Open letter to parents of League of Legends players released - Polidicks

I hate that the view of video games is still "it's just a video game, calm down lmao". I hang out with friends often, exercise daily, and work on coursework persistently. I have a very small amount of time in between this to play video games and the video game I like right now is LoL. I get my one game (admitting, this is the fault of the specific game being more time-intensive than others) in for the day only for one dude to disconnect the game after trying to surrender and our team declining. It was an almost even score, we could've easily made a comeback and either way, I would've been okay with the outcome because it was fair. I'm not saying this open letter is the right thing to do considering realistically, I doubt it'll do anything, but I hope something changes peoples attitudes towards d/c in the middle of a game with no regard for other people. [editline]13th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Wii60;47131702]why dont the lol devs just implement this from dota 2 [img]http://i.imgur.com/8eMXJPv.png[/img] player abandons for <reasons> and gets a mark on their account for it (enough marks = dota hell for a few games) , this means the game is safe to leave for everyone else and doesnt effect ranking.[/QUOTE] I am almost positive what would happen is people would bully the worst person on their team (blame game) into leaving since it's "their fault" that their team is losing. I've seen people bully others into leaving without this system even in place, so I feel this would only encourage it.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;47134350]why do you have this crazy obsession with the word strawman, what the fuck seriously how on earth is what i said a strawman? i was explaining that he wasn't saying that the parents should have unquestionable authority, just that their authority matters[/QUOTE] I don't have an obsession with the word strawman. You people have an obsession with making arguments that either imply that the person you're talking said something that they haven't or you talk about things that didn't happen. The strawman you've made is the "it's just a videogame". I have already explained it in the post you have just quoted. It's not about a [I]videogame[/I] that the kid was playing or about ruining it for that kid. We're talking about something that affects other people.

[QUOTE=NixNax123;47124232]you put [I]other people that you don't know[/I] before your family[/QUOTE] "its okay, you can be an asshole to people as long as you dont know them ;-)"

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;47133434]When a kid breaks a window, the owner of the window goes to the parent of the kid. We are used to dealing with parents when we don't like what the kid is doing. I don't think that applies to online gaming though. If I'm a parent, and you physically come to see me to explain what my kid did, I'm going to deal with it because you are a real person with a real issue that you are telling me about. This letter is the wrong approach because A)it doesn't directly reach the parent B)the game isn't 'real' and C)the damages aren't real. So your stats are affected, so what? It's a virtual activity with virtual stats, how do expect anyone except other game players to take that seriously?[/QUOTE] Stop with the stats, that was only mentioned to press it that it affects other actual people. And the damage is that you fuck up someone's fun and inconvenience other people. I don't know if you consider it fun or inconvenience "real". That's the damage. Nobody says that the parent should care about some stats or the videogame itself. [QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;47133434]The only real approach is to address the players and teams. Hold the players accountable for securing blocks of time to play, and hold the teams accountable for the players they pick to be on their teams. If some kid tells his parent "I'm about to start a game, it'll take an hour, if I can't play for the next hour let me know now" most parents would respect that. It's because by letting the parent know what your plans are they can decide yes or no. This way they won't interrupt later, since they already gave the okay to play. Or at least the player wouldn't have started the game since the parent said no. This only works if the PLAYER takes responsibility though, not the parent. You'll notice in this scenario the parent is not asked to consider things like other people's stats, because those things are irrelevant. Either the kid can play for an hour or not, that's all that need be established.[/QUOTE] But that's the entire point of the letter to inform that the kid is not playing alone and if he leaves it's going to affect other actual people and they ask the parents to treat it as if it was a basketball game where you can't be replaced. It's not that unreasonable. It's basically "if it can wait, please let him finish, otherwise you mess up something for 9 other people". And yeah I agree that it's not going to reach the people they want to reach.

I'm sorry but it is always going to be easier to abandon people you don't know, people you've never met or people who have very few means of actually confronting you after the fact. As much as I don't think "video games are stupid" or "it is just a video game", it is never going to be on equal footing with a face to face social interaction. That is why the comparisons with team sports, practice etc... don't really hold up. True it is still going to be being an asshole, but trying to assert that it is on the same level is just ridiculous. And the fact still stands, if you have real life obligations I still wouldn't consider leaving a game of football better or worse than leaving a LoL match. The only problem is then you have to immediately deal with the fallout in the form of other angry players. Short of giving out the addresses of leavers to the remaining team, there is no way they will be on the same level. Finally comparison to "well parents would never take their kids out of practice" don't hold up, unless the parents also consider LoL to be practice (for what?). I've had plenty of times when I was a kid where I was forced off the pitch and back home by my parents in the middle of game because dinner was on. If your parents value LoL as much as they value you playing football, basketball or whatever then you wouldn't be in this situation anyway because they probably would arrange the daily schedule to accommodate it. If your parents only consider it to be recreation (which unless you are training to be a pro, it pretty much is) then they might force you to accommodate them.

[QUOTE=Fetret;47135579]I'm sorry but it is always going to be easier to abandon people you don't know, people you've never met or people who have very few means of actually confronting you after the fact. As much as I don't think "video games are stupid" or "it is just a video game", it is never going to be on equal footing with a face to face social interaction. That is why the comparisons with team sports, practice etc... don't really hold up. True it is still going to be being an asshole, but trying to assert that it is on the same level is just ridiculous. And the fact still stands, if you have real life obligations I still wouldn't consider leaving a game of football better or worse than leaving a LoL match. The only problem is then you have to immediately deal with the fallout in the form of other angry players. Short of giving out the addresses of leavers to the remaining team, there is no way they will be on the same level. Finally comparison to "well parents would never take their kids out of practice" don't hold up, unless the parents also consider LoL to be practice (for what?). I've had plenty of times when I was a kid where I was forced off the pitch and back home by my parents in the middle of game because dinner was on. If your parents value LoL as much as they value you playing football, basketball or whatever then you wouldn't be in this situation anyway because they probably would arrange the daily schedule to accommodate it. If your parents only consider it to be recreation (which unless you are training to be a pro, it pretty much is) then they might force you to accommodate them.[/QUOTE] I think you're missing a bit of the point if, in the 2nd paragraph, you're going to talk about how the consequences immediately affect the player. [editline]13th February 2015[/editline] I agree with the rest though, I think.

[QUOTE=Mbbird;47135603]I think you're missing a bit of the point if, in the 2nd paragraph, you're going to talk about how the consequences immediately affect the player. [editline]13th February 2015[/editline] I agree with the rest though, I think.[/QUOTE] I mean if I have a proper real life obligation I would leave a football game just as much as I would leave a LoL match, but if I leave the game then I would immediately face the consequences as angry, real-life players. Since this doesn't happen in LoL (and even punishments as being dumped in with other leavers etc.. are not on the same level) there is obviously going to be more people leaving.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;47135190]I don't have an obsession with the word strawman. You people have an obsession with making arguments that either imply that the person you're talking said something that they haven't or you talk about things that didn't happen. The strawman you've made is the "it's just a videogame". I have already explained it in the post you have just quoted. It's not about a [I]videogame[/I] that the kid was playing or about ruining it for that kid. We're talking about something that affects other people.[/QUOTE] look man i don't give a shit about whatever discussion you're having or about your strawmen (seriously what does the wizard of oz even have to do with videogames?), all i'm saying is this guy: [QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;47128621]Once again, you're missing the point. If I'm the parent and I'm telling my kid to do something right now, it is by default important because [b]I'm[/b] the one telling him. The people online, whether it's in a game or videochat or livestream, they are all irrelevant. They certainly do not take priority over what I tell my kid to do. If you need someone to commit to X amount of time to do whatever it is you require, it's up to you to find such a person. It's unrealistic and unreasonable to expect other people to enforce rules that keep your players in line for you. That's all I'm saying.[/QUOTE] is not saying this [QUOTE=Bernie Buddy;47129731] "do what I say, no questions"[/QUOTE] you dig?

[QUOTE=Fetret;47135653]I mean if I have a proper real life obligation I would leave a football game just as much as I would leave a LoL match, but if I leave the game then I would immediately face the consequences as angry, real-life players. Since this doesn't happen in LoL (and even punishments as being dumped in with other leavers etc.. are not on the same level) there is obviously going to be more people leaving.[/QUOTE] but it's not about you suffering consequences it's about them suffering consequences.

[QUOTE=Mbbird;47135709]but it's not about you being punished it's about them.[/QUOTE] Yeah but as I said, if I have a real life obligation (and that is defined by me, what obligation would make me abandon a game compared to someone else might be completely different, it might depend on the people I'm playing with, it might depend on my mood that day, it might even depend on the time of day) I would leave it. Since I'm a decent enough person I wouldn't do such a thing unless it was a very important thing. And I completely understand the other side too, because I would be pissed like hell if someone left the game and ruined my fun but can you see how it is all personal? [B]I[/B] leave because [B]I[/B] have something serious to take care of. [B]I[/B] get pissed because [B]my[/B] fun is being limited by someone else leaving. So even then there is an expectation that other people should accommodate your fun at the expense of their own obligations (if there are no obligations and they leave, there is still not much you can do and it is called being a dick). Honestly in the end this is not a problem limited to LoL, WoW or any game. Games just make it worse because of the lack of social interaction. And if for some other reason there is more of this happening in LoL than any other game then there might be something wrong with LoL or its playerbase (I don't even know if this is true, it is just a hypothesis).

I can't believe that this is actually a real thing this is completely beyond me

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;47129704]nah that's exactly what he's saying he's saying children should respect their parents' authority. this doesn't exclude a relationship with mutual respect, by the way [editline]13th February 2015[/editline] yeah but fetusfondler is acting like that statement is insane when it sounds pretty reasonable i haven't checked the rest of the discussion but there's nothing terrible about that post specifically[/QUOTE] He's made it very clear what the kid wants to do should not be respected [editline]15th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;47134435]There's nothing wrong with informing parents about how the games work, I agree with that. There IS something wrong with someone expecting parents to give a shit about their games. Why should parents care? The sad reality a lot of gamers don't accept is that to everyone except other gamers, games are just a frivolous waste of time. Just something people do for mild amusement, nothing of any consequence. I wouldn't join in a game knowing I can't finish, cause I'm not a dick like that. If you are, good for you. But I do not, and would not, expect anyone to buy a "I can't right now, I'm playing a game" excuse for not doing anything in real life. You try to sell that to a parent you're saying "This game is more important than what you say" and that's not going to fly.[/QUOTE] "Why should a parent care that their child likes something? Fuck that"

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47146122]"Why should a parent care that their child likes something? Fuck that"[/QUOTE] You mean to tell me that you expect other people to care about your personal interests? If I'm into collecting stamps, I should expect people to sit there and listen intently as I drone on and on about stamps? That's crazy. My interests are only of interest to ME, that's how you should look at it. So if someday some kid is engaged in his interests and his dad says "Put that down and go..." then he needs to put it down and go do what his dad said. This applies to online games as well as any other elective activity, such as watching a movie, reading a comic book or other timewaster.

And what's the lesson learned from "oh I have to drop everything and do what you're telling me to do regardless of reasoning"? It's not respect for your parents. It's that your activities aren't important. You're also entirely contradicting yourself and imposing one whim asinportang ant another as not as arbitrary as is possible.

I'm amazed that people take video games this seriously. If you're a kid under your parents house, on their electricity and Internet then you don't and shouldnt have a say when it comes time to get kicked off the computer. Hell,I pay my own bills and stop playing games when my I have to do shit or my wife tells me too because that's how real life works.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;47147538]I'm amazed that people take video games this seriously. If you're a kid under your parents house, on their electricity and Internet then you don't and shouldnt have a say when it comes time to get kicked off the computer. Hell,I pay my own bills and stop playing games when my I have to do shit or my wife tells me too because that's how real life works.[/QUOTE] It's like you haven't even read the thread and seen the posts that explain why someone would write this letter.

[QUOTE=Eluveitie;47147629]It's like you haven't even read the thread and seen the posts that explain why someone would write this letter.[/QUOTE] Yes I did read the OP and it's ridiculous. "Let your kid finish the game yadayada" shit like that. Why should the parents care at all? It's a video game, if my kid was playing League and I had some shit for him to do or check my email (which 9 times out of 10 would be significantly more important than a round of League) in the middle of a game then I ould give two shits less about impacting someone's asinine ranking on a video game. Why should parents have to tailor their schedules and set their expectations around an online video game? Those 9 other people aren't my responsibility. The expectations in the OP are silly as shit.

Honestly, I read this whole thing as more of a suggestion than a desperate plea for help, or anything. It's courtesy, that's it. I don't even play MOBAs. I mean there's only so many hours in a day, and to be basically told that you just wasted your time for one of those hours is annoying, yeah? If the kid has something important that he needs to do right now, sure, yeah, kick him off, it's annoying, but understandable. But if you can avoid it, you're making a conscious decision to not be an asshole to like 9 other people. Does it really matter if you don't know them? Is being a dick to someone suddenly okay because you don't personally know them? It's not critical, just "please avoid this if you can it's really annoying"

if your child is playing mobas then the parents have failed any way

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;47147865]Yes I did read the OP and it's ridiculous. "Let your kid finish the game yadayada" shit like that. Why should the parents care at all? It's a video game, if my kid was playing League and I had some shit for him to do or check my email (which 9 times out of 10 would be significantly more important than a round of League) in the middle of a game then I ould give two shits less about impacting someone's asinine ranking on a video game. Why should parents have to tailor their schedules and set their expectations around an online video game? Those 9 other people aren't my responsibility. The expectations in the OP are silly as shit.[/QUOTE] That's not what it says though. A cursory read would tell you that.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47148501]That's not what it says though. A cursory read would tell you that.[/QUOTE] It literally says "Feel like checking your e-mail? Wait until the game is over".

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;47148564]It literally says "Feel like checking your e-mail? Wait until the game is over".[/QUOTE] well there's literally nothing wrong with that bit this is the 21st century, you can check your e-mail on your phone, laptop or whathaveyou in an instant

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;47148728]well there's literally nothing wrong with that bit this is the 21st century, you can check your e-mail on your phone, laptop or whathaveyou in an instant[/QUOTE] If I own something I have the right to use it whenever I want. That's the right of having ownership. Would I go out of my way to be a dick and kick my kid off the computer? No, but if I desire for whatever reason to do it I have no obligation to back down because some 9 other random ass nerds might lose some virtual reputation.

people who can't manage their time shouldn't play ranked competitive games, which includes kids with chores and bedtimes there shouldn't be any guarantees that you get to play an uninterrupted hour of a game when you're on somebody else's computer, under somebody else's roof

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;47148772]If I own something I have the right to use it whenever I want. That's the right of having ownership. Would I go out of my way to be a dick and kick my kid off the computer? No, but if I desire for whatever reason to do it I have no obligation to back down because some 9 other random ass nerds might lose some virtual reputation.[/QUOTE] I mean if you need the computer for something important sure, but if you just decide you need the computer when you don't actually NEED it mid game you're basically just being a dick to a bunch of strangers for no reason other than because you can.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;47148772]If I own something I have the right to use it whenever I want. That's the right of having ownership. Would I go out of my way to be a dick and kick my kid off the computer? No, but if I desire for whatever reason to do it I have no obligation to back down because some 9 other random ass nerds might lose some virtual reputation.[/QUOTE] Having the right to do something doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do at that time, nor does it mean you're above reprisal.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47146122]He's made it very clear what the kid wants to do should not be respected [editline]15th February 2015[/editline] "Why should a parent care that their child likes something? Fuck that"[/QUOTE] but he's not saying a parent shouldn't care about games, he's saying that you shouldn't expect them to, games aren't as big of a deal as a lot of gamers would like to think

i can just hear my parents saying "who cares" after reading this because something something real life something something they mean less to me, emotional guilt trip etc. unfortunately you're appealing to a generation of people that didn't play these games and didn't have as much of a connection to them as the modern generation does and in my circumstances nonetheless a group of people damn near almost entirely in disconnect with the modern use of technology and online gaming, let alone the use of facebook. if you're specially lucky you'll have people who are anti-friendship, which is always a fun thing to be around

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;47148772]If I own something I have the right to use it whenever I want. That's the right of having ownership. Would I go out of my way to be a dick and kick my kid off the computer? No, but if I desire for whatever reason to do it I have no obligation to back down because some 9 other random ass nerds might lose some virtual reputation.[/QUOTE] You seriously just went through the "nerds" route? Really? You're in a fucking gaming forum, one would expect you to have more brains than this but your sad spectacle has revealed that those sorts of expectations are too fucking high.

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47149739]You seriously just went through the "nerds" route? Really? You're in a fucking gaming forum, one would expect you to have more brains than this but your sad spectacle has revealed that those sorts of expectations are too fucking high.[/QUOTE] my favorite is when it happens in niche gaming subreddits