Transgender man gives birth in Germany, fights for the right to be called the father. - Polidicks

if someone wants me to call them a lizard i dont care ill call you a lizard you crazy fuck

[QUOTE=thisispain;42163023]if someone wants me to call them a lizard i dont care ill call you a lizard you crazy fuck[/QUOTE] call me lizardandcooki from now on

[QUOTE=Shadaez;42162955]but he is a male who is raising a child... also your beliefs don't come before human rights.[/QUOTE] He is a man raising a child. Male is sex, man is gender. You are purposefully misinterpreting him to try and make a point. Fathering a child is being the part which provides the sperm, to mother a child is the part in which you give birth to the child. Do you purposely ignore posts that disagree with you or you cannot counteract?

Is the sperm donor not recorded or what? Wouldn't he be the father on the birth certificate?

[QUOTE=MuTAnT;42163098]Is the sperm donor not recorded or what? Wouldn't he be the father on the birth certificate?[/QUOTE] Sperm donors can have contracts that prevent them from being identified outside of criminal investigation from what I remember.

[QUOTE=deadoon;42163090]He is a man raising a child. Male is sex, man is gender. You are purposefully misinterpreting him to try and make a point. Fathering a child is being the part which provides the sperm, to mother a child is the part in which you give birth to the child. Do you purposely ignore posts that disagree with you or you cannot counteract?[/QUOTE] nah i just avoid the outstandingly transphobic posts

There's one thing I don't really understand [QUOTE]The unnamed parent, who has undergone several hormone treatments but still has female reproductive organs, used a sperm donor to become pregnant.[/QUOTE] If you feel like you are the other gender, why would you want to give birth to a child? Doesn't that, in a way, defeat the purpose of going through surgery?

us cis scum will never understand

[QUOTE=Shadaez;42163116]nah i just avoid the outstandingly transphobic posts[/QUOTE] So why would you call someone who mothered a child the father, when they did not father them? Why call someone a father when they did not father? Please answer this.

[QUOTE=deadoon;42163133]So why would you call someone who mothered a child the father, when they did not father them? Why call someone a father when they did not father? Please answer this.[/QUOTE]Because it is needlessly pedantic for the sake of being ignorant to not refer to them as they identify.

[QUOTE=deadoon;42163133]So why would you call someone who mothered a child the father, when they did not father them? Why call someone a father when they did not father? Please answer this.[/QUOTE] Because I'm not a jackass!

[QUOTE=deadoon;42163133]So why would you call someone who mothered a child the father, when they did not father them? Why call someone a father when they did not father? Please answer this.[/QUOTE] because i dont care i dont know why any of fp would be emotionally invested in this but it is literally of no consequence to me its none of your business either if the guy wants to be father, who cares no-one except kids on the internet who view themselves as a defense against the tide of transgenderism or something stupid like that lets be honest about our motives here

[QUOTE=Shadaez;42163145]Because I'm not a jackass![/QUOTE] If they were to make the documents more specific by specifying biological father and biological mother, would you be appeased? Also you did not explain why you would call someone something they are not. If someone wanted to be called "The king of the world" and gave no reason why he should be with logic why should you? Also it's called hyperbole if you forgot. [QUOTE=thisispain;42163159]because i dont care i dont know why any of fp would be emotionally invested in this but it is literally of no consequence to me its none of your business either if the guy wants to be father, who cares no-one except kids on the internet who view themselves as a defense against the tide of transgenderism or something stupid like that lets be honest about our motives here[/QUOTE] Yay directed insults! Seriously? I want the birth certificate to be as accurate as possible the one who gave birth to the child should be in the mother spot, interpret that how you will, but biologically that is where they go, they mothered the child. [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42163144]Because it is needlessly pedantic for the sake of being ignorant to not refer to them as they identify.[/QUOTE] How often do you directly refer to someone as a father or mother, and likely without outside knowledge and even in normal settings I would refer to them as the father, just for legal purposes they are the mother.

[QUOTE=deadoon;42163169] Seriously? I want the birth certificate to be as accurate as possible[/QUOTE] why? why do you care about the accuracy of the birth certificate, i sure as hell don't and would like to know why the accuracy of this german citizen's birth certificate is any of your business

[QUOTE=thisispain;42163185]why? why do you care about the accuracy of the birth certificate, i sure as hell don't and would like to know why the accuracy of this german citizen's birth certificate is any of your business[/QUOTE] It's a legal document allowing people to put whatever they want on it will make it less effective and more unreliable.

[QUOTE=deadoon;42163169]If they were to make the documents more specific by specifying biological father and biological mother, would you be appeased? Also you did not explain why you would call someone something they are not.[/QUOTE] This is what YOU are doing, not me. This man has a child and he is the father of it. Your definition of father and motherhood is absolutely obsolete and transphobic. Mother and Father are simply gendered nouns to describe parents, if it would make you happy I don't think anyone would mind simply having the document list Sperm donor and Egg donor since these things can literally come from either gender, and it's possible for them to come from either sex as well, and a birther option too I guess, since surrogacy is a thing. Also, since surrogacy is a thing, this completely violates your entire concept of mother being the one who conceives a child. Why are you going out of your way to be a bigot?

[QUOTE=deadoon;42163191]It's a legal document allowing people to put whatever they want on it will make it less effective and more unreliable.[/QUOTE] why do you care about arbitrary and metaphorical effectiveness get to the root of my question, please. under what pretext do you find yourself in the position to make a statement about the "effectiveness" and "reliability" of someone's birth certificate. what is wrong about this when for all intents and purposes (that either the state or YOU could deem as legitimate reasoning for viewing the birth certificate) he is the father to his child? is it because it doesn't register as "correct" in your view? are you really so arrogant as to imprint your righteousness upon someone else's birth certificate? because i'd find that contemptible. maybe youd want to be in charge of a bureau of birth certificate effectiveness and reliability since this seems to be an issue that just burns you up.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;42163204]This is what YOU are doing, not me. This man has a child and he is the father of it. Your definition of father and motherhood is absolutely obsolete and transphobic. Mother and Father are simply gendered nouns to describe parents, if it would make you happy I don't think anyone would mind simply having the document list Sperm donor and Egg donor since these things can literally come from either gender, and it's possible for them to come from either sex as well, and a birther option too I guess, since surrogacy is a thing. Also, since surrogacy is a thing, this completely violates your entire concept of mother being the one who conceives a child. Why are you going out of your way to be a bigot?[/QUOTE] you never cease to make me laugh, keep at it also everyone should just evacuate the thread, the privilege police are here and aren't leaving

[QUOTE=deadoon;42163169]Seriously? I want the birth certificate to be as accurate as possible the one who gave birth to the child should be in the mother spot, interpret that how you will, but biologically that is where they go, they mothered the child. [/QUOTE] You're really going out of your way here, if you wanted it to be as accurate as possible you wouldn't be listing a man as a mother, nor the one who conceives the child as the mother. There's so many options where these things just aren't the case.

[QUOTE=Pelican;42163217]you never cease to make me laugh, keep at it also everyone should just evacuate the thread, the privilege police are here and aren't leaving[/QUOTE] i think i raise valid points, if you want to evacuate then go ahead no-one will miss you

[QUOTE=Shadaez;42163204]This is what YOU are doing, not me. This man has a child and he is the father of it. Your definition of father and motherhood is absolutely obsolete and transphobic. Mother and Father are simply gendered nouns to describe parents, if it would make you happy I don't think anyone would mind simply having the document list Sperm donor and Egg donor since these things can literally come from either gender, and it's possible for them to come from either sex as well, and a birther option too I guess, since surrogacy is a thing. Also, since surrogacy is a thing, this completely violates your entire concept of mother being the one who conceives a child. Why are you going out of your way to be a bigot?[/QUOTE] Wat. Seriously? I had at no point did I say someone who is female cannot be the father. Also Mother and father I am using often as VERBS not nouns. [QUOTE=deadoon;42161898][URL]http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/father[/URL][verb] [URL]http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/mother[/URL][verb] He did not father the child, he mothered them. That is the first time I have actually had to use the word mothered in this sense.[/QUOTE] Also you did not say anything about if biological father and mother would be acceptable. [QUOTE=thisispain;42163214]why do you care about arbitrary and metaphorical effectiveness get to the root of my question, please. under what pretext do you find yourself in the position to make a statement about the "effectiveness" and "reliability" of someone's birth certificate. what is wrong about this when for all intents and purposes (that either the state or YOU could deem as legitimate reasoning for viewing the birth certificate) he is the father to his child? is it because it doesn't register as "correct" in your view? are you really so arrogant as to imprint your righteousness upon someone else's birth certificate? because i'd find that contemptible. maybe youd want to be in charge of a bureau of birth certificate effectiveness and reliability since this seems to be an issue that just burns you up.[/QUOTE] Effectiveness: Long term value and understandability. Reliability: How accurate the information is. Legitimate reasons; family history and lineage for future reference. He is the mother due to he gave birth to the child. The person which was the sperm donor is the biological father, which is what the other half is.

[QUOTE=thisispain;42163232]i think i raise valid points, if you want to evacuate then go ahead no-one will miss you[/QUOTE] ouch, no need to get personal

Don't even care. Birthing is a mother/female thing unless you're some horrible amphibian/insect that has a chestburster thing going on.

[QUOTE=Pelican;42163241]ouch, no need to get personal[/QUOTE] youre not worth getting personal with evacuate and leave everyone else alone tia

Why can't we just be men and women without mixing the two up?

[QUOTE=thisispain;42163252]youre not worth getting personal with evacuate and leave everyone else alone tia[/QUOTE] gee wiz you sure are aggressive also i think people would rather get personal with a normal person than a gigafeminist, soz [QUOTE=Bat-shit;42163254]Why can't we just be men and women without mixing the two up?[/QUOTE] because some people are a bit strange

[QUOTE=deadoon;42163235]Wat. Seriously? I had at no point did I say someone who is female cannot be the father. Also Mother and father I am using often as VERBS not nouns.[/QUOTE] are you going to rebut anything? If a cis man has an egg created with his genetics, and another cis man provides the sperm and they are put into a surrogate womans uterus, who is the mother? Why?

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;42163254]Why can't we just be men and women without mixing the two up?[/QUOTE] because men and women are arbitrary terms and you can't fit everyone into neat categories

[QUOTE=Pelican;42163256]gee wiz you sure are aggressive also i think people would rather get personal with a normal person than a gigafeminist, soz[/QUOTE]What the hell is a gigafeminist? Is it going to be fighting Mecha-Godzilla? That'd be pretty awesome I think. Also, you're a horrible bigot, you deserve neither respect nor credence. So just stop. [editline]12th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Bat-shit;42163254]Why can't we just be men and women without mixing the two up?[/QUOTE]Because you follow an outdated an uninformed view of people.

[QUOTE=Pelican;42163256]gee wiz you sure are aggressive also i think people would rather get personal with a normal person than a gigafeminist, soz [/QUOTE] coming from a person who cant even stop posting in a thread after telling people to evacuate at least im honest about being a "giga" feminist, its no slur to me and im not aggressive, i just have to be clear with children