Jill Stein: There is a Plan B for Sanders' Supporters looking to waste their vote - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50498841]i mean vote for a third party candidate or whatever but why the hell trump?[/QUOTE]I'll use these three quotes to answer you:[QUOTE]he's a complete laughing stock of the rest of the world, his policy proposals are insane, he thinks vaccines cause autism and that global warming is a myth invented by the chinese. he bullies people and is a vain petulant manchild who could happily spend hours talking about insecurities because somebody made a snide comment about his hands being smalll[/QUOTE][QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50498798]Oh, and pay no attention to the fact that even long-time Republican senators wouldn't vote for half the crazy shit he wants to do while he fumbles around making an ass of himself.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50498734]I don't imagine he would be successful, so four years of nothing wouldn't be so bad.[/QUOTE] Instead of delving into why Hillary is bad and spending hours talking about political corruption and the finer nuances of her policies I'll boil it down to one thing that I will not budge on [B]ever:[/B] Hillary has made it abundantly clear that gun confiscation is on her agenda. [editline]oh and[/editline] So yes, between a barely concealed fascist and a populist retard my choice is clear. That's why I've been so strong on third party though, at least I can make a statement with that. My mind isn't at all thoroughly made up here, so I don't know what I'll do.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50498882]I'll use these three quotes to answer you: Instead of delving into why Hillary is bad and spending hours talking about political corruption and the finer nuances of her policies I'll boil it down to one thing that I will not budge on [B]ever:[/B] [B]Hillary has made it abundantly clear that gun confiscation is on her agenda.[/B][/QUOTE] How did you come to that conclusion.

-I got my tabs mixed up, bear with me-

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50498882]Instead of delving into why Hillary is bad and spending hours talking about political corruption and the finer nuances of her policies I'll boil it down to one thing that I will not budge on [B]ever:[/B] Hillary has made it abundantly clear that gun confiscation is on her agenda.[/QUOTE] trump says he's bringing back torture and deporting millions of people lmao idk how you think hillary will take some dumb guns when obama has been trying for years to pass some watered down gun legislation and nothing really came of it

[QUOTE=plunger435;50498893]How did you come to that conclusion.[/QUOTE] I'll wait for him to source it but I'm not gonna be surprised if she's said she's pro gun and anti gun at some point given her track record for flipflopping on just about everything [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;50498905]trump says he's bringing back torture and deporting millions of people lmao idk how you think hillary will take some dumb guns when obama has been trying for years to pass some watered down gun legislation and nothing really came of it[/QUOTE] Ok what If people are going to say that "they'll never get it passed" isnt a reason to ignore stupid shit such as what Trump said about a sick vaccinated kid (he said he's still pro vax too btw) then why use it on Hillary?

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50498906]If people are gonna use the concept that "they'll never get it passed" isnt a reason to ignore stupid shit such as what he said about a sick vaccinated kid (he said he's still pro vax too btw) then why use it on Hillary?[/QUOTE] i doubt hillary is going to be focusing on guns regardless even then, all of the ideas that trump has are worse than confiscating a few toys. we're talking about torture and the lives of millions of people that will be impacted by this. we're talking about a guy in charge of the foreign policy of a major global power also trump heavily implied that vaccines caused autism and literally states that the chinese invented global warming why the fuck would somebody vote for a guy who thinks so little of a major ecological crisis that he thinks the chinese made the whole thing up?

If people think that trumps lies and backpedals a lot, but give hillary a free pass when she also does -nevermind the reason- then something is very wrong. If hillary is lying to cater to most democrats and trump is lying to cater to most republicans, the only difference is in what they did before. And honestly, in making shady business and fucking around in NY politics vs lying about being completely disorganized with state secrets, flip flopping since inmemorial times, not releasing the speeches she gave to some veeeery influential people, giving 0 fucks about child soldiers in Sudan and....is there anything else? Hell, I wish you guys had a more clear choice, but honestly, thats a fucked up election!

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50498940]i doubt hillary is going to be focusing on guns regardless[/QUOTE][QUOTE=plunger435;50498893]How did you come to that conclusion.[/QUOTE][url]http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Gun_Control.htm[/url] Lots of stuff on this, more or less covers it all. Some more sources: [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/us/politics/hillary-clinton-campaign.html[/url] Mentions it [url]https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/gun-violence-prevention/[/url] <-- this one doesn't load for me, might be my ISP [url]http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/05/04/hillary-clinton-plans-executive-action-to-exceed-obama-on-gun-control/[/url] Biased Breitbart, but does source in article [url]http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/16/hillary-clinton-australia-gun-ban-worth-looking-u-s/[/url] Included video is her speaking, mandatory buyback [I]is[/I] confiscation I'll leave it there, I can find more if you want but my internet is slow so I'd prefer if you just went and googled for more additional information. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;50498940]even then, all of the ideas that trump has are worse than confiscating a few toys.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I stopped reading here because they aren't "toys." I made it clear in probably a hundred threads that I equate 1st and 2nd Amendment rights as the bare minimum for a free society, so if you're dismissing them as toys I ain't got a fucking thing to say to you. Just accept this cultural difference, because I won't reverse my opinion.

So are you saying Britain isn't a free society? I know this is probably going to devolve into a pro or anti-gun train wreck but remember 2008 when people said Obama was going take all our guns away and put people in FEMA camps? Remember when that never happened?

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50498976][URL]http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Gun_Control.htm[/URL] Lots of stuff on this, more or less covers it all. Some more sources: [URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/us/politics/hillary-clinton-campaign.html[/URL] Mentions it [URL]https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/gun-violence-prevention/[/URL] <-- this one doesn't load for me, might be my ISP [URL]http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/05/04/hillary-clinton-plans-executive-action-to-exceed-obama-on-gun-control/[/URL] Biased Breitbart, but does source in article [URL]http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/16/hillary-clinton-australia-gun-ban-worth-looking-u-s/[/URL] Included video is her speaking, mandatory buyback [I]is[/I] confiscation I'll leave it there, I can find more if you want but my internet is slow so I'd prefer if you just went and googled for more additional information. Yeah, I stopped reading here because they aren't "toys." I made it clear in probably a hundred threads that I equate 1st and 2nd Amendment rights as the bare minimum for a free society, so if you're dismissing them as toys I ain't got a fucking thing to say to you. Just accept this cultural difference, because I won't reverse my opinion.[/QUOTE] That only shows the same thing all democrats say, stricter background checks and closing loopholes. I.E. The same exact thing Obama said to get elected. Nothing about registration/confiscation.

[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;50498991]So are you saying Britain isn't a free society?[/QUOTE]I am saying that, yes. Hate speech laws, restrictions on gun rights and self-defense, massive overarching surveillance... do I really need to explain myself here? Well, even if I do, I'm not. You asked, I answered.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50498976]Yeah, I stopped reading here because they aren't "toys." I made it clear in probably a hundred threads that I equate 1st and 2nd Amendment rights as the bare minimum for a free society, so if you're dismissing them as toys I ain't got a fucking thing to say to you.[/QUOTE] voting in trump comes dangerously close to getting rid of the bare minimum rights for society considering he outright states he wants to introduce harsher forms of torture, deport millions of people for the crime of being brown, and overturn the recent ruling on gay marriage. these are probably more important than mildly restricting a hobby nobody really cares about [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50499004]I am saying that, yes. Hate speech laws, restrictions on gun rights and self-defense, massive overarching surveillance... do I really need to explain myself here? Well, even if I do, I'm not.[/QUOTE] well if you read shitty tabloids and are gullible then yeah you're right about us being unfree

[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;50498991]Remember when that never happened?[/QUOTE]... What does that have to do with anything? So wait, when I say "half the crazy shit Trump wants won't happen" that's not true but when you say, "half the crazy shit Hillary wants won't happen" that's automatically true because reasons?

[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;50498991]So are you saying Britain isn't a free society? I know this is probably going to devolve into a pro or anti-gun train wreck but remember 2008 when people said Obama was going take all our guns away and put people in FEMA camps? Remember when that never happened?[/QUOTE] You can apply the exact same thing to trump and honestly the stupid FEMA camp conspiracy is way more comparable to what people say about Trump than Hillary being anti gun

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50499009]... What does that have to do with anything? So wait, when I say "half the crazy shit Trump wants won't happen" that's not true but when you say, "half the crazy shit Hillary wants won't happen" that's automatically true because reasons?[/QUOTE] Because gun-clutching wackos have been screaming about the evil federal government coming for their weapons since the 90s, and not once has it ever happened. That should not have been hard to understand.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50499008]voting in trump comes dangerously close to getting rid of the bare minimum rights for society considering he outright states he wants to introduce harsher forms of torture, deport millions of people for the crime of being brown, and overturn the recent ruling on gay marriage. these are probably more important than mildly restricting a hobby nobody really cares about well if you read shitty tabloids and are gullible then yeah you're right about us being unfree[/QUOTE] "Crime of being brown" Hi credibility have you met door? It's illegals. Not all illegals are Hispanic and not all Hispanics are illegals. If your entry was a crime and you continue to perpetuate it, why shouldn't you be pushed out? When you sneak into a theater without a ticket or pretend to be an employee you get rightfully removed. There is a process in place for all of those.

[QUOTE=plunger435;50498993]That only shows the same thing all democrats say, stricter background checks and closing loopholes. I.E. The same exact thing Obama said to get elected. Nothing about registration/confiscation.[/QUOTE]Last link, the included video where she says that Australia's gun control is "worth looking at" in regards to applying it here. No, it's not. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;50499008]considering he outright states he wants to introduce harsher forms of torture,[/QUOTE]So? 8th amendment. [QUOTE]deport millions of people for the crime of being brown,[/QUOTE]For being illegal immigrants. I agree with this. [QUOTE]and overturn the recent ruling on gay marriage.[/QUOTE]I'm not sure how he can do this since the SCOTUS decided that, sounds like populist bullshit. [QUOTE]these are probably more important than mildly restricting a hobby nobody really cares about[/QUOTE]I guess over half the country doesn't count when it's inconvenient! Yeah, I said plainly if you're going to persist in this shit then I don't have anything to say to you. [QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;50499017]Because gun-clutching wackos have been screaming about the evil federal government coming for their weapons since the 90s, and not once has it ever happened. That should not have been hard to understand.[/QUOTE]Except it has repeatedly, where the fuck have you been? [QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50499022]"Crime of being brown" Hi credibility have you met door? It's illegals. Not all illegals are Hispanic and not all Hispanics are illegals[/QUOTE]I think it's bullshit that the regressive left tries to pin this, it does a disservice to Hispanic-Americans who have been in this country for decades. Fuck that.

Name one time it's happened. And no, not voluntary buyback programs, honest to God "FBI knocking down doors and taking weapons at gunpoint" And yeah torturing prisoners is no big deal when the only thing you give a shit about is guns.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50499022]"Crime of being brown" Hi credibility have you met door? It's illegals. Not all illegals are Hispanic and not all Hispanics are illegals. If your entry was a crime and you continue to perpetuate it, why shouldn't you be pushed out? When you sneak into a theater without a ticket or pretend to be an employee you get rightfully removed. There is a process in place for all of those.[/QUOTE] generally because the logistics and morality of displacing millions of mexicans is a bit dubious at best many of them have made new lives for themselves in america and the country hasn't been destroyed

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50499046]Last link, the included video where she says that Australia's gun control is "worth looking at" in regards to applying it here. No, it's not. So? 8th amendment. For being illegal immigrants. I agree with this. I'm not sure how he can do this since the SCOTUS decided that, sounds like populist bullshit. I guess over half the country doesn't count when it's inconvenient! Yeah, I said plainly if you're going to persist in this shit then I don't have anything to say to you. Except it has repeatedly, where the fuck have you been? I think it's bullshit that the regressive left tries to pin this, it does a disservice to Hispanic-Americans who have been in this country for decades. Fuck that.[/QUOTE] Someone asked them about, they responded. If "worth looking into" somehow equates to "Hillary Clinton is taking away all our guns" you need to reevaluate the issues this elections.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50499046]So? 8th amendment.[/quote] nevermind that capital punishment is a thing (in addition to forced labour in prisons and the astronomically huge prisoner numbers) [quote]For being illegal immigrants. I agree with this.[/quote] this means deporting millions of people, many of who haven't done anything wrong besides living in a country they aren't allowed to live in because? [quote]I'm not sure how he can do this since the SCOTUS decided that, sounds like populist bullshit.[/QUOTE] he has the power to appoint new supreme court guys [editline]12th June 2016[/editline] also he still denies global warming and claims vaccines cause autism iunno how taking banning some scrap metal takes precedence over an ecological crisis that threatens the very existence of billions

[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;50499051]Name one time it's happened. And no, not voluntary buyback programs, honest to God "FBI knocking down doors and taking weapons at gunpoint" And yeah torturing prisoners is no big deal when the only thing you give a shit about is guns.[/QUOTE] Whiskey Rebellion, while it wasn't about guns is one event that comes to mind. It's sort of similar to the situation that conspiracy talks about. Basically some distillers were protesting taxes on whiskey and it was responded to with 13,000 troops. You can easily see the same thing happening if a big government decided to shut down the 2nd amendment. Hell there's your answer, the amendment is pretty much why it hasn't happened yet. But amendments have been repealed before.

[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;50499051]Name one time it's happened. And no, not voluntary buyback programs, honest to God "FBI knocking down doors and taking weapons at gunpoint"[/QUOTE]Hurricane Katrina, but that was ad hoc and on the fly. Hmm, Ruby Ridge is a great example. I think Waco counts too, but not quite as much. Ken Ballew raid, but I'd argue that was more of an example of why the BATFE needs to be gutted and overhauled. Agencies in the executive branch shouldn't be overstepping their authority like that. Even better example of that [U]and[/U] also an example of stripping somebody of their 2nd Amendment rights would be the case of William Fleming, a Class 3 NFA dealer who outed ATF agents at a gun show. Oh, and Jerry Drasen, apparently having a mishmash of junk qualifies as having an unregistered assault rifle to the BATFE. Those are just off the top of my head. [QUOTE=plunger435;50499078]Someone asked them about, they responded. If "worth looking into" somehow equates to "Hillary Clinton is taking away all our guns" you need to reevaluate the issues this elections.[/QUOTE]I said "has made it clear that it's on her agenda," which is drastically different than the shit you just tried to shovel. Try again.

Because apparently those pieces of scrap metal are vital to the institution of democracy despite there being plenty of successful democracies with gun laws stricter than ours.

1nfiniteseed in case you haven't figured it out, for gun rights activists there is no difference between playing fast and loose with the law and making a new law that says you need to give up your guns. Case in point about that, look at California and all of it's stupid horseshit.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50499105]Hurricane Katrina, but that was ad hoc and on the fly. Hmm, Ruby Ridge is a great example. I think Waco counts too, but not quite as much. Ken Ballew raid, but I'd argue that was more of an example of why the BATFE needs to be gutted and overhauled. Agencies in the executive branch shouldn't be overstepping their authority like that. Even better example of that [U]and[/U] also an example of stripping somebody of their 2nd Amendment rights would be the case of William Fleming, a Class 3 NFA dealer who outed ATF agents at a gun show. Oh, and Jerry Drasen, apparently having a mishmash of junk qualifies as having an unregistered assault rifle to the BATFE. Those are just off the top of my head. I said "has made it clear that it's on her agenda," which is drastically different than the shit you just tried to shovel. Try again.[/QUOTE] Except it's not on her agenda, nor has confiscation been on any major presidential candidates agenda. It's political suicide and everyone knows it. For it to be her agenda she wild need to be actively petitioning for it, formulating policies, saying you'll think about it when asked isn't an agenda.

It's not "because?" lol. It's fucking laws. If I leave the door unlocked and a hobo sneaks in and has a "new life" and cooks me great meals I'm still likely to kick him out. Should've asked me and offered his skills up front.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50499009]... What does that have to do with anything? So wait, when I say "half the crazy shit Trump wants won't happen" that's not true but when you say, "half the crazy shit Hillary wants won't happen" that's automatically true because reasons?[/QUOTE] It comes from an understanding of the current climate in Congress. You waved it away earlier as fearmongering, completely ignorant to the fact that the Republican party does have an agenda and parts of that agenda overlap with what Trump wants, and even though he wasn't the GOP establishments first pick they aren't going to suddenly reverse those platforms. Take the ACA for example. They have tried 60 times to repeal it. Trump has said that one of the first things he will do is scrap it. Do you seriously think Republicans aren't going to go along with that? As far as Clinton and gun control, again, look at how American politics has worked for the past 8 years as a source of historical precedent. Obama promised that one of the first things he would do in office is push a federal AWB. 8 years later and the only thing that has happened under his presidency is an expansion of gun rights in national parks. Absolutely no additional regulation, definitely not so far as an AWB. The last time Congress tried to regulate guns was with an extremely watered down background check/private seller law that barely affected gun owners/gun sellers and even that failed to get the votes. Democratic leadership even stopped Feinstein from putting her assault weapon ban up for debate to push this weaksauce bill and it didn't get the votes. Unless a major shift to the left occurs in Democrats and they win a mandate during the next midterm elections I seriously doubt any sweeping gun legislation will pass. This shit has nuance, just because Trump promises to do one thing and Clinton promises to do the other you can't say "Well they are both shitty and they are both making promises and they are both liars so who the fuck knows what's going to happen lol!".

[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;50499109]Because apparently those pieces of scrap metal are vital to the institution of democracy despite there being plenty of successful democracies with gun laws stricter than ours.[/QUOTE]They are, end of fucking line. Battle of Athens is a great example of why 2nd Amendment rights are vital in standing up against the government, and the Bundy protests are another (both times) even if they were in the wrong. I would rather have that right never fucked with. You know what stopped the cops from going in and fucking up some black neighborhoods during the Civil Rights Movement? The blacks were armed and got organized.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50499119]1nfiniteseed in case you haven't figured it out, for gun rights activists there is no difference between playing fast and loose with the law and making a new law that says you need to give up your guns. Case in point about that, look at California and all of it's stupid horseshit.[/QUOTE] Then perhaps gun rights activists need to retake high school government classes and understand why a large scale rollback of gun rights is a right wing fantasy.