• Stephen Hawking says afterlife is a "fairy story"
    456 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zeddy;29894569]You know what, I know I've got soul, and this is how. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyTifrKB-y0[/media][/QUOTE] :respek:
[QUOTE=AK'z;29894536]I thought we already figured what chemicals are dispursed in death? Apparently a large amount of brain activity occurs which may contain an afterlife of sorts. But I doubt this had much sustainance.[/QUOTE] Even still, that's not an afterlife. That's the end of life, the last dying warcry of a brain before its snuffed out of existence.
how the fuck would he know
[QUOTE=Zeddy;29894635]Even still, that's not an afterlife. That's the end of life, the last dying warcry of a brain before its snuffed out of existence.[/QUOTE] Maybe, but we don't know how long it lasts from the viewpoint of the person in question.
[QUOTE=Zeddy;29894635]Even still, that's not an afterlife. That's the end of life, the last dying warcry of a brain before its snuffed out of existence.[/QUOTE] Can't wait. :3: [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29894666]Maybe, but we don't know how long it lasts from the viewpoint of the person in question.[/QUOTE] I'm fairly sure it's been studied.
[QUOTE=AK'z;29894674]I'm fairly sure it's been studied.[/QUOTE] [CITATION NEEDED]
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29894666]Maybe, but we don't know how long it lasts from the viewpoint of the person in question.[/QUOTE] That really doesn't matter. It isn't infinite because of the rate at which the reaction actually dies off, it could be very long, but it doesn't matter, it's not infinite. It's not an afterlife then really.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29894951]That really doesn't matter. It isn't infinite because of the rate at which the reaction actually dies off, it could be very long, but it doesn't matter, it's not infinite. It's not an afterlife then really.[/QUOTE] What? Who said the afterlife had to be infinite?
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29895030]What? Who said the afterlife had to be infinite?[/QUOTE] Well, it doesn't, but the conventional religious one is out the window, any theistic one is out the window. The only afterlife you'd have is a semblance of an extensive drug trip on accelerated brain function due to the amount of adrenaline pumping through. I don't call that an afterlife, I call that a trip.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29895030]What? Who said the afterlife had to be infinite?[/QUOTE] Its not an afterlife, its an end-of-life. And it'd be very brief. It'd only last as long as the reaction last, then nothing. [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] Perception isn't really an issue either. Ultimately, the brain processes things within a certain very specific range of rates. You might be processing a lot more, but ultimately, its not going to be much different. Its not going to be 50 years, simply because the brain does not work like that.
read this thread in stephen hawkings voice
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29894786][CITATION NEEDED][/QUOTE] [url]http://news.discovery.com/human/near-death-brain.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Sqwerp;29875666]The problem here is that everyone is an idiot, nobody knows the very much of any truth, and those that do can't tell anyone since it is both difficult to know, difficult to understand, and difficult to accept. You do not know anything more than you have experienced, and even then you don't fully understand everything you have experienced since you cannot see from all sides of every situation. No man should claim to know more than they do. Stephen Hawking should not make claims of truth about anything beyond what he has studied scientifically. Science is a progression of understanding of natural phenomena, and is nowhere near complete. He may say "science will win out" and he may be right, because religion doesn't have that same type of progression, but he should not dare say that what is "supernatural" does not exist. There is simply no easy way to study what is "supernatural" since it can hide. Do you think a god would reveal itself to the methods we would use to examine it? Do you think that an omniscient, omnipotent being would not find a way to keep us from knowing if it didn't want us to know about it like that? You cannot bind a being of that variety to any form of "logic" that we use, since who knows what the thought processes of a god are? People tend to assume that when a god is mentioned that it is the one from the Bible, and have all their arguments prepared to debunk that specific god, when what is really the case could be far less nice.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=TheChantzGuy;29894663]how the fuck would he know[/QUOTE] Simple - the exact same way that you know there are no fairies, leprechauns or unicorns. There's no evidence.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29881792]My whole point is that there are some things you know for sure that you CAN'T quantify, that you CAN'T measure, and that you CAN'T prove to anyone else. That's where science fails.[/QUOTE] Ok exactly what is this that you are talking about? WHat cant you prove? And if you cant prove it then its probably not real. Science cant prove ghosts because ghosts dont exist. Is this a fault of science? No its reasonable to not believe in things without proof. You know for sure without any logical reason in something then thats a fail on your part not sciences. [quote]if you can't see it in yourself there's nothing I can do to persuade you.[/quote] Proof would be able to persuade me. Really it seems like you can't really "feel" this soul in you and its just you believing in something so hard to the point were it feels like there is something magical in you. [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29881824]If the trip to the afterlife was one-way, then of course there wouldn't be any proof. Absence of proof is not proof of absence, especially in this case.[/QUOTE] First for the "soul" to be taken out something would have to interact with are universe which could be observed and 2nd its illogical to believe in something without evidence. [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29881889]You can't use Occam's Razor that way. It's like saying nothing exists in space because that's simpler then stuff being there that we just don't know about. [/QUOTE] No its not because we know stuff is out there. We have proof. Unlike your hypothesis. [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29882021]It ends when you sleep, too,[/QUOTE] No it doesn't your brain is still doing stuff when your asleep.
Key has not provided a shred of evidence that consciousness is metaphysical and there is no reason to believe it is until he can. Why are we arguing?
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29896078]Key has not provided a shred of evidence that consciousness is metaphysical and there is no reason to believe it is until he can. Why are we arguing?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29881792]My whole point is that there are some things you know for sure that you CAN'T quantify, that you CAN'T measure, and that you CAN'T prove to anyone else. That's where science fails. I can't prove to you that my sentience isn't just a chemical reaction, but I know for sure it isn't; if you can't see it in yourself there's nothing I can do to persuade you. I know my consciousness, or "soul" exists as surely as I know the world exists, if not more so. Edit: To clarify, I'm not arguing for the existence of the afterlife here, just the existence of the human soul/consciousness.[/QUOTE] Brainlessness
You make an excellent point. That is one of the dumbest things I have read in all my arguments in ITN.
Do you know what is really funny? Which also proves how stupid we are? I mean, even an atheist knows what God is, or is supposed to be, and even science has been trying to find God, but they haven't. Why? Because you wouldn't find God either way, unless he wants to be found. So of course that means he doesn't exist but since we all know it's God we are after, we don't get to schedule the appointment! So wait and see huh? But do we want to spend the time arguing about it? Not me at least. You guys sure as fuck do.
I followed for a few sentences there. Until we got to some strange appointment I was not informed of. [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] Everything I've seen in the world has told me there are no gods and no afterlives. I dunno about you but I don't have forever to wait to find out.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29896451]I followed for a few sentences there. Until we got to some strange appointment I was not informed of. [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] Everything I've seen in the world has told me there are no gods and no afterlives. I dunno about you but I don't have forever to wait to find out.[/QUOTE] That's the tricky part! That's the part where you shut up! :v:
You're not in the habit of making posts that make sense, are you?
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29896514]You're not in the habit of making posts that make sense, are you?[/QUOTE] Who's to say that we all aren't senseless? Nah but seriously, whatever. I guess I should leave you guys with this senseless debate about something we couldn't possibly know.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;29896576]Who's to say that we all aren't senseless? Nah but seriously, whatever. I guess I should leave you guys with this senseless debate about something we couldn't possibly know.[/QUOTE] I couldn't possibly know for sure the details of all things I've discussed, does this mean no discussion? It's ridiculous
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;29896576]Who's to say that we all aren't senseless? Nah but seriously, whatever. I guess I should leave you guys with this senseless debate about something we couldn't possibly know.[/QUOTE] How do you know we can't possibly know that?
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;29896576]we couldn't possibly know.[/QUOTE] If you don't know anything about it how can you know we cant know anything about it?
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;29896745]If you don't know anything about it how can you know we cant know anything about it?[/QUOTE] About what now? God? Heaven and hell? Yeah we know so much about them we've accepted them as a "valid theories" so yeah I don't know, do you? Only God knows so to speak.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;29896823]About what now? God? Heaven and hell? Yeah we know so much about them we've accepted them as a "valid theories" so yeah I don't know, do you? Only God knows so to speak.[/QUOTE] You say we cant ever know of god. Even though I don't believe in god saying but your saying we cant know of god for no logical reason. If there is a god there definitely could be ways that he effects are universe in ways that we can know of him and saying he doesn't would imply that you know something of god.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;29896823]About what now? God? Heaven and hell? Yeah we know so much about them we've accepted them as a "valid theories" so yeah I don't know, do you? Only God knows so to speak.[/QUOTE] Gods.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;29893435]No, what we know is that humans go through a certain state during sleep, connected to when we say we dream.[/QUOTE] No for some people you actually can peg dreams based on really noticeable eye movement and delta wave frequencies, it's just that not every person has such strong indicators. This is like claiming we can't prove we have visible veins because you don't happen to see yours. [QUOTE=AK'z;29893459]Believe it or not. Every human being dreams when they sleep whether they remember it or not.[/QUOTE] Uh...that's also not true. Again, for some people you can actually measure their not having dreamed based on certain variables not changing in the ways they do if they are observed to dream. [QUOTE=Snipehamster;29895729]Simple - the exact same way that you know there are no fairies, leprechauns or unicorns. There's no evidence.[/QUOTE] Leprechauns ain't real? Since when? I've go drinking with two of 'em and Bigfoot every Thursday.
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