Transgender man gives birth in Germany, fights for the right to be called the father. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=gokiyono;42200268]Because it is pretty stupid. You are born female, you do not feel right that way, so you undergo surgery to become a man. That's alright, all power to you. But then you suddenly want to be able to do something that a man can't do?[/QUOTE] because they wanted to have a child that carried their physical traits without having to go through the bullshit with adoption?? [QUOTE]If you really want to be a man, you should face the consequences of it.[/QUOTE] why explain why this is necessary.

[QUOTE=joes33431;42202219]why explain why this is necessary.[/QUOTE] Because male humans doesn't give birth. You want to be a man, fine, but you are doing something a woman does, which kinda defeats the purpose.

[QUOTE=gokiyono;42202321]Because male humans doesn't give birth. You want to be a man, fine, but you are doing something a woman does, which kinda defeats the purpose.[/QUOTE] That doesn't explain why it is necessary. How does it harm society for him to be the father and the birth parent? (I feel like a parrot, but this question keeps getting evaded)

[QUOTE=gokiyono;42202321]Because male humans doesn't give birth. You want to be a man, fine, but you are doing something a woman does, which kinda defeats the purpose.[/QUOTE] You're too obsessed with the gender binary.

[QUOTE=Valnar;42202389]That doesn't explain why it is necessary. How does it harm society for him to be the father and the birth parent? (I feel like a parrot, but this question keeps getting evaded)[/QUOTE] It doesn't, and I never said it did. The thing I initially said was that it was stupid of him to suddenly want to be able to do something the opposite gender does.

[QUOTE=gokiyono;42202758]It doesn't, and I never said it did. The thing I initially said was that it was stupid of him to suddenly want to be able to do something the opposite gender does.[/QUOTE]You're entirely misinterpreting it though. He wants to have a child that is directly related to him, and unfortunately it is not possible at this time for him to be able to inseminate someone else as a cisman would. I'd love to be able to have a child as a ciswoman would, but that's not possible at this time, so my hands are rather tied.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42203191]You're entirely misinterpreting it though. He wants to have a child that is directly related to him, and unfortunately it is not possible at this time for him to be able to inseminate someone else as a cisman would. I'd love to be able to have a child as a ciswoman would, but that's not possible at this time, so my hands are rather tied.[/QUOTE] But isn't that completely ignoring the fact that you don't want to be a woman/man? Because that would surely seem like the last thing you would want to do if you felt like the opposite gender.

[QUOTE=gokiyono;42203259]But isn't that completely ignoring the fact that you don't want to be a woman/man? Because that would surely seem like the last thing you would want to do if you felt like the opposite gender.[/QUOTE]What? Have a kid?

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42203339]What? Have a kid?[/QUOTE] Yes? I don't know, it just seems silly that, when you feel like you are the opposite gender, suddenly you want to do something the gender you didn't want to be, are pretty well known for doing. I think leaving it would be the best idea, to be honest. We aren't really getting anywhere (Other than: "I think this thing" vs. "I think that thing")

he already had the kid, THEN he went through with the rest of his transition. honestly who seriously cares? how about just let him be happy that's the thing here, you can let someone continue to do something THAT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER and makes them happy, or you can whinge about it, gain nothing, and make someone feel awful.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42207029]he already had the kid, THEN he went through with the rest of his transition. honestly who seriously cares? how about just let him be happy that's the thing here, you can let someone continue to do something THAT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER and makes them happy, or you can whinge about it, gain nothing, and make someone feel awful.[/QUOTE] generally these "why should you care" posts are really shit, but they work very well in trans-related threads because.. honestly, how does this affect anybody at all? people are claiming that this transdude's decision to be legally seen as a father will somehow harm the integrity of how birth certificates work and shit like that. but... is it really that hard to go "where's your biological mother on this certificate?" "oh, he's ftm transgender" "oh that's quite alright."

also i just wanna say that not all trans people are the same and are often at different parts of the gender spectrum some people are more comfortable with their anatomical parts than others, so some transdudes might still wanna pop out a babe

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42207029]he already had the kid, THEN he went through with the rest of his transition. honestly who seriously cares? how about just let him be happy that's the thing here, you can let someone continue to do something THAT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER and makes them happy, or you can whinge about it, gain nothing, and make someone feel awful.[/QUOTE] "Just let them be happy" isn't a good reason when it comes to the legal world. I don't really care one way or the other, but if you think "it'll make them happier" by itself is a good enough reason for the government doing something it normally doesn't, you're really not getting how a government should work.

[QUOTE=Paramud;42207615]"Just let them be happy" isn't a good reason when it comes to the legal world. I don't really care one way or the other, but if you think "it'll make them happier" by itself is a good enough reason for the government doing something it normally doesn't, you're really not getting how a government should work.[/QUOTE] Name one good reason not to.

[QUOTE=Paramud;42207615]"Just let them be happy" isn't a good reason when it comes to the legal world. I don't really care one way or the other, but if you think "it'll make them happier" by itself is a good enough reason for the government doing something it normally doesn't, you're really not getting how a government should work.[/QUOTE] yeah you're right a government shouldn't be trying to make the lives of it's citizens better. besides, my post was more aimed at the people in this thread who are against it, the government obviously doesn't care because they let him be the father on the birth certificate

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42207960]Name one good reason not to.[/QUOTE] "It'll make them happy" isn't a good reason to. You can do better than that. [QUOTE=Lachz0r;42208126]yeah you're right a government shouldn't be trying to make the lives of it's citizens better.[/QUOTE] A government shouldn't do stuff for the sole purpose of "hey why not it's not like it matters"

[QUOTE=Paramud;42209009]"It'll make them happy" isn't a good reason to. You can do better than that.[/QUOTE] Stop dancing around the issue and give him a good reason. You're the one arguing, so you're the one that needs to be showing us some evidence.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42209049]Stop dancing around the issue and give him a good reason. You're the one arguing, so you're the one that needs to be showing us some evidence.[/QUOTE] Actually, you're projecting an argument onto me. Like I said, I don't care one way or the other. Father, mother, doesn't make a difference to me. I'm just pointing out that if a government does stuff for the sole purpose of appeasing a single person, it's a really shitty government. Now, if you want to come up with an actual argument besides "what's the harm," I'd be glad to listen to it and give a counterargument if I disagree with it.

[QUOTE=Paramud;42209277]A government shouldn't do stuff for the sole purpose of "hey why not it's not like it matters"[/QUOTE] Transgendered people are becoming more common so it would be a good idea for governments to adapt for situations like this now.

I agree, just not for that reason.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42207960]Name one good reason not to.[/QUOTE] Various medical reasons, especially genetics related problems.

[QUOTE=katbug;42209533]Various medical reasons, especially genetics related problems.[/QUOTE] It's not like the fact that he's biologically related to the child will suddenly be omitted from the birth certificate.

[QUOTE=katbug;42209533]Various medical reasons, especially genetics related problems.[/QUOTE]That will somehow become undetectable because of how a person is listed on a sheet of paper?

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42209553]That will somehow become undetectable because of how a person is listed on a sheet of paper?[/QUOTE] Certain traits are passed from the mother, some from the father. Sex is important to have down on biological, medical records, for more than a few reasons.

[QUOTE=katbug;42209625]Certain traits are passed from the mother, some from the father. Sex is important to have down on biological, medical records, for more than a few reasons.[/QUOTE] and that the father had a sex change would be on his medical records which they would consult if they were diagnosing hereditary illnesses

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42209639]and that the father had a sex change would be on his medical records which they would consult if they were diagnosing hereditary illnesses[/QUOTE] Because doctors never make mistakes, especially when handling conflicting records.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42209639]and that the father had a sex change would be on his medical records which they would consult if they were diagnosing hereditary illnesses[/QUOTE] There is no reason to argue this. Medical records are there for doctors, and they have to be CORRECT. Feelings don't matter when it comes down to choosing what medications to give, or what to assume when giving a diagnosis. Conflicting records are also a major pain in their asses and WILL slow down procedures.

[QUOTE=katbug;42209625]Certain traits are passed from the mother, some from the father. Sex is important to have down on biological, medical records, for more than a few reasons.[/QUOTE] John Johnson. Biological relative to child childson. FTM transgender. there we go!

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42209759]John Johnson. Biological relative to child childson. FTM transgender. there we go![/QUOTE] Yeah, but this person wants "john doe; father"

[QUOTE=katbug;42209768]Yeah, but this person wants "jane doe; Mother"[/QUOTE]No? Do you know how to read? He wants it to say Father. Hence the "FTM" part.