince your parents how important the game is to you, some random post from someone they never heard of is not going to make much difference. And again I repeat if you are not sure you can spare the time (for example if these alcohol runs are a regular occurrence) then you either disobey/go against your parents or don't start playing in the first place. Again the responsibility falls on the player, people around you don't have to accommodate your fun just like you don't always have to go through with what your parents are saying.

I think the best solution would be to ban anybody who disconnects for a few days. It'd encourage better planning on kids parts.

It's hilarious how many people who are saying "the point is..." don't themselves get the point. The REAL point is no one gives a shit. No parent is going to base his or her decisions about what their kid has to do(sleep/homework/etc) on whether or not the kid is playing a game. That's why the letter is so hilarious. It's told from the point of view that parents will take into account the needs of random people online playing a [i]game[/i] with their kid. The self importance of that point of view is awesomely funny.

Reading this thread makes me realize how lucky I am to have reasonable parents. More on topic though, I think they would have been better off encouraging children to explain to their parents that they are playing with other people, and that leaving a game before it finishes not only negatively affects their own playing experience, but also 9 other people's as well. Now, I doubt that would have a significant impact either, but it would likely be more effective than writing a letter to people who probably won't see it. Another direction it could propose would be to encourage children to tell their parents "I'm going to be busy for the next 45 minutes or so, is there anything you want me to do before hand?" or what not, thus opening up a two way communication channel to help avoid "unexpected' but not unpredictable interruptions. As to the "it's just a game" point of view; yes, it is just a game but it still never the less effects other real people in real life. Sometimes unexpected things do just come up in real life that take priority, that's understandable and to say players should always prioritize the game over "real life" is extremely selfish in my opinion. More generally, each person will have their own view of how important a match of LoL is relative to other things in their life, which I find perfectly reasonable. However, if you find that you have to leave a game early because some other real life event more often than not and yet you continue to play, I view that as being selfish as well because you're effectively saying that you don't care about ruining the enjoyment of the game for 9 other players so that you can get some enjoyment out of playing the game. If that means you can't play due to other real life events, well that sucks, but ruining the majority of the matches you play for the 9 other people in them sucks even more. And if playing LoL is that important to you, perhaps you should reexamine where LoL fits in relative to those other things which tend to come up.

when i was like 10 i was doing my first raid in WoW My mom told me I was grounded in the middle of it, for not going to bed on time(It was 9 on the dot, I was up at like 9:10 or some shit. I said "i will when i'm done, it'll only be like an extra hour mom! My party needs me!" i wasnt able to play on the pc for a week :( She kind of forgot I could easily sneak around my DS, at least. I still have her interrupt me in games like Dota, CSGO, and even more casual games like Killing Floor and its so annoying. The trash can wait until I die to be taken out, I feed anyway!

[QUOTE=Kommodore;47124287]it's just a videogame[/QUOTE] It baffles me to see ignorance of this scale in a gaming forum

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47127768]It baffles me to see ignorance of this scale in a gaming forum[/QUOTE] well, they are videogames. whether or not they are "just" videogames is up to you, really.

I mean, competitive games like LoL obviously isn't going to design their game around your schedule, so if you can't "commit" (and yes, some other competitive games already do this) to the game you're about to play, then don't play it. Because face it: esports is happening: the International was a thing, Dreamhack was a thing, there's already been a ton of quake tournaments, smash tournaments, you name it. Pretending it doesn't exist isn't gonna do any good. I make fun about people taking videogames too seriously all the time but it's just in the nature of competitive games for people to be serious; it's ranked, meaning how you play is stuck with you forever. Of course people want to look good.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;47127518]It's hilarious how many people who are saying "the point is..." don't themselves get the point. The REAL point is no one gives a shit. No parent is going to base his or her decisions about what their kid has to do(sleep/homework/etc) on whether or not the kid is playing a game. That's why the letter is so hilarious. It's told from the point of view that parents will take into account the needs of random people online playing a [I]game[/I] with their kid. The self importance of that point of view is awesomely funny.[/QUOTE] I dunno man. Parents usually think that you are playing by yourself and if you quit at any time nothing and no one except you will be influenced by it. 10 years ago when I was playing WoW my mum decided that I have to do something I think it was homework that wasn't due in like 3 days, RIGHT NOW because I can "play it later" and she would not believe me that I'm leading 39 actual people and I can't take a break now without fucking it up for all of them. But when I asked them all to say something prove to her that I actually am doing what I said I'm doing she did let me finish it. I don't know about other parents but after that mine understood that I'm not always playing alone and that sometimes I can't take a break immediately. This letter is trying to do that. Stop acting like everything that your mum told you to do absolutely had to be done right when she said it or the world would collapse. Also it's not a very good lesson to teach your child that your wit (that the dishes have to be washed right now and cannot under any circumstance be washed in 15 minutes) is more important that not being inconsiderate for other people. Maybe in 10 years he's going to think "no one gives a shit about something like [url=http://i.imgur.com/JPvHi25.jpg?1]that[/url], it's just a [U][I]parking spot.[/I][/U] " Also you don't let your kid go play a match of basketball with some set teams and points that kids care about where he can't be replaced when he's going to bed in 1 hour. But you do let him play video game where the match can take more than 1 hour and he can't be replaced. This letter is also talking about this. It's basically asking the parents to treat that particular game as if it was a basketball match with set teams where players can't be replaced. I don't think the message is stupid but it will never reach the people they want to reach. That's something you can criticize. The argument "nobody gives a shit lol it's just a [I][U][B]game[/B][/U][/I]" is just crap. What does it matter if it's a game or not? It's completely beside the point. We're talking about fucking something up for other people, it could be million other things than a video game and it would not change anything.

In a world where we can't expect grown adults to not do seriously criminal things like have sex with underage kids, we're supposed to act as if kids should be expected to not commit to playing a game unless they can complete it? Haha, no. If people could be counted on to behave appropriately the world would be a huge utopia, which it obviously isn't. I don't see how people don't understand this. If competitive and team games are your thing, it's imperative that you find or build a team of people you know you can rely on. That's YOUR responsibility, not the parent's responsibility. [QUOTE=Silly Sil;47128040]The argument "nobody gives a shit lol it's just a [I][U][B]game[/B][/U][/I]" is just crap. What does it matter if it's a game or not? It's completely beside the point. We're talking about fucking something up for other people, it could be million other things than a video game and it would not change anything.[/QUOTE] Flip it around. You are the parent. You need your kid to do something right now. He's playing a game. You're telling me your thought process is "Well, those random internet people NEED him right now so I'll just wait my turn"? "Need" meaning to play a game...a [i]game[/i]. I don't think a lot of parents are up on taking second place to a game.

It's the right way to get the point across, at least. A parent wouldn't pull their kid out of soccer practice or whatever mid-game, for example.

[QUOTE=latin_geek;47128089]It's the right way to get the point across, at least. A parent wouldn't pull their kid out of soccer practice or whatever mid-game, for example.[/QUOTE] That's not a good analogy because the kid is at soccer practice with the parent's permission and probably even approval(exercise being healthy and all). Online gaming, unless the parent is also into it, is a foreign thing to most parents. It's something they tolerate, not something they see as important in any way. A kid might as well be saying "Let me finish texting my friend" in terms of how important playing online games are to parents.