Open letter to parents of League of Legends players released - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;47129663]he's saying a parent should have authority over their child, i don't see anything crazy or fucked up about that[/QUOTE] That's not what he's saying at all and I don't think even he realizes this And don't worry, I know you don't

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;47129663]he's saying a parent should have authority over their child, i don't see anything crazy or fucked up about that[/QUOTE] No one ever said they shouldn't though.

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47129693]That's not what he's saying at all and I don't think even he realizes this And don't worry, I know you don't[/QUOTE] nah that's exactly what he's saying he's saying children should respect their parents' authority. this doesn't exclude a relationship with mutual respect, by the way [editline]13th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Raidyr;47129701]No one ever said they shouldn't though.[/QUOTE] yeah but fetusfondler is acting like that statement is insane when it sounds pretty reasonable i haven't checked the rest of the discussion but there's nothing terrible about that post specifically

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;47129704]nah that's exactly what he's saying[/QUOTE] it's not even close to what he's saying he's saying whatever their child is doing, whether or not it affects other people, is less important because what they say is always automatically more important. that is not reasonable, that's overbearingly strict. "do what I say, no questions" is one of the worst ways to build respect.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;47129704] yeah but fetusfondler is acting like that statement is insane when it sounds pretty reasonable [/QUOTE] You're missing the point

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47129739]You're missing the point[/QUOTE] what is the point

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;47128621]Once again, you're missing the point. If I'm the parent and I'm telling my kid to do something right now, it is by default important because [B]I'm[/B] the one telling him. The people online, whether it's in a game or videochat or livestream, they are all irrelevant. They certainly do not take priority over what I tell my kid to do.[/QUOTE] I'm not missing the point. Your whim (from the perspective of the parent) that the dishes have to be done NOW and can't be done in 15 minutes is more important to you than fucking up the fun of 9 strangers. You don't care that your whim is going to fuck something up for 9 strangers. Lets turn the [I]game [/I]into something else. Say you are on a beach, and there's 9 people next to you making a big [I]sandcastle [/I]and they've been on it for an hour already. You want your kid to bring you something, doesn't matter what but it could wait 15 minutes. Unfortunately something, doesn't matter what, is blocking the path and the only way to get to the thing you want is through the [I]sandcastle[/I]. The obstacle that's blocking the way is going to be gone in 15 minutes. You can either wait 15 minutes and then tell the kid to go get the thing or you can tell him to trample the [I]sandcastle [/I]and get the thing right now. I understand you would pick option nr 2 because it's just a [I]sandcastle [/I]and nobody gives a shit, family and real life are more important than a [I]sandcastle [/I]and bringing the thing right now is more important than the [I]sandcastle[/I] because[B] you're[/B] the one with that whim. While I would wait because I think my whim is less important that fucking something up for 9 other people. It's funny that you talk about self-importance and how all people are bad and can't be counted on and yet your whim that your kid has to do something NOW is more important that not fucking something up for 9 other people. [QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;47128621]If you need someone to commit to X amount of time to do whatever it is you require, it's up to you to find such a person. It's unrealistic and unreasonable to expect other people to enforce rules that keep your players in line for you. That's all I'm saying.[/QUOTE] I'm not expecting the parent to make sure the kid stays in game for the whole duration. I expect the parent not to fuck up my game because the dishes have to be done by the kid NOW and can't wait 15 minutes. What a terrible strawman.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;47129756]what is the point[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Bernie Buddy;47129731]it's not even close to what he's saying he's saying whatever their child is doing, whether or not it affects other people, is less important because what they say is always automatically more important. that is not reasonable, that's overbearingly strict. "do what I say, no questions" is one of the worst ways to build respect.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47129956]"do what I say, no questions" [/QUOTE] except he never said it should be like that. he never said your kid has no right to question you. he never said he'd tell his kid "don't do it" and leave it at that. literally all he said is that a parent's authority matters more than a videogame

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;47130020]literally all he said is that a parent's authority matters more than a videogame[/QUOTE] 1. That's a stupid strawman. No one here cares that the game is going to be fucked for the kid. The parent has the authority to make the kid do other things instead of playing a [I]videogame[/I]. We're talking about fucking something up for other people, not for the kid. You're acting like my parents did over 10 years ago who had no idea about video games and did not understand I wasn't playing alone. 2. He said that other people are irrelevant when he wants his kid to do something. He doesn't care if his command for the kid is going to fuck something up for strangers. His command has to be done right now, nothing else matters.

why dont the lol devs just implement this from dota 2 [img]http://i.imgur.com/8eMXJPv.png[/img] player abandons for <reasons> and gets a mark on their account for it (enough marks = dota hell for a few games) , this means the game is safe to leave for everyone else and doesnt effect ranking.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;47131658]1. That's a stupid strawman. No one here cares that the game is going to be fucked for the kid. The parent has the authority to make the kid do other things instead of playing a [I]videogame[/I]. We're talking about fucking something up for other people, not for the kid. You're acting like my parents did over 10 years ago who had no idea about video games and did not understand I wasn't playing alone. 2. He said that other people are irrelevant when he wants his kid to do something. He doesn't care if his command for the kid is going to fuck something up for strangers. His command has to be done right now, nothing else matters.[/QUOTE] I would say it is about the kid as much as the other people in some cases; like, if the kid starts a game of whatever knowing that dinner start be before they will probably be able to finish the game, then yea it's the kids fault and they should be punished. But, if it's just some random activity that the kid had no way of predicting would need to be done, then why should the kid be actively punished when they did nothing wrong (if said activity could wait)?

[QUOTE=DaMastez;47131738]I would say it is about the kid as much as the other people in some cases; like, if the kid starts a game of whatever knowing that dinner start be before they will probably be able to finish the game, then yea it's the kids fault and they should be punished. But, if it's just some random activity that the kid had no way of predicting would need to be done, then why should the kid be actively punished when they did nothing wrong (if said activity could wait)?[/QUOTE] I completely agree with your logic there however if it's only between the child and the parent, we have no say in it. We can't tell the parent how to raise their child, we can only ask them as a person, not to fuck things up for us indirectly.

[QUOTE=Wii60;47131702]why dont the lol devs just implement this from dota 2 [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8eMXJPv.png[/IMG] player abandons for <reasons> and gets a mark on their account for it (enough marks = dota hell for a few games) , this means the game is safe to leave for everyone else and doesnt effect ranking.[/QUOTE] Not all defending the devs, but I think they've said that they 1) don't like 'prisoners island' as a punishment for players and 2) don't like the DotA leave system because they believe it will encourage players to bully others into leaving.

[QUOTE=Wii60;47131702]why dont the lol devs just implement this from dota 2 [img]http://i.imgur.com/8eMXJPv.png[/img] player abandons for <reasons> and gets a mark on their account for it (enough marks = dota hell for a few games) , this means the game is safe to leave for everyone else and doesnt effect ranking.[/QUOTE] Stats are still recorded iirc, just you don't get an abandon as well

MOBAs or not, asking someone to do something right now at this very second and then freaking out when it turns out that other person can not do that thing right now at this very second is unreasonable. you should also know the average length and honor your previous obligations though. One time I said I'd do something in 30 mins and started a dota match anyway. We were winning and it was fun but I shouldn't have started and I abandoned because that wasn't fair to the other person. One of the reasons I stopped playing dota was because 50-minute match lengths are kinda of ridiculous for the most part. Especially since those games are technically over at the 20 minute mark.

[QUOTE=TestECull;47124199]I agree. I also have a counterpoint to this counterpoint: Stop taking MOBAs so damned seriously. Statistically speaking the chances of any one random League player going 'pro' is on par with winning a decent chunk from the lottery. 99.999% of the people playing these sorts of games are never going to see a single cent reach their wallet from what they do in said game, and most are playing it as a way to relax. So relax. Don't take it so damned seriously that one person DCing from the match ruins your day. Big fucking deal you lost [i]one[/i] match because of a mid-game DC. The world's gonna keep right on turning, no need to get upset over it.[/QUOTE] This doesn't change the psychological affect a loss has on your brain. It's not relaxing if you're not having fun, as in you're being pubstomped because you're missing a vital character in the game. That is stressful and unnerving.

[QUOTE=Nukefuzz;47132510]This doesn't change the psychological affect a loss has on your brain. It's not relaxing if you're not having fun, as in you're being pubstomped because you're missing a vital character in the game. That is stressful and unnerving.[/QUOTE] If the game's stressing you then stop playing it for a bit. That's what I do when War Thunder throws its typical round of wonky bullshit at me. I don't turn into a toxic cancerous mass in chat, I don't start harassing the other players, I don't start spewing swear words and calling the rest of my team pathetic scrubs or anything like that. I just, and I know this is a novel thing to do for MOBA players, [i]close the game for a while[/i]. If I'm not having fun I'm not playing. And, okay, maybe I am a bit odd in some respects. I'd rather play ten losses I had fun in than have ten boring or stressful wins. I don't personally care if I win or lose, only that I enjoyed the trip to the results screen.

[QUOTE=TestECull;47132566]If the game's stressing you then stop playing it for a bit. That's what I do when War Thunder throws its typical round of wonky bullshit at me. I don't turn into a toxic cancerous mass in chat, I don't start harassing the other players, I don't start spewing swear words and calling the rest of my team pathetic scrubs or anything like that. I just, and I know this is a novel thing to do for MOBA players, [i]close the game for a while[/i]. If I'm not having fun I'm not playing. And, okay, maybe I am a bit odd in some respects. I'd rather play ten losses I had fun in than have ten boring or stressful wins. I don't personally care if I win or lose, only that I enjoyed the trip to the results screen.[/QUOTE] Well, Riot Games is trying to prevent leavers in the first place so nobody has a reason to be a cancerous asshole. Rather than let their playerbase try to handle it (because I'm sure they are well aware that the majority of players are morons), they are trying to take it into their own hands to prevent a big reason there are a lot of leavers.

isn't this what join-in-progess matchmaking is for

When a kid breaks a window, the owner of the window goes to the parent of the kid. We are used to dealing with parents when we don't like what the kid is doing. I don't think that applies to online gaming though. If I'm a parent, and you physically come to see me to explain what my kid did, I'm going to deal with it because you are a real person with a real issue that you are telling me about. This letter is the wrong approach because A)it doesn't directly reach the parent B)the game isn't 'real' and C)the damages aren't real. So your stats are affected, so what? It's a virtual activity with virtual stats, how do expect anyone except other game players to take that seriously? The only real approach is to address the players and teams. Hold the players accountable for securing blocks of time to play, and hold the teams accountable for the players they pick to be on their teams. If some kid tells his parent "I'm about to start a game, it'll take an hour, if I can't play for the next hour let me know now" most parents would respect that. It's because by letting the parent know what your plans are they can decide yes or no. This way they won't interrupt later, since they already gave the okay to play. Or at least the player wouldn't have started the game since the parent said no. This only works if the PLAYER takes responsibility though, not the parent. You'll notice in this scenario the parent is not asked to consider things like other people's stats, because those things are irrelevant. Either the kid can play for an hour or not, that's all that need be established.

There's nothing wrong with informing parents how league works so that they can more effectively schedule when a kid is allowed to play without being interrupted and interrupting a team because of dinner, bed, chores, etc. but acting like a person playing a game has a responsibility of any kind to his team or is a dick for leaving a [I]game[/I] because it's gonna "ruin everyone else's fun" is hilariously sad tbh. If your happiness is so intimately tied to having a well-matched game and you are not a professional player you need to calibrate your life priorities in all honesty. I am not indebted to teammates when I am playing a game. I am playing for my own enjoyment. If something else suddenly takes priority for me, deal with it.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;47133530]but acting like a person playing a game has a responsibility of any kind to his team or is a dick for leaving a [I]game[/I] because it's gonna "ruin everyone else's fun" is hilariously sad tbh. If your happiness is so intimately tied to having a well-matched game and you are not a professional player you need to calibrate your life priorities in all honesty. I am not indebted to teammates when I am playing a game. I am playing for my own enjoyment. If something else suddenly takes priority for me, deal with it.[/QUOTE] If everyone had this attitude these kind of games would be completely unplayable. If you can't manage to reliably dedicate 45 minutes of your time to a match you shouldn't be playing it in the first place. There's a reason games of this genre are extremely punishing towards leavers.

and then sometimes its like MOM I just want some chocolate milk and she's like no get it yourself and I'm like MOM IM PLAYING XBOX LIVE I CANT GET IT MYSELF and she's like I DONT CARE JUAT GRT YOUR OWN CHOCOLATE MILK and then I'm like NO MOM YOU DONT FUCKINF FET IT THIS IS ONLINE AND SERIOUS SHIT IF I GRT UP MY K/D GOES DOWN AND THAY AFFECTS ME and she's like I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS BUT GET YOUR OWN CHOCOLATE MILK and just like WHAYEVER man I HATE my parents I'm running away from hoem

[QUOTE=amgoz1;47133997]There's a reason games of this genre are extremely punishing towards leavers.[/QUOTE] And that should be plenty. Can't finish the match? Accept a penalty. No one has a responsibility to their video game pick up team. To think that they do is ridiculous. It is a video game. People have real lives and I don't play games out of a sense of duty to others who want to have fun. I play them for my enjoyment. Getting frustrated at people who leave early is one thing but to act like they have a duty to finish out a video game or they shouldn't be allowed to ever play is deluded.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;47131658]1. That's a stupid strawman. No one here cares that the game is going to be fucked for the kid. The parent has the authority to make the kid do other things instead of playing a [I]videogame[/I]. We're talking about fucking something up for other people, not for the kid. You're acting like my parents did over 10 years ago who had no idea about video games and did not understand I wasn't playing alone. 2. He said that other people are irrelevant when he wants his kid to do something. He doesn't care if his command for the kid is going to fuck something up for strangers. His command has to be done right now, nothing else matters.[/QUOTE] why do you have this crazy obsession with the word strawman, what the fuck seriously how on earth is what i said a strawman? i was explaining that he wasn't saying that the parents should have unquestionable authority, just that their authority matters

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;47133530]There's nothing wrong with informing parents how league works so that they can more effectively schedule when a kid is allowed to play without being interrupted and interrupting a team because of dinner, bed, chores, etc. but acting like a person playing a game has a responsibility of any kind to his team or is a dick for leaving a [I]game[/I] because it's gonna "ruin everyone else's fun" is hilariously sad tbh. If your happiness is so intimately tied to having a well-matched game and you are not a professional player you need to calibrate your life priorities in all honesty. I am not indebted to teammates when I am playing a game. I am playing for my own enjoyment. If something else suddenly takes priority for me, deal with it.[/QUOTE] There's nothing wrong with informing parents about how the games work, I agree with that. There IS something wrong with someone expecting parents to give a shit about their games. Why should parents care? The sad reality a lot of gamers don't accept is that to everyone except other gamers, games are just a frivolous waste of time. Just something people do for mild amusement, nothing of any consequence. I wouldn't join in a game knowing I can't finish, cause I'm not a dick like that. If you are, good for you. But I do not, and would not, expect anyone to buy a "I can't right now, I'm playing a game" excuse for not doing anything in real life. You try to sell that to a parent you're saying "This game is more important than what you say" and that's not going to fly.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;47134435]There's nothing wrong with informing parents about how the games work, I agree with that. There IS something wrong with someone expecting parents to give a shit about their games. Why should parents care? The sad reality a lot of gamers don't accept is that to everyone except other gamers, games are just a frivolous waste of time. Just something people do for mild amusement, nothing of any consequence. I wouldn't join in a game knowing I can't finish, cause I'm not a dick like that. If you are, good for you. But I do not, and would not, expect anyone to buy a "I can't right now, I'm playing a game" excuse for not doing anything in real life. You try to sell that to a parent you're saying "This game is more important than what you say" and that's not going to fly.[/QUOTE] It's not the game itself that's being held to a level of importance here, otherwise the same would apply to single-player. It's about an implied commitment to a group of other people. And as people have already stated, it even specifically says "Don't allow him to start a new game" in regards to situations where they know they haven't the full time for a game.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;47134077]And that should be plenty. Can't finish the match? Accept a penalty. No one has a responsibility to their video game pick up team. To think that they do is ridiculous. It is a video game. People have real lives and I don't play games out of a sense of duty to others who want to have fun. I play them for my enjoyment. Getting frustrated at people who leave early is one thing but to act like they have a duty to finish out a video game or they shouldn't be allowed to ever play is deluded.[/QUOTE] You're right.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;47134077]And that should be plenty. Can't finish the match? Accept a penalty. No one has a responsibility to their video game pick up team. To think that they do is ridiculous. It is a video game. People have real lives and I don't play games out of a sense of duty to others who want to have fun. I play them for my enjoyment. Getting frustrated at people who leave early is one thing but to act like they have a duty to finish out a video game or they shouldn't be allowed to ever play is deluded.[/QUOTE] But then you could just play single player. It's a team-oriented game, all the team(s) should have fun.