Jill Stein: There is a Plan B for Sanders' Supporters looking to waste their vote - Polidicks

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50498284] It's not a great primary reason but to be fair it's people on the internet begging him to vote for a crook and a piece of shit instead of anyone else because one of the candidates might be racist and they're scared[/QUOTE] You're intentionally misconstruing peoples arguments in an attempt to build a strawman and you should stop that because it's dishonest.

[QUOTE=plunger435;50498340]Voting for a candidate you don't like because you're spiteful is on the same level as people voting for Clinton because she's a woman.[/QUOTE]I thought I was originally "throwing my vote away" so why does it matter? Why does my vote suddenly have meaning if I was just going to "waste" it anyway?

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50498337]It isn't hinging, and I guess hyperbole doesn't exist in the UK. What does it matter anyway? I've been told up and down how my third party vote "won't count" over and over, so why [B]does a willy nilly decision based on trolling people with my vote suddenly have weight?[/B] It's one or the other, so again I ask which I should vote for: Third party or Donald Trump. Actually let's compare point to point: First post: Previous post: First post: Previous post: First post: Other posts: First post: Other posts: I'm not seeing opposites here.[/QUOTE] I am, right at the top where you again say your primary motivation for voting Trump has nothing to do with anything meaningful. [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50498350]I thought I was originally "throwing my vote away" so why does it matter? Why does my vote suddenly have meaning if I was just going to "waste" it anyway?[/QUOTE] I never said you were wasting a vote by voting third party. I said you were wasting a vote by voting for someone out of spite. Which is true.

[QUOTE=plunger435;50498365]I am, right at the top where you again say your primary motivation for voting Trump has nothing to do with anything meaningful.[/QUOTE]His words, I don't consider keeping Hillary out of office a meaningless endeavor. [QUOTE]I never said you were wasting a vote by voting third party. I said you were wasting a vote by voting for someone out of spite. Which is true.[/QUOTE]Why? I already said Trump [I]partially[/I] represents me and the people who do represent me have statistically no chance of winning. How is it a waste if I finally arrive to the conclusion that it's the way I should vote if I get angry and annoyed with Hillary supporters? You keep worming your way out of answering, fucking shit or get off the pot, plunger435 and answer me. How is it a waste when there are at least [I]some[/I] things he'll possibly do that I like?

[QUOTE=plunger435;50498320]"Lying to defend pedos", a single case in 1975 she petitioned the judge to recuse her from at the start of the trial, and with no evidence of lying.[/QUOTE] [quote] In the recordings, dubbed the "Hillary Tapes," Clinton is heard laughing as she describes how she succeeded at getting her client a lighter sentence, despite suggesting she knew he was guilty. "He took a lie-detector test! I had him take a polygraph, which he passed, which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs," Clinton said about her client on the tapes, which were initially recorded, but never used, in the early 1980s.[/quote] Also I'm sure that woman feels a lot better knowing that it was only 1975 and thus it doesn't matter that her current presidential candidate suggested she wanted it and smeared her and got her childhood rapist out of a proper sentence. But yknow defending Hillary for doing that is totally fine, but suggesting that deporting illegals isn't racist and that saying a judge that's appointed by your political enemy and is a member of an advocacy group that directly opposes your most famous policies shouldn't be your judge isn't either, no that's crazy. [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Raidyr;50498345]You're intentionally misconstruing peoples arguments in an attempt to build a strawman and you should stop that because it's dishonest.[/QUOTE] It's literally the first reply of the thread [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=plunger435;50498340]Voting for a candidate you don't like because you're spiteful is on the same level as people voting for Clinton because she's a woman.[/QUOTE] And here we are trying to say I'm strawmanning even though this post is here lol

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50498390]His words, I don't consider keeping Hillary out of office a meaningless endeavor. Why? I already said Trump [I]partially[/I] represents me and the people who do represent me have statistically no chance of winning. [B]How is it a waste if I finally arrive to the conclusion that it's the way I should vote if I get angry and annoyed with Hillary supporters?[/B] You keep worming your way out of answering, fucking shit or get off the pot, plunger435 and answer me. How is it a waste when there are at least [I]some[/I] things he'll possibly do that I like?[/QUOTE] You finally arrived at the conclusion that you agree with third party candidates not Trump. [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50498137]Yes, voting for Donald Trump is going against my principles since I've said clearly that voting third party is what I'm going to do if Bernie doesn't get elected. I've said this plainly and I have moral reasons to do so, partially because I[B] don't think Trump is quite so genuine and I do disagree with him [U]strongly[/U] on some things. Voting for him would mean going back on my word[/B], but if it means keeping Hillary out of office (which is a major goal of mine) and also pissing off you and your ilk, maybe that's just what it takes to make me toss one in for him.[/QUOTE] Here's you in your own words saying Trump goes against your principles, doesn't represent you, and the big thing is that it pisses of Clinton supporters. So yes voting against your own interests, which you've declared to be third party, just because you think it's trolling and upsets Clinton voters is definitely you wasting your own vote.

For the past few pages you've been going on about a private recording from decades ago as if it outweighs far more recent examples of insane shit her opponent has spewed.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50498406]Also I'm sure that woman feels a lot better knowing that it was only 1975 and thus it doesn't matter that her current presidential candidate suggested she wanted it and smeared her and got her childhood rapist out of a proper sentence. But yknow defending Hillary for doing that is totally fine, but suggesting that deporting illegals isn't racist and that saying a judge that's appointed by your political enemy and is a member of an advocacy group that directly opposes your most famous policies shouldn't be your judge isn't either, no that's crazy. [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] It's literally the first reply of the thread [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] And here we are trying to say I'm strawmanning even though this post is here lol[/QUOTE] You said 30 years of politicking and lying was picked up from her lying, which you didn't actually provide any evidence for, to defend pedos, again; not sure how a case she tried to get off of in '75 constitutes multiple pedophiles. Not sure what you're saying with the last bit, my post doesn't relate to what Raidyr is saying.

[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;50498433]For the past few pages you've been going on about a private recording from decades ago as if it outweighs far more recent examples of insane shit her opponent has spewed.[/QUOTE] This isn't even the only thing she's done But yeah attacking a 12 year old rape victim to win a case is miles worse than "illegals suck" Show me something that's as bad that Trump has done. [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=plunger435;50498438]You said 30 years of politicking and lying was picked up from her lying, which you didn't actually provide any evidence for, to defend pedos, again; not sure how a case she tried to get off of in '75 constitutes multiple pedophiles. Not sure what you're saying with the last bit, my post doesn't relate to what Raidyr is saying.[/QUOTE] Like I've clarified about a dozen times now, since you insist on telling me what I'm saying, I said she probably learned to lie constantly from when she was a lawyer doing shit like this.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50498450]This isn't even the only thing she's done But yeah attacking a 12 year old rape victim to win a case is miles worse than "illegals suck" Show me something that's as bad that Trump has done. [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] Like I've clarified about a dozen times now, since you insist on telling me what I'm saying, I said she probably learned to lie constantly from when she was a lawyer doing shit like this.[/QUOTE] Which you can do without insinuating someone has a history of lying on the behalf of pedophiles.

[QUOTE=plunger435;50498484]Which you can do without insinuating someone has a history of lying on the behalf of pedophiles.[/QUOTE] "History" 1975 "Lying" bragging about winning despite knowing he was guilty. "Behalf of pedophiles" the guy raped a 12 year old. Call it paedophile if you want but it's not a big difference. [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] Didn't insinuate shit it happened.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50498496]"History" 1975 "Lying" bragging about winning despite knowing he was guilty. "Behalf of pedophiles" the guy raped a 12 year old. Call it paedophile if you want but it's not a big difference. [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] Didn't insinuate shit it happened.[/QUOTE] If you're just going to condense things trump's said to "illegals suck" you've clearly already made up your mind and shut yourself off from any other point of view or path of reasoning. Way to miss the point of democracy.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50498496]"History" 1975 "Lying" bragging about winning despite knowing he was guilty. "Behalf of pedophiles" the guy raped a 12 year old. Call it paedophile if you want but it's not a big difference. [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] Didn't insinuate shit it happened.[/QUOTE] Uh yeah it is difference. You have no basis for lying, and a single case she tried to recuse herself from is completely different from a history of lying for pedophiles plural, I would like to believe you also know establishing history means multiple events, and you're just trying to take the piss on that one.

[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;50498508]If you're just going to condense things trump's said to "illegals suck" you've clearly already made up your made and shut yourself off from any other point of view or path of reasoning. Way to miss the point of democracy.[/QUOTE] This is why no one listens, when asked for some info or sources they always dash off [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=plunger435;50498511]Uh yeah it is difference. You have no basis for lying, and a single case she tried to recuse herself from is completely different from a history of lying for pedophiles plural, I would like to believe you also know establishing history means multiple events, and you're just trying to take the piss on that one.[/QUOTE] Are you really claiming to have been arguing semantics to escape that I had sources you didn't think I had? I'm not taking the piss out of anything, it's not funny. You're the one insinuating that I said she did the same thing multiplle times, I suggested she was a lawyer that had defended pedos. Afaik she didn't resign following her first case. But I guess it's easier to derail this thread than explain why Never Hillary is bad.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50498518]This is why no one listens, when asked for some info or sources they always dash off[/QUOTE] No one asked for those sources because everyone is already aware of the case, it'd be hard to not know it considering it's the only one anyone parrots. You're acting like you've ambushed people with these sources that have been circulating since 2015, on this forum no less. They were dismissed for the same reason we're doing now, you're trying to establish a history that isn't there. Are you legitimately saying now that lawyers who take cases based on the DA should immediately resign after?

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50498518]This is why no one listens, when asked for some info or sources they always dash off[/QUOTE] You want info, here's some examples Calling for 1.4 billion people to be banned from the United States Calling for an idiotic wall to built that would absolutely not solve anything, and on top of that, try to extort another sovereign country Calling for our armed forces to torture prisoners with impunity, and kill the families of terrorists for good measure Calling for us to abandon our allies in eastern Europe by pulling out of nato, which would essentially let Putin have his way with every country between Russia and Germany Wanting us to bomb Iraq and Syria's oil fields, despite that being the quickest way to collapse their economies. That's just the shortlist.

I asked to be shown a single thing he's done that's worse than what she did in that case. [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;50498552]You want info, here's some examples Calling for 1.4 billion people to be banned from the United States Calling for an idiotic wall to built that would absolutely not solve anything, and on top of that, try to extort another sovereign country Calling for our armed forces to torture prisoners with impunity, and kill the families of terrorists for good measure Calling for us to abandon our allies in eastern Europe by pulling out of nato, which would essentially let Putin have his way with every country between Russia and Germany Wanting us to bomb Iraq and Syria's oil fields, despite that being the quickest way to collapse their economies. That's just the shortlist.[/QUOTE] I see hyperbole and no links. Some of these sound familiar and the way you put them suggests I can't trust the ones that aren't to be unbiased. Edit: Also a lot of calling for and no "did"

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50498555] I see hyperbole and no links. Some of these sound familiar and the way you put them suggests I can't trust the ones that aren't to be unbiased.[/QUOTE] First point:[URL]http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-calls-total-complete-shutdown-muslims-entering/story?id=35631255[/URL] Second point:[URL]https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/pay-for-the-wall[/URL] Third point:[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/22/warning-of-u-s-attacks-donald-trump-advocates-allowing-torture/[/URL] and [URL]http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politics/donald-trump-terrorists-families/[/URL] Fourth point:[URL]http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/28/donald-trump-nato-very-obsolete/[/URL] Final point:[URL]http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/10/politics/donald-trump-fact-check-bomb-oil-fields-iraq/[/URL]

"No 'did'" all clinton did in that video was talk. "Some of these sound familiar" five seconds on Google and you'll find hundreds of links either to articles discussing what he said or him saying it himself. Unless you've been hiding under a rock for the past year, I'm not going to spoofeed you things you obviously know about, and are clearly trying to be obtuse on.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50498555]I asked to be shown a single thing he's done that's worse than what she did in that case.[/QUOTE] Defrauding people who attended Trump University seminars and [URL="http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/"]potentially withholding hundreds of thousands of dollars in unpaid wages[/URL], as well as [URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/06/10/dozens-lawsuits-accuse-trump-not-paying-his-bills-reports-claim.html"]treating workers like shit and not paying the bills. [/URL]

[QUOTE=plunger435;50498421]You finally arrived at the conclusion that you agree with third party candidates not Trump.[/QUOTE]Finally? No, that was my conclusion [I]before I opened the thread.[/I] Reading comprehension is your friend, those were the principles I'm expected to violate. [QUOTE]Here's you in your own words saying Trump goes against your principles, doesn't represent you,[/QUOTE]Only the Sith deal in absolutes. [QUOTE]So yes voting against your own interests, which you've declared to be third party, just because you think it's trolling and upsets Clinton voters is definitely you wasting your own vote.[/QUOTE]How typical, you ignore everything I say and then start inserting things at your discretion so you can reinforce your own conclusion. I stated plainly in the quote that you provided that I disagree with him on [I][U]some[/U] things[/I] which is [I][U]not[/U][/I] [I][U]all[/U] things[/I] and I've even done you the courtesy of formatting this statement to put emphasis on the most important parts. I'll do it again: [B]Voting third party is my [U]most[/U] [U]preferred[/U] option.[/B] It's more of a political statement than anything, I know [B]a third party candidate is not likely to win.[/B] [B]Voting for Bernie Sanders was my [U]second[/U] [U]preferred[/U] option.[/B] I think he had a chance to at least somewhat represent me and falls in line with my "shake up the system" agenda. [B]He is not an available option.[/B] [B]Voting for Donald Trump is my [U]least[/U] [U]preferred[/U] option.[/B] I feel he is dishonest and doesn't represent me very well. [B]I don't imagine he would be successful, so four years of nothing wouldn't be so bad.[/B] [B]Voting for Hillary Clinton is [U]not[/U] [U]acceptable.[/U][/B] Having her in office absolutely would not represent me, it would actually represent some very important things that I [U]do[/U] [U]not[/U] [U]want.[/U] [B]Having Hillary in office would mean I am harmed, no matter what.[/B] So deliberately sabotaging my ideals and "voting strategically" is more than enough reason to vote for Trump to keep Hillary out. No waste of vote. [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] P.S. Even if I were wasting my vote I have every right to do that anyway. Deal with it. [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] My favorite part out of all of this is you're just trying to underhandedly argue that a vote for Trump is inherently wrong, but you're trying to twist my words to do it which is [U]exactly[/U] the sort of shit that makes a guy like me spiteful. Keep shooting yourself in the foot while the rest of us Make America Great Again!

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50498337]It isn't hinging, and I guess hyperbole doesn't exist in the UK. What does it matter anyway? I've been told up and down how my third party vote "won't count" over and over, so why does a willy nilly decision based on trolling people with my vote suddenly have weight? It's one or the other, so again I ask which I should vote for: Third party or Donald Trump.[/QUOTE] then vote third party i'm baffled as to why there are people who tell me how much they hate trump and his policy ideas, and then turn around and tell me they'll vote for him out of spite for sanders losing the nomination

"Voting third party is my most preferred option"

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50498753]then vote third party i'm baffled as to why there are people who tell me how much they hate trump and his policy ideas, and then turn around and tell me they'll vote for him out of spite for sanders losing the nomination[/QUOTE] Apparently he "won't be able to do much damage" despite the fact that both chambers of the house are in Republican control and he'll appoint a Republican judge to the supreme Court, thereby putting all three branches of government into Republican hands. But nah, apparently we're just fearmongering.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50498753]then vote third party i'm baffled as to why there are people who tell me how much they hate trump and his policy ideas, and then turn around and tell me they'll vote for him out of spite for sanders losing the nomination[/QUOTE]I'll be honest, I wasn't even half serious when I posted that. I'll stand by my words though, I might very well vote for Trump if it looks like he needs my help to keep Hillary out and if plunger435 really wants to try and convince me to dig in my heels further then so be it. [QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;50498761]Apparently he "won't be able to do much damage" despite the fact that both chambers of the house are in Republican control and he'll appoint a Republican judge to the supreme Court, thereby putting all three branches of government into Republican hands. But nah, apparently we're just fearmongering.[/QUOTE]Oh no not the [I]Republicans![/I] Nevermind the fact that Trump isn't liked by his own party and the GOP has been steadily fracturing since 2008. Oh, and pay no attention to the fact that even long-time Republican senators wouldn't vote for half the crazy shit he wants to do while he fumbles around making an ass of himself. Nope, the [I]Republicans[/I] are in town so lock up your wife and lock up your kids because aaaaaaaaa they're gonna do mean stuff. :( Nevermind that I'm a slightly right of center independent who doesn't piss himself silly when [I]the Republicans[/I] are mentioned. Yeah, you are fucking fearmongering.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50498798]I'll be honest, I wasn't even half serious when I posted that. I'll stand by my words though, I might very well vote for Trump if it looks like he needs my help to keep Hillary out and if plunger435 really wants to try and convince me to dig in my heels further then so be it. Oh no not the [I]Republicans![/I] Nevermind the fact that Trump isn't liked by his own party and the GOP has been steadily fracturing since 2008. Oh, and pay no attention to the fact that even long-time Republican senators wouldn't vote for half the crazy shit he wants to do while he fumbles around making an ass of himself. Nope, the [I]Republicans[/I] are in town so lock up your wife and lock up your kids because aaaaaaaaa they're gonna do mean stuff. :( Nevermind that I'm a slightly right of center independent who doesn't piss himself silly when [I]the Republicans[/I] are mentioned. Yeah, you are fucking fearmongering.[/QUOTE] Duh we don't like him, it'll end up fracturing the party. I'd rather a momentary setback than that.

[QUOTE=plunger435;50498813]Duh we don't like him, it'll end up fracturing the party. I'd rather a momentary setback than that.[/QUOTE]Good, both parties need to burn down to the ground because the polarization of American politics is retarded. Look at this thread, hell look at your post, it's all about the party rather than the issues. Fuck the party, I hope it crumbles into a million pieces.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50498798]I'll be honest, I wasn't even half serious when I posted that. I'll stand by my words though, I might very well vote for Trump if it looks like he needs my help to keep Hillary out and if plunger435 really wants to try and convince me to dig in my heels further then so be it.[/QUOTE] why trump over hillary? i mean vote for a third party candidate or whatever but why the hell trump? he's a complete laughing stock of the rest of the world, his policy proposals are insane, he thinks vaccines cause autism and that global warming is a myth invented by the chinese. he bullies people and is a vain petulant manchild who could happily spend hours talking about insecurities because somebody made a snide comment about his hands being smalll and this guy could potentially become leader of a major geopolitical power, one of the largest economies, and one of the strongest military forces.

I think what J was getting at is that he doesn't like Hillary, and there's a million reasons spanning a long ass time for feeling that way, and when Hillary's people demand he votes for her out of fear that Trump will win and that his third party vote is meaningless, that it only gives him more reason to vote Trump or not at all. "Z is not an option, we must unite to vote for Y because X is bad", but he's seen how exaggerated feelings about X are, and knows from years of participation that Y isn't an option for him, what's left?

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50498839]Good, both parties need to burn down to the ground because the polarization of American politics is retarded. Look at this thread, hell look at your post, it's all about the party rather than the issues. Fuck the party, I hope it crumbles into a million pieces.[/QUOTE] Here in reality that actually has consequences and doesn't actually fix anything.