Transgender man gives birth in Germany, fights for the right to be called the father. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=bdd458;42161145]If you're the father or mother is entirely dependent on your role in conception. Not what you feel it you are.[/QUOTE] mother and father are literally just gender-specific names in relation to their children in a lesbian relationship are the two women not allowed to both be mothers?

[QUOTE=MisterMooth;42161253]mother and father are literally just gender-specific names in relation to their children in a lesbian relationship are the two women not allowed to both be mothers?[/QUOTE] not on a birth certificate!!

On one hand I feel like the biological specifics of it should be recorded somewhere; but on the other hand it's not THAT important and would give an individual a great deal of peace of mind.

I'm all for Transgender rights (I'm part of the LGBT circle myself, being Gay) and I fully understand why he wishes to be called the Father, but.. this is a bit of a murky area all around. Most Transgender males wouldn't really be giving birth to begin with, that alone is kind of an oddity.. When you're Transgendered the entire thing is that you're working to become the gender you are inside, thus leaving behind whatever notions or expectations there are of the sex you were born as.. so.. setting this up and intentionally having a child this way is a bit unexpected, and certainly unique all its own. I've never heard of a case like this, ever. Thus it certainly adds to a lot of confusion when you try to deal with it legally. I do hope he works this out in a way that makes him happy, but I certainly see why this is confusing on the legal end of things..

i'm pretty sure it's for records, and i'm all about transgender rights but recording that he was the biological mother is unbiased and i'm all for accurate records there are mother inherited traits and diseases that can be passed down and all too and it'd just be better to know in the first place

[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;42161384]i'm pretty sure it's for records, and i'm all about transgender rights but recording that he was the biological mother is unbiased and i'm all for accurate records there are mother inherited traits and diseases that can be passed down and all too and it'd just be better to know in the first place[/QUOTE] these things can be passed down from both parents so I don't see why it makes a difference if he's referred to as the father instead of the mother

[QUOTE=MisterMooth;42161411]these things can be passed down from both parents so I don't see why it makes a difference if he's referred to as the father instead of the mother[/QUOTE] because depending on what type of hereditary disease it is, its either a mother based disease or a father based it affects medical history and all that jazz

[QUOTE=MisterMooth;42161411]these things can be passed down from both parents [/QUOTE] they can which is why they need to be marked down there are things passed down specifically from the mother and from the father which is important to know

I'm sorry but it's not normal to call the person who gave birth to the kid it's father. That's not acceptable

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;42161432]because depending on what type of hereditary disease it is, its either a mother based disease or a father based it affects medical history and all that jazz[/QUOTE] So then you list in the certificate who birthed the child. [QUOTE=ionuttzu;42161454]I'm sorry but it's not normal to call the person who gave birth to the kid it's father. That's not acceptable[/QUOTE] why is it unacceptable? cause it is different from our norm?

[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;42161436]they can which is why they need to be marked down there are things passed down specifically from the mother and from the father which is important to know[/QUOTE] I'm sure there are ways of recording this without bringing gender into it germany recently added a third gender option on their birth certificates so I don't see why this is such a big deal

[QUOTE=ionuttzu;42161454]I'm sorry but it's not normal to call the person who gave birth to the kid it's father. That's not acceptable[/QUOTE] There's nothing unacceptable about him being called the father. The only question in all of this is how it is handled legally, which is obviously a bit of a mess considering the circumstances. I feel bad for him really..

[QUOTE=MisterMooth;42161495]I'm sure there are ways of recording this without bringing gender into it germany recently added a third gender option on their birth certificates so I don't see why this is such a big deal[/QUOTE]I did not know this. Out of curiosity, what is the third option titled/used for legally?

[QUOTE=MisterMooth;42161495]I'm sure there are ways of recording this without bringing gender into it germany recently added a third gender option on their birth certificates so I don't see why this is such a big deal[/QUOTE] How does a 1 day old child know what gender it is? I'm being completely serious.

[QUOTE=Pennywise;42161545]I did not know this. Out of curiosity, what is the third option titled/used for legally?[/QUOTE] undetermined iirc its only supposed to be used in cases of ambiguous genitalia [editline]11th September 2013[/editline] also technically speaking its a third sex option because its identifying the penis or vagina not its gender!!

[QUOTE=ionuttzu;42161454]I'm sorry but it's not normal to call the person who gave birth to the kid it's father. That's not acceptable[/QUOTE] um, why? it's just a gender-specific version of "parent" he fully identifies as a man so why should his child refer to him as mom

Barring this even for medical history stuff when the kid goes to fill out a form they'll still have to fill out their father's medical history under mother's because again hereditary conditions vary whether they ride with the X chromosome or ride in mDNA [editline]11th September 2013[/editline] apparently this is all irrelevant because they gave him the father certificate according to a linked article within, but germany is still running this through court anyways, at least medically the uterus holder should be recorded somewhere, no matter the gender of the uterus holder

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;42161581] anyways, at least medically the uterus holder should be recorded somewhere, no matter the gender of the uterus holder[/QUOTE] Thats why I said in response to you last page that the certificate could just include an extra field identifying which of the parents is the birthing parent.

[QUOTE=Valnar;42161636]Thats why I said in response to you last page that the certificate could just include an extra field identifying which of the parents is the birthing parent.[/QUOTE] so you would write: biological mother/father, biological father/father for both?

Wants to be father in the [I]legal[/I] sense, fine [I]Biologically[/I] though he's the mother, there's no denying that in any way The question is do we officially go with a legal definition or go with the medical take I say legal but there's unfortunately no escaping the fact he's the mother, and that on the child's medical documents he'll have to go under mother due to chromosomal disorders and such Quite the case! [QUOTE=Valnar;42161636]Thats why I said in response to you last page that the certificate could just include an extra field identifying which of the parents is the birthing parent.[/QUOTE] That's actually not a bad idea

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;42161658]so you would write: biological mother/father, biological father/father for both?[/QUOTE] You could have something like this Father: person a (info here) Father: person b (info here) Birthing parent: person a. (no more info here cause its already listed) Or if you really just wanted to leave gender out, you could say parent 1 and parent 2.

[QUOTE=Valnar;42161725]You could have something like this Father: person a (info here) Father: person b (info here) Birthing parent: person a. (no more info here cause its already listed)[/QUOTE] except if you got really complex transgender situation the semen parent and birthing parent are opposite I imagine all of the medical chart software only supports mother and father.

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;42161734]except if you got really complex transgender situation the semen parent and birthing parent are opposite I imagine all of the medical chart software only supports mother and father.[/QUOTE] So then the record keeping changes with the times.

[QUOTE=Paramud;42161052]Adopted children still have birth certificates listing their biological parents.[/QUOTE] I don't, the country i was born in took no records at the time

[QUOTE=noneshallpass;42161846]I don't, the country i was born in took no records at the time[/QUOTE] In which case your country also has no issues with listing parents on the birth certificates since they didn't have any.

[URL]http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/father[verb][/URL] [URL]http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/mother[verb][/URL] He did not father the child, he mothered them. That is the first time I have actually had to use the word mothered in this sense.

[QUOTE=Paramud;42161887]In which case your country also has no issues with listing parents on the birth certificates since they didn't have any.[/QUOTE] Ah i see the situation i'm in gave the inpression that most countries didn't really give a shit

[QUOTE=deadoon;42161898][URL]http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/father[verb][/URL] [URL]http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/mother[verb][/URL] He did not father the child, he mothered them. That is the first time I have actually had to use the word mothered in this sense.[/QUOTE] You are really missing the point. We all know the definition of mothering. The question is, why does it really matter on the birth certificate.

So let me get this straight: this person has gender identity issues and wants to be considered a man. They then get a sperm donation and give birth to a child, and want to be listed as the biological father...? I think the problem here extends past gender identity, and they may need help.

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;42162059]So let me get this straight: this person has gender identity issues and wants to be considered a man. They then get a sperm donation and give birth to a child, and want to be listed as the biological father...? I think the problem here extends past gender identity, and they may need help.[/QUOTE] Because of course gender must be so clear-cut. How dare someone take on roles from both genders! Humans are complex. To simplify us is naive. What's the harm here really?