LA CBS news crew attacked by Trayvon Martin protestors
214 replies, posted
[QUOTE=yawmwen;41488548]People in those revolutions weren't "organized" in the sense that i was talking about. social media has made most of the trayvon martin protests possible and easily accessible for people. still, there is a difference between showing up at a park with a bunch of strangers to march through the streets than it is to actually go to meetings, participate in workshops, learn protest/riot tactics, and create working relationships with other activists. those who are "organized" into actual political groups will have an easier time dealing with issues like random violence simply because they are prepared for it, have experienced it, and have a relationship with the people at their shoulders.[/QUOTE]
And what exactly is keeping these people from being organised enough ? Communication surely isn't an issue.
Besides, I don't think you have to train a whole army in order to conduct successful protests. You can always organise yourself in such a manner that the situation is optimal. In a sit-in, for example, you can put more experienced people in front, since they are the most likely to get hit if repression comes around.
A strong leader helps too, I guess. The goal is to direct people's rage into staying put and being determined, instead of displaying it in violent outbursts like it is the case here. Surely if they are commited enough to the cause to give punches, they are commited enough to take them.
[QUOTE=PonceDeLeon;41488748]There may be white rioters, there may not be many at all. But that's besides the whole point.
They've been called apes because they were simply acting exactly like an ape would.[/QUOTE]
We do know most of the rioters are poc; the ones in that video are pretty much exclusively poc. And cases in the past where rioters are poc have had observers call the rioters "monkeys" or "apes," but never white rioters.
Also, to run parallel with that - I decided to ask a few poc friends how they felt about describing rioters as "apes". They still thought it was pretty offensive. You should replicate the description with your poc friends too, just to double check in case I'm suggesting bias :v:.
[QUOTE=PonceDeLeon;41488748]There may be white rioters, there may not be many at all. But that's besides the whole point.
They've been called apes because they were simply acting exactly like an ape would.[/QUOTE]
I think the issue is that you rarely see white rioters being called apes.
Hell, remember that image from back during Katrina where black looters were called looters, while white looters were said to be "scavenging for supplies"? Different words are used in common vernacular to describe the same actions when performed by people of difference races. It's pretty cut and dry racism, and the odd exception only serves to prove the rule by being an [i]exception[/i]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;41488742]like i said, it's pretty insensitive to refer to someone who has likely been treated as sub-human or a second-class citizen an animal, especially when that comparison has been used to justify a very brutal oppression of that person's racial group.[/QUOTE]
Surely calling them assholes isn't much more glorifying ? I'd rather be an ape than a litteral asshole.
Oh god that Chimpout site is gonna enjoy this
[QUOTE=yawmwen;41488762]it doesn't even matter if he could because whites have never, as a group, had to deal with being treated as sub-human. we don't have a history of being legally property, or having our homeland brutally exploited. calling me an ape is not the same as calling a black person as an ape because i have never been referred to or treated as an ape based on my skin color before.[/QUOTE]
True, but I also think the "ape" and "monkey" comments might be a form of internalized racism.
Past cases where people of color are called sub-human for their actions seems pretty common, whereas white rioters are rarely compared to monkeys or apes. If ever.
You're definitely right though. We don't have that history behind us. It's racially insensitive to refer to people of color as sub-humans, period.
[editline]17th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=_Axel;41488790]Surely calling them assholes isn't much more glorifying ? I'd rather be an ape than a litteral asshole.[/QUOTE]
Using the term "ape" suggests that these peoples' actions are rooted in their "inferior" skin color. It's suggesting that their race is the negative trait at hand.
An asshole has no racial bias. Anyone is an asshole. There is no social context where "assholes" was a name reserved for people of color. It's not a nice word, but, also, it's not racially charged.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41488771]We do know most of the rioters are poc; the ones in that video are pretty much exclusively poc. And cases in the past where rioters are poc have had observers call the rioters "monkeys" or "apes," but never white rioters.
Also, to run parallel with that - I decided to ask a few poc friends how they felt about describing rioters as "apes". They still thought it was pretty offensive. You should replicate the description with your poc friends too, just to double check in case I'm suggesting bias :v:.[/QUOTE]
I guess we just have different viewpoints. The first thing that comes to mind when I see protesting such as in the video, is just uncivil, wild, along the lines of that.
I'm sure another word would've been used, it just doesn't come off as offensive to me when using it to describe their behavior.
[editline]22[/editline]
I'm just gonna assume the term 'ape' was tossed out because it's just the first thing that comes to mind.
[QUOTE=_Axel;41488768]And what exactly is keeping these people from being organised enough ? Communication surely isn't an issue.
Besides, I don't think you have to train a whole army in order to conduct successful protests. You can always organise yourself in such a manner that the situation is optimal. In a sit-in, for example, you can put more experienced people in front, since they are the most likely to get hit if repression comes around.
A strong leader helps too, I guess. The goal is to direct people's rage into staying put and being determined, instead of displaying it in violent outbursts like it is the case here. Surely if they are commited enough to the cause to give punches, they are commited enough to take them.[/QUOTE]
because these protests aren't really organized except a meeting spot. how do you get 300-400 people who have never met before to agree on who should be in the vanguard of the protest? how do you organize hundreds of people to create observation teams, medical teams, and trash clearing teams? how do you teach everyone who has no protest experience how to identify and deal with police agents that might be trying to incite violence to justify a dispersion?
protests that involve people who know each other, and are done within an organization or coalition of organizations tend to be more peaceful and tend to achieve more objectives. when you got hundreds or thousands of angry people who don't know each other and have never protested you can't be surprised when it sometimes turns to random rioting.
[editline]17th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=_Axel;41488790]Surely calling them assholes isn't much more glorifying ? I'd rather be an ape than a litteral asshole.[/QUOTE]
why don't you go ask a couple black people whether they would be ok with all these black rioters being referred to as apes?
[QUOTE=Reimu;41488800]Using the term "ape" suggests that these peoples' actions are rooted in their "inferior" skin color. It's suggesting that their race is the negative trait at hand.
An asshole has no racial bias. Anyone is an asshole. There is no social context where "assholes" was a name reserved for people of color. It's not a nice word, but, also, it's not racially charged.[/QUOTE]
Still, I don't think the people using this term in this thread think their skin color has any influence on their behaviour. This word is loaded because of actually racist people who genuinely believe black people are of inferior wit. If there's anything to fight against, it's that kind of mindset. Arguing over words is secondary and superfluous.
[QUOTE=_Axel;41488866]Still, I don't think the people using this term in this thread think their skin color has any influence on their behaviour. This word is loaded because of actually racist people who genuinely believe black people are of inferior wit. If there's anything to fight against, it's that kind of mindset. Arguing over words is secondary and superfluous.[/QUOTE]
so maybe just be a little more sensitive and not use the word? if it makes people feel oppressed, it's oppressive whether you intended it to be or not.
[QUOTE=_Axel;41488866]Still, I don't think the people using this term in this thread think their skin color has any influence on their behaviour. This word is loaded because of actually racist people who genuinely believe black people are of inferior wit. If there's anything to fight against, it's that kind of mindset. Arguing over words is secondary and superfluous.[/QUOTE]
My POC friends were still offended when I asked them.
Again, you can repeat it with POC that you know and trust. But, even if you didn't mean it with racial connotations, it's still insensitive and offensive.
I could say Zimmerman looks like a little taco cause he's fat and short. It has nothing to do with his Peruvian background - I just like tacos!! - but that's pretty insensitive and disgusting to say. Interestingly enough, there were actually a few anti-Zimmerman folks who did call him a taco. Which, yes, I found offensive.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;41488826]Because these protests aren't really organized except a meeting spot. how do you get 300-400 people who have never met before to agree on who should be in the vanguard of the protest? how do you organize hundreds of people to create observation teams, medical teams, and trash clearing teams? how do you teach everyone who has no protest experience how to identify and deal with police agents that might be trying to incite violence to justify a dispersion?
protests that involve people who know each other, and are done within an organization or coalition of organizations tend to be more peaceful and tend to achieve more objectives. when you got hundreds or thousands of angry people who don't know each other and have never protested you can't be surprised when it sometimes turns to random rioting.[/QUOTE]
Create different pages/sub-events related to volonteers for observation/medical/trash clearing teams, along with some instruction about how they should deal with it ? Syrian rebels used social networks to organize themselves. If military actions can be monitored through it, why can't a protest be ?
Besides, it still doesn't explain how people lacking any of the modern technology managed to pull out such peaceful protests, the most obvious example being the fight for independance in India.
[QUOTE]Why don't you go ask a couple black people whether they would be ok with all these black rioters being referred to as apes?[/QUOTE]
In my country, it isn't really a connoted word. People tell kids they "behave like apes" when they are messing around, usually running around being turbulent or some sort of like-minded activity. It isn't offensive unless you flat-out compare a black man's physical traits to an ape's.
[editline]17th July 2013[/editline]
What is a POC by the way ?
[QUOTE=_Axel;41488987]
[editline]17th July 2013[/editline]
What is a POC by the way ?[/QUOTE]
I believe it's "person of color"
[QUOTE=_Axel;41488987]Create different pages/sub-events related to volonteers for observation/medical/trash clearing teams, along with some instruction about how they should deal with it ? Syrian rebels used social networks to organize themselves. If military actions can be monitored through it, why can't a protest be ?
Besides, it still doesn't explain how people lacking any of the modern technology managed to pull out such peaceful protests, the most obvious example being the fight for independance in India.[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind that there is a major organizational difference between the rebels in Syria and the protesters in Times Square and other areas.
Syrian rebels are literally looking to overthrow their governments. There has been a simmering rage - which has boiled into a justified need to kill - over the past few years. Zimmerman protesters are looking to have their voice peacefully heard after, essentially, a few days/weeks of extreme frustration.
You can't build Rome in a day. Every protest movement starts scatter brained.
Also POC is short for "person of color." It's pretty much a catch-all social justice term for a non-white individual.
Well apparently they have enough simmering rage in them to go out and wreck shit. I don't see much of a difference between the two. Going out and fight at the expense of your life also requires a lot more motivation than going through the hassle of organising sit-ins.
[editline]17th July 2013[/editline]
Even if Romulus killed Remus during the dawn of Rome, a riot isn't a great way of starting a peaceful protest campaign.
[QUOTE=_Axel;41488987]Create different pages/sub-events related to volonteers for observation/medical/trash clearing teams, along with some instruction about how they should deal with it ? Syrian rebels used social networks to organize themselves. If military actions can be monitored through it, why can't a protest be ?
Besides, it still doesn't explain how people lacking any of the modern technology managed to pull out such peaceful protests, the most obvious example being the fight for independance in India.[/QUOTE]
you are asking me to explain every subtlety that goes along with organizing social movements and that isn't particularly useful to anything. people have organized in various ways, different protests have different levels of organization depending on how quickly they are organized(in this case people were organizing and taking to the streets in protest immediately after a court verdict, which limits the organizational potential). it also has to do with how organized and prepared actual organizations are in trying to mobilize people, which depends on the organization obviously.
some of the protests around the country are fairly well organized and mostly peaceful. some are general cries of outrage through the destruction of property.
in the end, though, even if the protests are not properly organized, it will give a lot of people who were previously not active the opportunity to make activist connections, participate in existing organizations, and possibly create a stronger anti-racism movement on the whole.
[editline]17th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=_Axel;41489104]Well apparently they have enough simmering rage in them to go out and wreck shit. I don't see much of a difference between the two. Going out and fight at the expense of your life also requires a lot more motivation than going through the hassle of organising sit-ins.
[editline]17th July 2013[/editline]
Even if Romulus killed Remus during the dawn of Rome, a riot isn't a great way of starting a peaceful protest campaign.[/QUOTE]
the syrian protests were not exceptionally organized until assad fired on protesters and created an imminent need for a ton of people to organize and rebel.
Well then the responsibility of relying the events indiscriminately lies in the media's hands. Not a good thing since all this is basically their fault. Laws should be made against stirring up shit like that.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;41487845]it was the justification used and a big talking point when martin was actually shot. so talking about syg is still valid and part of the overall conversation we should be having, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
it was only a media talking point. nobody who knew what they were talking about said anything about syg
[QUOTE=butre;41489280]it was only a media talking point. nobody who knew what they were talking about said anything about syg[/QUOTE]
syg was the reason zimmerman wasn't arrested at the scene.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41488783]I think the issue is that you rarely see white rioters being called apes.
Hell, remember that image from back during Katrina where black looters were called looters, while white looters were said to be "scavenging for supplies"? Different words are used in common vernacular to describe the same actions when performed by people of difference races. It's pretty cut and dry racism, and the odd exception only serves to prove the rule by being an [i]exception[/i][/QUOTE]
yeah but the white guy had bread while the black guy had a tv
maybe we were looking at something different but I saw something similar in the newspaper back then and it was a black guy with a tv and a white guy with food
[editline]17th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;41489294]syg was the reason zimmerman wasn't arrested at the scene.[/QUOTE]
he was taken into custody immediately and released because it was undeniably self defense.
he was arrested again 6 weeks later because there was such a massive media circus and charged with murder by a different prosecutor.
It's people like this that make people like zimmerman shoot people.
I'm never leaving my house without my trusty handgun.
This stupid shit is just making my blood boil. I'm sorry but what the serious fuck are these people thinking? What are they trying to accomplish in the end? Is this the country I have to come home to in September?
I might as well move my ass to Canada when I'm done with the Army. This country is starting to make me sick to my stomach.
reminds me of the london riots which were prompted by the shooting by police of a guy that had a gun out and was ready to shoot someone - it was pretty obviously perfectly within the law yet it promnpted protests which eventually devolved into massive riots because people were just being opportunistic and using the event as an excuse to riot and steal - I do have issues wioth the verdict in this case but I don't think it's that far from the truth and zimmerman will, and is in the process of, get what's coming to him for being such a fucking idiot
however the sheer volume of posts off you people saying 'LOL IT LOOKS LIKE PLANET OF THE APES LOL AHAAHAHA' or 'WELP, THIS IS WHY I HAVE MY TRUSTY M249 SAW UNDER MY PILLOW TO PROTECT ME FROM THESE FUCKING APES' just makes me want to agree with anything that's not your viewpoint, just because it's easier and more impactful than writing a post that's like 'I agree broadly with what you're saying but I think the way you're saying it and the implied sentiment behind your wording is fucking deplorable and I hope you die in a fire.'
go on rate me dumb
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;41487080]I matched the news footage up with some footage of rise of the planet of the apes and its 1/1. I'd say it's justified to say that they're acting like apes, or at least Andy Serkis in motioncapture.[/QUOTE]
How the fuck are these posts not considered racism?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41493991]How the fuck are these posts not considered racism?[/QUOTE]
I didn't see any mention of race in there. It was describing behaviour not skin colour.
[QUOTE=Snapster;41487121][img]http://puu.sh/3EHeS.gif[/img]
Best part of that video, that guy jumping on top of the car dancing.[/QUOTE]
I would have floored it.
[QUOTE=ZakkShock;41494062]I would have floored it.[/QUOTE]
[h2]yeah I would've killed or maimed several people too! look at me! what a big man I am![/h2]
be quiet
[editline]17th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Thom12255;41494056]I didn't see any mention of race in there. It was describing behaviour not skin colour.[/QUOTE]
you'd have to be functionally retarded to not understand the 'black people = apes' bollocks, I find it very difficult to believe that multiple posters all just arrived on the same metaphor at once
[QUOTE=Generic Monk;41494088]
you'd have to be functionally retarded to not understand the 'black people = apes' bollocks, I find it very difficult to believe that multiple posters all just arrived on the same metaphor at once[/QUOTE]
You mean it is racially charged?
[QUOTE=Thom12255;41494111]You mean it is racially charged?[/QUOTE]
probably not consciously intended to be but it's a very poor choice of words
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