• Squatters leave house once occupied by soverign citizen; Owner of house afraid of repair costs
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[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];42342590']Maybe it's ok for us in our developed nations, but next time you're in the receiving end of a raid on a Nigerian village by state military paid by Dutch Shell, then let me know how that capitalism is working out for you.[/QUOTE] if you believe that capitalism is the only reason bad things happen you need to clear your bias and realize that the root of your "evil" is economics, and economics exists in every system you will ever have scarcity will always exist
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342582]capitalism forces people to behave (moreso than any alternative) and works far more realistically than anarchy would in the same scale; and thinking you can divide a nation into thousands of small communes is incredibly idealistic, barbaric, and frankly, idiotic[/QUOTE] Capitalism doesn't force anyone to behave. It forces the top to control the bottom, which is how the capitalist system currently works. So many ideas that our society holds are in place in order to keep capitalistic ideas in power.
[QUOTE=Valnar;42342612]Capitalism doesn't force anyone to behave. It forces the top to control the bottom, which is how the capitalist system currently works. So many ideas that our society holds are in place in order to keep capitalistic ideas in power.[/QUOTE] there are no functional alternatives
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342618]there are no functional alternatives[/QUOTE] It really mostly seems that way because of what I said in the post you quoted. Our society is built in a way to insure that it stays capitalist. Ideas like private property, working for a wage, and the possbility to go up the social ladder insures that capitalism is reinforced.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342618]there are no functional alternatives[/QUOTE] thanks to capitalism functional alternatives are very unlikely.
[QUOTE=Valnar;42342628]It really mostly seems that way because of what I said in the post you quoted. Our society is built in a way to insure that it stays capitalist.[/QUOTE] capitalism has flaws, but so does every other economic system the thing is, capitalism works far better than the alternatives have, and you can look at any functional nation to see that [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;42342634]thanks to capitalism functional alternatives are very unlikely.[/QUOTE] a high population and greedy people and scientific innovation and scarcity of natural resources are more of a reason why those alternatives are not functional
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342641]a high population and greedy people and scientific innovation and scarcity of natural resources are more of a reason why those alternatives are not functional[/QUOTE] so you are actually saying that you ignored the last several pages. gj
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42342648]so you are actually saying that you ignored the last several pages. gj[/QUOTE] capitalism is built to make the rich get richer but that is not necessarily a bad thing and it is hardly the root of all worldly crimes [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] saying capitalism is the main problem is like saying the headache caused by the brain tumor is the problem the brain tumor being the way economics works
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342655]capitalism is built to make the rich get richer but that is not necessarily a bad thing and it is hardly the root of all worldly crimes[/QUOTE] It is a bad thing.
[QUOTE=Valnar;42342666]It is a bad thing.[/QUOTE] not a bad thing at all
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342655]capitalism is built to make the rich get richer but that is not necessarily a bad thing and it is hardly the root of all worldly crimes [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] saying capitalism is the main problem is like saying the headache caused by the brain tumor is the problem the brain tumor being the way economics works[/QUOTE] *the way economics works in a capitalist system.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42342670]*the way economics works in a capitalist system.[/QUOTE] *the way mankind has historically dealt with the problem of scarcity
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342669]not a bad thing at all[/QUOTE] The rich getting richer means that the main focus around society is making the rich be richer. This isn't good for anyone not rich.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342673]*the way mankind has historically dealt with the problem of scarcity[/QUOTE] we also dealt with the problem of labor with slavery historically. doesn't mean it is necessary or right today.
[QUOTE=Valnar;42342682]The rich getting richer means that the main focus around society is making the rich be richer. This isn't good for anyone not rich.[/QUOTE] the desire to get rich is a darn good incentive to get things done [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;42342686]we also dealt with the problem of labor with slavery historically. doesn't mean it is necessary or right today.[/QUOTE] and we are nowhere near the societal status to handle anarchy maybe when we are all one single hivemind machine maybe
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342687]the desire to get rich is a darn good incentive to get things done[/QUOTE] Lol, the desire to get rich is one of the ideas that hurts those not rich. The idea of getting rich or the "American Dream" is one of the ideas that keeps the rich in power, because its pretty much a lie.
[QUOTE=Valnar;42342723]Lol, the desire to get rich is one of the ideas that hurts those not rich. The idea of getting rich or the "American Dream" is one of the ideas that keeps the rich in power, because its pretty much a lie.[/QUOTE] its not the "american dream" you seem to forget capitalism exists in almost every first world country, from the US to Canada to france to sweden it powers innovation and competition and good products [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] the fact that any of us can go buy food without worrying, and a pair of shoes and a shirt and pants for less than 50 dollars is a good thing dont you know
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342728]its not the "american dream" you seem to forget capitalism exists in almost every first world country, from the US to Canada to france to sweden it powers innovation and competition and good products[/QUOTE] The american dream is just one name for it. The vast majority of people who want to get rich will never get rich. its an impossible dream that everyone has.
[QUOTE=Valnar;42342738]The american dream is just one name for it. The vast majority of people who want to get rich will never get rich. its an impossible dream that everyone has.[/QUOTE] the desire to get things is what keeps people working, innovating, moving sure personal desire plays a big role, but a good lot of people work so they can get a nice car or big tv, or large house and most people get those things if they play their cards right [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] and even if they dont, so what, they have the necessities, and can afford some of what they want thats more than you'd have in any fully communist/anarchist system
[QUOTE=Valnar;42342738] The vast majority of people who want to get rich will never get rich. its an impossible dream that everyone has.[/QUOTE] Well of course not everybody will be a billionaire.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42342758]Well of course not everybody will be a billionaire.[/QUOTE] Its almost impossible to move out of the social class you are in, part of our society is built to work that way.
[QUOTE=Valnar;42342768]Its almost impossible to move out of the social class you are in, part of our society is built to work that way.[/QUOTE] lmao sure it is my girlfriend was born in the rio grande valley living off financial aid and now she is studying to become a dentist (at baylor) you just got to not be a lazy sack of shit and know your plans and research and actually do stuff [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] fucking full ride too
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342789]lmao sure it is my girlfriend was born in the rio grande valley living off financial aid and now she is studying to become a dentist you just got to not be a lazy sack of shit and know your plans and research and actually do stuff[/QUOTE] Hard work isn't what gets people out of poverty or what makes them rich. Opportunities are the only thing that can make you move up in social class, and those tend to be rare.
[QUOTE=Valnar;42342800]Hard work isn't what gets people out of poverty or what makes them rich. Opportunities is the only thing that can make you move up in social class, and those tend to be rare.[/QUOTE] opportunities change with your life and attitude towards it sure if you think "nothing i do will make me successful :(" youll always be an anarchist arguing on an internet forum why money is bad literally doesnt take anything at all to get it good in the US, just try and you'll get a decent career that pays the bills and leaves money for luxuries [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] will you be a millionaire? probably not unless you get lucky and have connections or have good ideas but you wont be in the gutters unless you made some bad choices (like going into political science or getting an art degree)
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342814]opportunities change with your life and attitude towards it sure if you think "nothing i do will make me successful :(" youll always be an anarchist arguing on an internet forum why money is bad literally doesnt take anything at all to get it good in the US, just try and you'll get a decent career that pays the bills and leaves money for luxuries [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] will you be a millionaire? probably not unless you get lucky but you wont be in the gutters unless you made some bad choices (like going into political science or getting an art degree)[/QUOTE] I guess you just solved all of poverty issues in the united states, right there in that statement didn't you? People in poverty are just lazy eh?
[QUOTE=Valnar;42342845]I guess you just solved all of poverty issues in the united states, right there in that statement didn't you? People in poverty are just lazy eh?[/QUOTE] definitely not, the economic climate right now is poor, so it absolutely stupid to critique the entire concept of the US capitalistic system based just on this time period (and even in this climate i managed to land my first teaching job) high unemployment does not discredit the entirety of capitalism
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342855]definitely not, the economic climate right now is poor, so it absolutely stupid to critique the entire concept of the US capitalistic system based just on this time period (and even in this climate i managed to land my first teaching job) unemployment does not discredit the entirety of capitalism[/QUOTE] But you said [QUOTE=Loriborn;42342814][B]literally doesnt take anything at all to get it good[/B] in the US, [B]just try[/B] and you'll get a decent career that pays the bills and leaves money for luxuries.[/QUOTE] How is that not saying that people in poverty are lazy?
[QUOTE=Valnar;42342866]But you said How is that not saying that people in poverty are lazy?[/QUOTE] Because not everyone has a good education. and can't really try because they won't be accepted.
[QUOTE=Valnar;42342866]But you said How is that not saying that people in poverty are lazy?[/QUOTE] in an economic climate that was stable (as per the nineties for instance) people unemployed now are unemployed for a number of reasons beyond control, but in an economic climate that is relatively secure, (such as in the state of texas today) it is easy to get it good in the US of course right now its bad, but its bad for (mostly) everyone [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Pigbear;42342896]Because not everyone has a good education. and can't really try because they won't be accepted.[/QUOTE] that is bullshit, there are a number of free grants, welfare options, and schools that offer services to nearly anyone [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] honestly poverty is not due to laziness, its often ignorance to the options that are out there not that its the fault of those who are in poverty mind you, (some never find out about these options because they simply have no way to, and that's not their fault) but it is far beyond the fact that there are simply no options to be found
[QUOTE=Loriborn;42342899]in an economic climate that was stable (as per the nineties for instance) people unemployed now are unemployed for a number of reasons beyond control, but in an economic climate that is relatively secure, (such as in the state of texas today) it is easy to get it good in the US of course right now its bad, but its bad for (mostly) everyone [editline]29th September 2013[/editline][/QUOTE] Ninties eh? Like how the poverty rates for the nintes were pretty close to what we have now? [URL]http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/09/13/us/income-poverty-rate-at-1990s-levels.html?_r=0[/URL] The best it got was about 11% of the population living under the poverty line in the early 2000s, are you saying that all of those people were not trying to get out of poverty? [Quote]that is bullshit, there are a number of free grants, welfare options, and schools that offer services to nearly anyone[/Quote] Not everyone is able to get those grants, and not everybody is able to take the time out of working in order to get an education. It goes back to what I was saying about opportunities, being able to have an education is one such opportunity.
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