Squatters leave house once occupied by soverign citizen; Owner of house afraid of repair costs
315 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;42341591][url]http://www.cato-unbound.org/2010/06/18/sheldon-richman/context-keeping-community-organizing[/url]
Social and political change is brought about by people, then a few politicians take the credit.[/QUOTE]
And people change society and politics because the popular opinion shifts.
Why would the popular opinion shift in the direction of anarchism?
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;42341591][URL]http://www.cato-unbound.org/2010/06/18/sheldon-richman/context-keeping-community-organizing[/URL]
Social and political change is brought about by people, then a few politicians take the credit.[/QUOTE]
im not saying politicians cant be assholes
the US form of democratic republic is heavily flawed, but it is far superior to anarchy or full socialism/communism
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42341545]Manipulation will always exist, government tools can make it both easier to do and harder to do however.[/QUOTE]
The net effect is to make it easier, however. The state attracts sociopaths and other manipulative personalities.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42341545]I don't really see what your point is either because the only way to prevent that is to completely remove greed from the human psyche.[/QUOTE]
Putting words in my mouth. I don't believe in a world without bad people, just one where there are less tools for them.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;42341608]The net effect is to make it easier, however. The state attracts sociopaths and other manipulative personalities.
Putting words in my mouth. I don't believe in a world without bad people, just one where there are less tools for them.[/QUOTE]
how does anarchy provide fewer tools?
these bad people would simply take advantage of others without a military or regulation standing in their way
it would be even easier for the bad guy to beat up and steal from the baker, create a gang and take over the city, and establish a dictatorship, when there is no organized government to stop him
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
if there are no tools, bad people will make them, and i would rather have a flawed system, than a system full created and controlled by the "bad guys"
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;42341608]The net effect is to make it easier, however. The state attracts sociopaths and other manipulative personalities.
Putting words in my mouth. I don't believe in a world without bad people, just one where there are less tools for them.[/QUOTE]
Do you have any sort of source on "the state attracting sociopaths and other manipulative personalities?" and that government makes manipulation easier?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42341639]Do you have any sort of source on "the state attracting sociopaths and other manipulative personalities?" and that government makes manipulation easier?[/QUOTE]
you don't need sources for common knowledge generally.
government is manipulative by definition. that's what a government does; it manipulates people. whether you think government manipulation is a good or bad thing is another entirely.
and creating a powerful tool of manipulation will lead to manipulative people wanting to use that tool. just like how if you create a powerful tool for building, builders will want to utilize it.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42341676]you don't need sources for common knowledge generally.
government is manipulative by definition. that's what a government does; it manipulates people. whether you think government manipulation is a good or bad thing is another entirely.
and creating a powerful tool of manipulation will lead to manipulative people wanting to use that tool. just like how if you create a powerful tool for building, builders will want to utilize it.[/QUOTE]
claiming something is common knowledge does not make it common knowledge, or fact at all for that matter
i could claim that "capitalism is a superior economic system" is common knowledge considering more than 95% of the first world countries on the globe have it as their economic system
youre good at repeating (and repeating and repeating) the same pseudo-intellectual dribble you read from ayn rand and kropotkin but not much else
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42341356]that's my point. people don't become doctors for money(otherwise they would become investment bankers), they want to be doctors. people are driven to do certain things and without that drive we would never have scientists, doctors, engineers, chefs, iron workers, or anything else.
and i never said law doesn't prevent crime, i said that if you think the only thing stopping people from burglary is property law then it's a delusion. the legality of an act isn't the primary deciding factor in whether you actually take action or not
they are paid horribly compared to the upper class.[/QUOTE]
They're still paid better than uneducated labour or nonprofessional labour. It's certainly one of the incentives why someone would want to be a professional baker or doctor. Not the sole incentive of coure, but certainly one.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42341676]
and creating a powerful tool of manipulation will lead to manipulative people wanting to use that tool. just like how if you create a powerful tool for building, builders will want to utilize it.[/QUOTE]
Its a shame that the anarchy thread died.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42338934]no they aren't. people who own property and don't utilize that property are terrible.[/QUOTE]
Can you point out where it says her property wasn't in use? Because I'm not seeing it in the article.
[QUOTE=Sungrazer;42341837]Can you point out where it says her property wasn't in use? Because I'm not seeing it in the article.[/QUOTE]
that was in response to somebody who said squatters are terrible.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42341862]that was in response to somebody who said squatters are terrible.[/QUOTE]
I still don't understand your point. Once you buy anything, it's yours, whether or not you use it. That's how ownership works. And if you have enough money to own more than one piece of property and don't feel like using it, that's irrelevant. It still belongs to you. How does it give someone the right to come and claim it for themselves?
[QUOTE=Sungrazer;42341914]I still don't understand your point. Once you buy anything, it's yours, whether or not you use it. That's how ownership works. And if you have enough money to own more than one piece of property and don't feel like using it, that's irrelevant. It still belongs to you. How does it give someone the right to come and claim it for themselves?[/QUOTE]
thats just it though, he doesnt believe in ownership
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
though im sure he wouldnt like me squatting in his house and eating his food
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42341916]thats just it though, he doesnt believe in ownership
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
though im sure he wouldnt like me squatting in his house and eating his food[/QUOTE]
i believe in personal property not private property.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42341932]i believe in personal property not private property.[/QUOTE]
lol not all property can be moved.
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
hell that term doesn't even apply to buildings or land
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
are you suggesting we all live in RV's?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42342033]lol not all property can be moved.
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
hell that term doesn't even apply to buildings or land
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
are you suggesting we all live in RV's?[/QUOTE]
That would actually be quite useful when you start to hate your neighbors :v:
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42342054]That would actually be quite useful when you start to hate your neighbors :v:[/QUOTE]
Doublewide RV's are small houses with bathtub, king sized bed, and full kitchen included.
Sadly they cost upwards of half a mill
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42342033]lol not all property can be moved.
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
hell that term doesn't even apply to buildings or land
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
are you suggesting we all live in RV's?[/QUOTE]
personal property isn't all about mobility
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42342109]personal property isn't all about mobility[/QUOTE]
thats literally the definition of personal property
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342113]thats literally the definition of personal property[/QUOTE]
no it's not lol
In political/economic theory, notably socialist, Marxist and anarchist philosophies, the distinction between private and personal property is extremely important. Which items of property constitute which is open to debate.
Personal property includes "items intended for personal use."[3] (e.g., clothes, homes, & vehicles.[3] Some include money.[4]) It must be gained in a socially fair manner, & the owner has a distributive right to exclude others.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42342121]no it's not lol
In political/economic theory, notably socialist, Marxist and anarchist philosophies, the distinction between private and personal property is extremely important. Which items of property constitute which is open to debate.
Personal property includes "items intended for personal use."[3] (e.g., clothes, homes, & vehicles.[3] Some include money.[4]) It must be gained in a socially fair manner, & the owner has a distributive right to exclude others.[/QUOTE]
you could argue that all private property is personal property then
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342126]you could argue that all private property is personal property then[/QUOTE]
well yea if you were unable to read or form complete thoughts in your head i guess you could ramble about it or something.
[editline]29th September 2013[/editline]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_property#Personal_versus_private_property[/url] just read that
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42342132]well yea if you were unable to read or form complete thoughts in your head i guess you could ramble about it or something.
[editline]29th September 2013[/editline]
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_property#Personal_versus_private_property[/URL] just read that[/QUOTE]
wait what the fuck is a socially fair manner? Sounds an awful lot like an arbitrary term that can be used for anything.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42342132]well yea if you were unable to read or form complete thoughts in your head i guess you could ramble about it or something.
[editline]29th September 2013[/editline]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_property#Personal_versus_private_property[/url] just read that[/QUOTE]
philosophies are debated
youre just arguing what marxism [i]says[/i] personal/private property is
doesnt make it true or right
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42342142]wait what the fuck is a socially fair manner? Sounds an awful lot like an arbitrary term that can be used for anything.[/QUOTE]
he doesnt need to be specific
mankind will just do whats good for the society based loosely on concepts of good will
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42342142]lol where did you get that information from? I bet you its pretty old[/QUOTE]
What does the age of information like that matter?
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342155]philosophies are debated
youre just arguing what marxism [i]says[/i] personal/private property is
doesnt make it true or right[/QUOTE]
so? kyle was saying something idiotic about rv's or some shit i was just correcting him and saying that our definition is a bit more nuanced.
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;42339541]If he was not using that car for a period of several months or years your dumb joke would be one epic zinger, but you've completely missed his point[/QUOTE]
If I own a car and I leave it in my driveway for 5 months because I have other means of transportation does not give someone who does not own a car the right to take my car and use it for themselves on the ground that no one else was using it.
If you own a house and its vacant for a while for whatever reason, people have no right to just invade it and claim it as their own. So what if its not in use, the squatter would not be able to live there even if you were to sell it or rent it. Yea it sucks when you have no place to go if you lost your house, but you have no right to just invade homes that are vacant and make them your own.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42342168]so? kyle was saying something idiotic about rv's or some shit i was just correcting him and saying that our definition is a bit more nuanced.[/QUOTE]
"a bit more nuanced"
the fuck does that even mean?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42342175]"a bit more nuanced"
the fuck does that even mean?[/QUOTE]
lol put simply rv's are not the only form of personal property you can live in.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42342175]"a bit more nuanced"
the fuck does that even mean?[/QUOTE]
[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nuance?s=t]noun, plural nu·anc·es [noo-ahn-siz, nyoo-, noo-ahn-siz, nyoo-; French ny-ahns] Show IPA .
1.
a subtle difference or distinction in expression, meaning, response, etc.
2.
a very slight difference or variation in color or tone.[/url]
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