• Stephen Hawking says afterlife is a "fairy story"
    456 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893392]I'm not arguing for an afterlife anymore, so I'm not arguing that consciousness isn't dependent on the brain. Rest assured I've already thought about that, it's one of the bigger holes in the theory of an afterlife.[/QUOTE] So? A theory can't have holes. If it has holes it has to be replaced. Why are you just ignoring this hole? Hole.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29893380]Uhm, we can record people having dreams, we can record the brain waves, the signals sent around the brain, we can monitor rapid eye movement. Does this mean we can see a dream? No. But we KNOW we dream.[/QUOTE] No, what we know is that humans go through a certain state during sleep, connected to when we say we dream. But if you have never dreamed before, no one can convince you that dreams exist, except for the fact that everyone else says they do. Consciousness is the same issue, except that more people aren't aware of their own consciousness for some reason.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893392]I'm not arguing for an afterlife anymore, so I'm not arguing that consciousness isn't dependent on the brain. Rest assured I've already thought about that, it's one of the bigger holes in the theory of an afterlife.[/QUOTE] Okay, but this is irrelevant because we can see BRAIN DAMAGE HURTS YOU. I mean, your argument is smashed down before you bring it up. When someone suffers brain damage, they change. Their personality, their whole persona changes. If a soul is real, but you say isn't in this "reality" then how is it in control of consciousness? How is it being damaged through that?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29893380]Uhm, we can record people having dreams, we can record the brain waves, the signals sent around the brain, we can monitor rapid eye movement. Does this mean we can see a dream? No. But we KNOW we dream.[/QUOTE] No, what we know is that humans go through a certain state during sleep, connected to when we say we dream. But if you have never dreamed before, no one can convince you that dreams exist, except for the fact that everyone else says they do. Consciousness is the same issue, except that more people aren't aware of their own consciousness for some reason.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893392]I'm not arguing for an afterlife anymore, so I'm not arguing that consciousness isn't dependent on the brain. Rest assured I've already thought about that, it's one of the bigger holes in the theory of an afterlife.[/QUOTE] Okay, but this is irrelevant because we can see BRAIN DAMAGE HURTS YOU. I mean, your argument is smashed down before you bring it up. When someone suffers brain damage, they change. Their personality, their whole persona changes. If a soul is real, but you say isn't in this "reality" then how is it in control of consciousness? How is it being damaged through that?
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893435]No, what we know is that humans go through a certain state during sleep, connected to when we say we dream. But if you have never dreamed before, no one can convince you that dreams exist, except for the fact that everyone else says they do. Consciousness is the same issue, except that more people aren't aware of their own consciousness for some reason.[/QUOTE] Believe it or not. Every human being dreams when they sleep whether they remember it or not.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893441]No, what we know is that humans go through a certain state during sleep, connected to when we say we dream. But if you have never dreamed before, no one can convince you that dreams exist, except for the fact that everyone else says they do. Consciousness is the same issue, except that more people aren't aware of their own consciousness for some reason.[/QUOTE] DO YOU HAVE THE FAINTEST CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? I KNOW you're in high school, so wait til you're in college to start thinking about this stuff. I normally tell people to think about it earlier, but you need to develop some more. We KNOW we dream. Why? Because as I said before, all that scientific mumbo jumbo you say means nothing describes the dream state. You don't have to understand this for it to be true. It doesn't seem like it. Anyone who is alive and can converse with you is self aware, self conscious.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29893442]Okay, but this is irrelevant because we can see BRAIN DAMAGE HURTS YOU. I mean, your argument is smashed down before you bring it up. When someone suffers brain damage, they change. Their personality, their whole persona changes. If a soul is real, but you say isn't in this "reality" then how is it in control of consciousness? How is it being damaged through that?[/QUOTE] See, I told you you're misunderstanding me. Your soul isn't in control of your consciousness, it IS your consciousness. It isn't untouchable either. I'm not talking about you existing as some puppeteer in another dimension that your thoughts and behavior are dependent on. [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=AK'z;29893459]Believe it or not. Every human being dreams when they sleep whether they remember it or not.[/QUOTE] You can prove that they go through the same state as others do when they are dreaming, but if they can't remember their dreams, you have no proof that they're dreaming, only that they're showing the same signs others do when they dream.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893481]See, I told you you're misunderstanding me. Your soul isn't in control of your consciousness, it IS your consciousness. It isn't untouchable either. I'm not talking about you existing as some puppeteer in another dimension that your thoughts and behavior are dependent on.[/QUOTE] So are you re branding chemical reactions into a soul, or are you saying that chemical reactions don't control us and that the soul does. pick one cause you're just making no fucking sense. [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893481]See, I told you you're misunderstanding me. Your soul isn't in control of your consciousness, it IS your consciousness. It isn't untouchable either. I'm not talking about you existing as some puppeteer in another dimension that your thoughts and behavior are dependent on.[/QUOTE] So are you re branding chemical reactions into a soul, or are you saying that chemical reactions don't control us and that the soul does. pick one cause you're just making no fucking sense.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893481] You can prove that they go through the same state as others do when they are dreaming, but if they can't remember their dreams, you have no proof that they're dreaming, only that they're showing the same signs others do when they dream.[/QUOTE] Urm.... People not remembering what they did, does not disprove the fact that they did it.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29893522]So are you re branding chemical reactions into a soul, or are you saying that chemical reactions don't control us and that the soul does. pick one cause you're just making no fucking sense. [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] So are you re branding chemical reactions into a soul, or are you saying that chemical reactions don't control us and that the soul does. pick one cause you're just making no fucking sense.[/QUOTE] Do you know what a false dichotomy is? Chemical reactions affect the soul, but that doesn't mean it's all that a soul is.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893565]Do you know what a false dichotomy is? Chemical reactions affect the soul, but that doesn't mean it's all that a soul is.[/QUOTE] When you mean "soul"... you mean the something that doesn't exist in real life?
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893565]Do you know what a false dichotomy is? Chemical reactions affect the soul, but that doesn't mean it's all that a soul is.[/QUOTE] [b]if something affects something else, that effect would be measurable, therefore if a soul exists and interacts with us, there'd be a form of change that would be detectable. It would not be immeasurable as something is changing. Why can't we see the soul pulling on the strings and the brain pulling on the soul?[/b] [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] This is fucking phil 101 shit kid. You debunk this shit on the first day because of how erroneous it is. You're making me relive 3 year old course material.
[QUOTE=AK'z;29893546]Urm.... People not remembering what they did, does not disprove the fact that they did it.[/QUOTE] But if you can't observe them experiencing it (only that they're showing similar bodily signs) you don't know that they're actually experiencing anything like a dream. You can't prove it; the only evidence that they're dreaming is the fact that they're showing similar signs as others do when they're dreaming. But if they can't remember anything, there's no proof of what they experienced on their side. [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29893594][b]if something affects something else, that effect would be measurable, therefore if a soul exists and interacts with us, there'd be a form of change that would be detectable. It would not be immeasurable as something is changing. Why can't we see the soul pulling on the strings and the brain pulling on the soul?[/b] [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] This is fucking phil 101 shit kid. You debunk this shit on the first day because of how erroneous it is. You're making me relive 3 year old course material.[/QUOTE] Once again, you're asserting that a soul has to exist in consensus reality (I. E. be measurable by multiple people) in order for it to be detectable by the owner of the soul.
I don't remember what I had for breakfast this morning. I must not have eaten breakfast this morning. Wait, no, fuck that, I just have a shitty ass memory for stupid things that aren't of any damned value to me. I don't remember what I dreamed last night but that is because of the very nature of dreams, being hard to remember, but also that I just didn't find it important to remember. But I do remember the dream I had Sunday night because I liked that one and wanted to remember it.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893622]But if you can't observe them experiencing it (only that they're showing similar bodily signs) you don't know that they're actually experiencing anything like a dream. You can't prove it; the only evidence that they're dreaming is the fact that they're showing similar signs as others do when they're dreaming. But if they can't remember anything, there's no proof of what they experienced on their side.[/QUOTE] How exactly is someone telling you that they dreamt, "you observing them"? And I do think brain activity would generate a similar pattern or trend while sleeping in people.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893622]But if you can't observe them experiencing it (only that they're showing similar bodily signs) you don't know that they're actually experiencing anything like a dream. You can't prove it; the only evidence that they're dreaming is the fact that they're showing similar signs as others do when they're dreaming. But if they can't remember anything, there's no proof of what they experienced on their side. [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] Once again, you're asserting that a soul has to exist in consensus reality (I. E. be measurable by multiple people) in order for it to be detectable by the owner of the soul.[/QUOTE] Man, that's a relief, now I know my hallucinations are real. Thanks.
[QUOTE=Zeddy;29893671]I don't remember what I had for breakfast this morning. I must not have eaten breakfast this morning. Wait, no, fuck that, I just have a shitty ass memory for stupid things that aren't of any damned value to me. I don't remember what I dreamed last night but that is because of the very nature of dreams, being hard to remember, but also that I just didn't find it important to remember. But I do remember the dream I had Sunday night because I liked that one and wanted to remember it.[/QUOTE] If you don't remember having breakfast this morning, and you don't have any evidence that you had breakfast this morning, how do you know you had breakfast this morning?
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893722]If you don't remember having breakfast this morning, and you don't have any evidence that you had breakfast this morning, how do you know you had breakfast this morning?[/QUOTE] You're retarded.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29893692]Man, that's a relief, now I know my hallucinations are real. Thanks.[/QUOTE] They're real in that you're experiencing them and they're affecting you. They're not real in consensus reality though.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893722]If you don't remember having breakfast this morning, and you don't have any evidence that you had breakfast this morning, how do you know you had breakfast this morning?[/QUOTE] because I poop out breakfast poop
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893722]If you don't remember having breakfast this morning, and you don't have any evidence that you had breakfast this morning, how do you know you had breakfast this morning?[/QUOTE] Someone else saw you eat. You can check to see if what's missing. I mean, fuck, if a tree falls down in a forest does it make sound? This is what your questions amount to. It's seriously debunked in phil 101, your idea is phil 101 fodder. How well do you REALLY think it stands up?
[QUOTE=AK'z;29893739]You're retarded.[/QUOTE] That's not an answer.
What does any of this have to do with Stephen Hawking's comments?
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893759]They're real in that you're experiencing them and they're affecting you. They're not real in consensus reality though.[/QUOTE] You're just assigning everyone a unique reality and calling what they "feel" in that, you feel you have that soul, the same way I can hallucinate shit from time to time, it's no different. You just said so. That doesn't make it anymore real.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29893772]Someone else saw you eat. You can check to see if what's missing.[/QUOTE] Ahem [QUOTE]If you don't remember having breakfast this morning, [B]and you don't have any evidence that you had breakfast this morning[/B], how do you know you had breakfast this morning?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893776]That's not an answer.[/QUOTE] No it's an opinion.
Wow, THIS again? Who the hell cares who other people think? I'm religious, and I have my own beliefs, but it's completely retarded having people fight about it.
[QUOTE=Bot02;29893809]Wow, THIS again? Who the hell cares who other people think? I'm religious, and I have my own beliefs, but it's completely retarded having people fight about it.[/QUOTE] then don't post
[QUOTE=Bot02;29893809]Wow, THIS again? Who the hell cares who other people think? I'm religious, and I have my own beliefs, but it's completely retarded having people fight about it.[/QUOTE] Of course, having beliefs aren't wrong. But the guy talking about dreams and breakfast is deluded.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.