Transgender man gives birth in Germany, fights for the right to be called the father. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Paramud;42209676]Because doctors never make mistakes, especially when handling conflicting records.[/QUOTE] yeah because they'd totally just look at the birth certificate when trying to diagnose hereditary diseases or disorders????? [editline]16th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=katbug;42209694]There is no reason to argue this. Medical records are there for doctors, and they have to be CORRECT. Feelings don't matter when it comes down to choosing what medications to give, or what to assume when giving a diagnosis. Conflicting records are also a major pain in their asses and WILL slow down procedures.[/QUOTE] birth certificate is quite possibly the most useless document when it comes to diagnosing things

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42209779]No? Do you know how to read? He wants it to say Father. Hence the "FTM" part.[/QUOTE] Got it flipped, my bad. Same difference. Biological sex will appear before extensive medical history.

[QUOTE=katbug;42209625]Certain traits are passed from the mother, some from the father. Sex is important to have down on biological, medical records, for more than a few reasons.[/QUOTE] Then you add a field called "birthing parent" and put the birthing parent's name in it.

[QUOTE=Valnar;42209944]Then you add a field called "birthing parent" and put the birthing parent's name in it.[/QUOTE] Don't bother, katbug somehow can't perceive the idea of adding an extra field to a legal document.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42209956]Don't bother, katbug somehow can't perceive the idea of adding an extra field to a legal document.[/QUOTE] I can, but I'm being realistic. If you'd stop being a cunt for two seconds you'd realize that, not to mention the fact that the idea of a document change was only JUST brought up. They aren't going to overhaul a process for something that is 100% entirely inconsequential. The only people who these actually matter to are the doctors.

[QUOTE=katbug;42209988]I can, but I'm being realistic. If you'd stop being a cunt for two seconds you'd realize that, not to mention the fact that the idea of a document change was only JUST brought up. They aren't going to overhaul a process for something that is 100% entirely inconsequential. The only people who these actually matter to are the doctors.[/QUOTE] Obviously it matters to someone more than just doctors, I mean its right there in the thread OP.

[QUOTE=Valnar;42209944]Then you add a field called "birthing parent" and put the birthing parent's name in it.[/QUOTE] It already has a field for the birthing parent. It's called a mother.

god fuck if one more person pulls the "WHY DO YOU CARE" card i'm gonna bust a nut why the fuck would you even discuss anything in a fucking news subforum when none of it at all affects you? people dying in syria? DOESN'T AFFECT US. asian dudes doin' a lot of rape in asia? DOESN'T AFFECT US. half the fucking things in this fucking subforum don't affect us, yet we still discuss them just, god damn, fuck me. what the fuck are we meant to discuss in this topic if we can't say anything because IT DOESN'T AFFECT US HURP A FUCKING DURP remember guys you can only have an opinion on things that personally affect you!

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;42210050]god fuck if one more person pulls the "WHY DO YOU CARE" card i'm gonna bust a nut why the fuck would you even discuss anything in a fucking news subforum when none of it at all affects you? people dying in syria? DOESN'T AFFECT US. asian dudes doin' a lot of rape in asia? DOESN'T AFFECT US. half the fucking things in this fucking subforum don't affect us, yet we still discuss them just, god damn, fuck me. what the fuck are we meant to discuss in this topic if we can't say anything because IT DOESN'T AFFECT US HURP A FUCKING DURP remember guys you can only have an opinion on things that personally affect you![/QUOTE] I think you are misunderstanding why people are asking "why do you care". It has to do with people reacting negatively to something that shouldn't be reacted negatively too. Take for example gay marriage, that is an issue I am willing to guess that most people on this forum look favorably to. Now you might ask an opponent to gay marriage: why are you against it? It doesn't affect you or society, why do you care if two gay people get married? It is a legitimate question to ask because it gets the person to think of why exactly they are against the issue, away from some nebulous idea into something concrete. Likewise with this transgender issue, it is important to ask: Why do you care so negatively that a person who birthed their child wants to be considered the father?

birth certificates exist for a reason. not knowing what those reasons are is no cause to dub them useless. biological mother is simply slang for "egg donor". biological father is simply slang for "sperm donor". if a person produces eggs, they are an egg donor. if a person undergoes surgery to produce sperm, they become a sperm donor. I can't imagine why people would make such a big deal of this, and those who use the "it doesn't matter anyway" argument should realize that their logic is a double-edged sword. he can identify as whatever he wants, but he is an egg donor and thus should be recorded as such. even if he undergoes surgery in the future to become a sperm donor, he was still the egg donor for his child's birth. I cannot fathom why this is a complicated concept to some and insulting to others.

[QUOTE=fulgrim;42160662]oh just let him put what he wants on the certificate- seriously who is this going to adversely affect?[/QUOTE] Why doesn't (s)he just drop it for that very same reason? Why is it really worth all this trouble when it doesn't affect anything at all?

[QUOTE=LSK;42210877]Why doesn't (s)he just drop it for that very same reason? Why is it really worth all this trouble when it doesn't affect anything at all?[/QUOTE] BUT IT'LL MAKE HIM FEEEEEEEL GOOOOOOOOD AND THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD MAKE EACH AND EVERY CITIZEN HAVE A LOVELY DAY

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;42211021]BUT IT'LL MAKE HIM FEEEEEEEL GOOOOOOOOD AND THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD MAKE EACH AND EVERY CITIZEN HAVE A LOVELY DAY[/QUOTE] bingo.

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;42211021]BUT IT'LL MAKE HIM FEEEEEEEL GOOOOOOOOD AND THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD MAKE EACH AND EVERY CITIZEN HAVE A LOVELY DAY[/QUOTE] basically yes [editline]16th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=LSK;42210877]Why doesn't (s)he just drop it for that very same reason? Why is it really worth all this trouble when it doesn't affect anything at all?[/QUOTE] because he doesn't feel comfortable being named as the mother on the birth certificate. it affects him. it doesn't affect you, or anyone else.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42211058]because he doesn't feel comfortable being named as the mother on the birth certificate. it affects him. it doesn't affect you, or anyone else.[/QUOTE] Hey, gj pulling the "why do you care" card. [editline]16th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Valnar;42210117]Likewise with this transgender issue, it is important to ask: Why do you care so negatively that a person who birthed their child wants to be considered the father?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=isnipeu;42162861]The point of a birth certificate is to document a child's birth and include who is the biological mother and father, just because he's become a male doesn't mean that he shouldn't be listed as the biological mother.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=isnipeu;42211149]Hey, gj pulling the "why do you care" card. [editline]16th September 2013[/editline][/QUOTE] that was just in response to that one person claiming it affects noone, when it does affect someone it affects the man who wants to be known as the father on the birth certificate. of what actual need is it that it says biological mother and father? clearly it's not so crucial since the government is allowing him to be listed as the father

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42211263]that was just in response to that one person claiming it affects noone, when it does affect someone it affects the man who wants to be known as the father on the birth certificate. of what actual need is it that it says biological mother and father? clearly it's not so crucial since the government is allowing him to be listed as the father[/QUOTE] I don't agree with him being listed as the father on the birth certificate so there's that.

[QUOTE=mobrockers;42211315]I don't agree with him being listed as the father on the birth certificate so there's that.[/QUOTE] i don't see why. it doesn't affect you in any way and it will make someone else happy. why would you disagree with that? [editline]16th September 2013[/editline] one day people like you guys are gonna be just as ridiculed and despised as homophobes and anti-gay marriage people. there's really nothing more pathetic than imposing unhappiness on someone else over something that literally can't affect you in anyway other than your idiotic values

[QUOTE=mobrockers;42211315]I don't agree with him being listed as the father on the birth certificate so there's that.[/QUOTE] this is what it comes down to, you disagree with it for no reason, it makes absolutely no sense to try and label a man as a mother

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42211330]i don't see why. it doesn't affect you in any way and it will make someone else happy. why would you disagree with that?[/QUOTE] But that's what the certificate requires you to put down, just because you think it should work differently doesn't mean you can just do it that way and expect it to be accepted. [editline]16th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Shadaez;42211345]this is what it comes down to, you disagree with it for no reason, it makes absolutely no sense to try and label a man as a mother[/QUOTE] But he's the biological mother, which is what a birth certificate records. [editline]16th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Lachz0r;42211330]one day people like you guys are gonna be just as ridiculed and despised as homophobes and anti-gay marriage people. there's really nothing more pathetic than imposing unhappiness on someone else over something that literally can't affect you in anyway other than your idiotic values[/QUOTE] What, why would you think I'm a homophobe? I have nothing against homosexuals/biosexuals/transgenders.

[QUOTE=isnipeu;42211363]But that's what the certificate requires you to put down, just because you think it should work differently doesn't mean you can just do it that way and expect it to be accepted. [editline]16th September 2013[/editline] But he's the biological mother, which is what a birth certificate records.[/QUOTE] he's the biological father though, and where are you finding this information on what a german birth certificate is meant to record, and how it defines those terms? honestly just seems like you're being transphobic to me. They allowed it anyways, so obviously you're wrong here.

[QUOTE=isnipeu;42211363] What, why would you think I'm a homophobe? I have nothing against homosexuals/biosexuals/transgenders.[/QUOTE] They think that you are against everything they stand for simply because you have one opinion about something that differs from theirs.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;42211386]honestly just seems like you're being transphobic to me. They allowed it anyways, so obviously you're wrong here.[/QUOTE] Just because I disagree with your opinion on this doesn't mean I'm a transphobic.

[QUOTE=isnipeu;42211524]Just because I disagree with your opinion on this doesn't mean I'm a transphobic.[/QUOTE] Calling a trans* man a gendered noun for a woman is transphobic.

finding it confusing that a biological woman who wants to be a man would give birth to a child is also transphobic as is wanting a birth certificate to list biological parents you all better check your privileges

[QUOTE=Shadaez;42211530]Calling a trans* man a gendered noun for a woman is transphobic.[/QUOTE] When I said that he is the biological mother I meant that he was the one who gave birth to the baby, because "biological" refers to sex not gender.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42211330] one day people like you guys are gonna be just as ridiculed and despised as homophobes and anti-gay marriage people. there's really nothing more pathetic than imposing unhappiness on someone else over something that literally can't affect you in anyway other than your idiotic values[/QUOTE] thank god that day isn't going to be anytime soon :) edit: i feel the need to clarify, while i feel that people should all be treated equally, i still feel like the way people like lachz0r go about trying to encourage this is just douchey. like, fuck dude, you're annoying me and i fucking agree with you. tumblr does this to me as well

[QUOTE=isnipeu;42211363]What, why would you think I'm a homophobe? I have nothing against homosexuals/biosexuals/transgenders.[/QUOTE] read my post, i said just as ridiculed and despised as homophobes, not that you're a homophobe jeez [editline]16th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=PSI Guy;42211580]finding it confusing that a biological woman who wants to be a man would give birth to a child is also transphobic as is wanting a birth certificate to list biological parents you all better check your privileges[/QUOTE] you want something that has nothing to do with you and will cause someone else unhappiness [editline]16th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=PSI Guy;42211598]thank god that day isn't going to be anytime soon :) edit: i feel the need to clarify, while i feel that people should all be treated equally, i still feel like the way people like lachz0r go about trying to encourage this is just douchey. like, fuck dude, you're annoying me and i fucking agree with you. tumblr does this to me as well[/QUOTE] like i care if i'm annoying you 'CHECK UR PRIVILEGE HUR HUR HUR'

ex-fucking-actly, people like you make good viewpoints appear unattractive and that only hurts your goal of helping others achieve equality it's like, how do you fuck up selling the idea that people should be treated equally? by acting like lachz0r of course.

people that don't treat others equally, and will continue to do so because they're not respected for that don't deserve my respect and won't get it.