Volkswagen will never sell another diesel in the U.S. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=EddieLTU;51420570]haha we got your 1.9 TDI's america[/QUOTE] That's fine, we don't want them anyway. We're happy with our throaty V8s.

[QUOTE=TestECull;51431366]That's fine, we don't want them anyway. We're happy with our throaty V8s.[/QUOTE] V8's? pfft, the only things on the road using those are half ton pickup trucks, and even some of those are being designed with these new super duper V6's now.(Looking at you, Ford.) The only true V8 car left here is the Chevy SS and that is on the chopping block. Well, with the exception of most muscle cars I suppose.

Diesel is much more expensive and dirty than gas here in the US. A lot of cars can get 50 miles on the gallon these days so that's not an issue. I have no problems with this

[QUOTE=TestECull;51419396]I'm not surprised. Americans have never really been all that welcoming to the use of diesel engines in daily drivers to begin with and any progress they may have made towards changing that, towards passing out of the American Carbuyer's mind the memories of GM's attempts in the 80s, of clattery and noisy 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups spewing acrid clouds every time they're loaded down, all went up in smoke with the emissions scandal. What's truly funny is they were still burning cleaner in cheat mode than those old GM diesel V8s ever did :v:[/QUOTE] I've got one of the '80's GM diesels as my DD. '84 Chevy K20, 6.2 diesel. It doesn't smoke or clatter, though is noisy from my exhaust setup. As someone that owns one; 99% of the ones that spewed smoke did so from poor maintenance, failed repairs, bad mechanics. I am constantly working on mine and finding things that were previously incorrectly repaired. I owned one of the V8 gassers in almost the same truck, i could only get 8-9mpg out of it driving carefully. This truck, it's always 19-22mpg no matter how i drive. I have a hard time believing that a truck that burns 1/3rd the fuel would produce more pollution. [editline]27th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=mark6789;51435057]Diesel is much more expensive and dirty than gas here in the US. A lot of cars can get 50 miles on the gallon these days so that's not an issue. I have no problems with this[/QUOTE] Depending where you live, diesel is anywhere from the same price as gas, to 20c more. I usually pay anywhere from the same price to 10c more for it.

[QUOTE=mark6789;51435057]Diesel is much more expensive and dirty than gas here in the US. A lot of cars can get 50 miles on the gallon these days so that's not an issue. I have no problems with this[/QUOTE] Meanwhile, diesel here is 1,2 euros a litre, and 1,4 for gas, which is extremely expensive.

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;51419404]I feel bad for VW, being forced into such a corner by overzealous regulations. Then again I've never been a diesel person so eh[/QUOTE] Boo hoo, poor little multinational corporation can't handle some emissions standards. Maybe a massive bailout will cheer them up?

Stop making eco junk and start making some proper engines again, fucking greenies always fucking everything up.

[QUOTE=C0MMUNIZT;51436398]Stop making eco junk and start making some proper engines again, fucking greenies always fucking everything up.[/QUOTE] Electric engines are by no means not proper lol. Even if we're just talking about sporty shit, have you seen the model S? They excel in torque by their very nature too

[QUOTE=C0MMUNIZT;51436398]Stop making eco junk and start making some proper engines again, fucking greenies always fucking everything up.[/QUOTE] "I don't care about the environment, I want to go vroom vroom!" Have you even seen a model S?

Some of the worlds fastest cars are hybrids.

[QUOTE=FordLord;51435900]I've got one of the '80's GM diesels as my DD. '84 Chevy K20, 6.2 diesel. It doesn't smoke or clatter, though is noisy from my exhaust setup. As someone that owns one; 99% of the ones that spewed smoke did so from poor maintenance, failed repairs, bad mechanics. I am constantly working on mine and finding things that were previously incorrectly repaired. I owned one of the V8 gassers in almost the same truck, i could only get 8-9mpg out of it driving carefully. This truck, it's always 19-22mpg no matter how i drive. I have a hard time believing that a truck that burns 1/3rd the fuel would produce more pollution. [editline]27th November 2016[/editline] Depending where you live, diesel is anywhere from the same price as gas, to 20c more. I usually pay anywhere from the same price to 10c more for it.[/QUOTE] As sold from the factory they were clattery smokeboxes with a propensity for eating head gaskets. Yours is packing tons of modern fixes if it doesnt diesel knock or smoke. And thats good, because they were solid engines. Keep on truckin'!

[QUOTE=FordLord;51435900]I've got one of the '80's GM diesels as my DD. '84 Chevy K20, 6.2 diesel. It doesn't smoke or clatter, though is noisy from my exhaust setup. As someone that owns one; 99% of the ones that spewed smoke did so from poor maintenance, failed repairs, bad mechanics. I am constantly working on mine and finding things that were previously incorrectly repaired. I owned one of the V8 gassers in almost the same truck, i could only get 8-9mpg out of it driving carefully. This truck, it's always 19-22mpg no matter how i drive. I have a hard time believing that a truck that burns 1/3rd the fuel would produce more pollution. [editline]27th November 2016[/editline] Depending where you live, diesel is anywhere from the same price as gas, to 20c more. I usually pay anywhere from the same price to 10c more for it.[/QUOTE] They're burning 1/3rd the fuel but it's a different kind of fuel so that's an absolutely ridiculous comparison.

[QUOTE=C0MMUNIZT;51436398]Stop making eco junk and start making some proper engines again, fucking greenies always fucking everything up.[/QUOTE] This isn't even the fastest model. [video=youtube;UVXa6i3iqHw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVXa6i3iqHw[/video] [QUOTE=FordLord;51435900]I've got one of the '80's GM diesels as my DD. '84 Chevy K20, 6.2 diesel. It doesn't smoke or clatter, though is noisy from my exhaust setup. As someone that owns one; 99% of the ones that spewed smoke did so from poor maintenance, failed repairs, bad mechanics. I am constantly working on mine and finding things that were previously incorrectly repaired. I owned one of the V8 gassers in almost the same truck, i could only get 8-9mpg out of it driving carefully. This truck, it's always 19-22mpg no matter how i drive. I have a hard time believing that a truck that burns 1/3rd the fuel would produce more pollution. [editline]27th November 2016[/editline] Depending where you live, diesel is anywhere from the same price as gas, to 20c more. I usually pay anywhere from the same price to 10c more for it.[/QUOTE] Diesel produces NO2 emissions, gas engines only produce minimal amounts of it. This is due to two things, the fuel and oxygen aren't premixed like in a gasoline engine so you have left over oxygen in the combustion chamber after combustion has occurred. Diesel engines also combust at much higher temperatures. These two things combined allow the excess oxygen to combine with the nitrogen from the air (only happens at very high temperatures) to produce nitrogen dioxide. Nox is pretty terrible for human health, causing lots of lung issues, strokes, and heart disease. Also turns into ozone when in sunlight (ozone is very bad in the lower atmosphere for peoples health)

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51431497]V8's? pfft, the only things on the road using those are half ton pickup trucks[/quote] Which comprise a good third to half of the traffic you see on any given chunk of American roadway, more in the southern, western, and rural areas but even in the cities a substantial chunk. We love our V8s and we don't care if we have to buy a truck to get them. Also, new cars don't really count for much here. Most of us can't afford new cars, and those who buy them anyway are doing so while putting themselves in mountains of debt. In the 'Actually properly mathematically affordable for Average Joe' class you have a glut of Mustangs, of Camaros, Chargers, Challengers, Crown Vics(Both civvy and P71), and of course plenty of classics.[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51436423]Electric engines are by no means not proper lol. Even if we're just talking about sporty shit, have you seen the model S? They excel in torque by their very nature too[/QUOTE] Raw numbers do not a sporty engine make. A HUGE part of what makes people enjoy V8s, throaty V6s, rev-happy four pots, et al, is the way they sound, the way they feel. These are what you trade in for raw numbers, these are the things no electric car is ever going to deliver, and these are the things that mean a significant chunk of the carbuying public will never buy one. I'm one of them. I don't give a flying donkey dick if a Model S is faster than my Crown Vic. Why? I don't care about raw numbers. I care about the sensations I get when I weld my foot down, about hearing that 4.6 scream, about feeling the surge as it runs up through the powerband. I'll never need that extra performance anyway! The closest I'd ever come to needing the kick in the arse is when I'm getting onto the interstate via a tight cloverleaf, [i]and my crown vic has more than enough power to do this.[/i] The only flaw my 'Vic has, regarding fun and sportiness, is the automatic transmission, and that I will be converting it away from when finances allow. I, along with pretty much every gearhead that says the sorts of things C0MMUNIZT said, do so because the things we enjoy, the things that classify an engine as 'sporty', are unavailable in an electric car. No amount of 'hey look how much faster a Tesla is' will ever change our minds. The only thing that would would be offering a Tesla with the sporty engine of our choice in the place of the E-motor, or perhaps offering us one for pennies with all the electric bits alraedy removed so we can put one in ourselves. Not gonna lie, if money was no object I'd buy a Tesla specifically to rip out the E-motor, the batteries, and shove a 302CID Ford smallblock down in there. It'd be a fun project to build and I'd have way more fun with the resulting slower car than I ever would have driving it as-produced.

EVs also have benefits over the ICE in terms of feel as well, although when it comes to feel it's down to personal preference. You get instant response when you hit the pedal, the torque throws you back in your seat, almost one pedal driving thanks to regenerate braking, and some prefer the silence. Maybe someone could put gears in an EV if they can build a tough enough transmission for it. Sounds obviously won't ever come back but a motor does have it's own noise that sounds quite futuristic. Tesla are dominating the luxury sedan market. We will see how they compete with the 3 in the mid range sedan market, and how they compete in the pickup and semi truck market in a few years. If they can repeat their success then it will prove general public support for EVs.

[QUOTE=TestECull;51437020]Which comprise a good third to half of the traffic you see on any given chunk of American roadway, more in the southern, western, and rural areas but even in the cities a substantial chunk. We love our V8s and we don't care if we have to buy a truck to get them. Also, new cars don't really count for much here. Most of us can't afford new cars, and those who buy them anyway are doing so while putting themselves in mountains of debt. In the 'Actually properly mathematically affordable for Average Joe' class you have a glut of Mustangs, of Camaros, Chargers, Challengers, Crown Vics(Both civvy and P71), and of course plenty of classics. Raw numbers do not a sporty engine make. A HUGE part of what makes people enjoy V8s, throaty V6s, rev-happy four pots, et al, is the way they sound, the way they feel. These are what you trade in for raw numbers, these are the things no electric car is ever going to deliver, and these are the things that mean a significant chunk of the carbuying public will never buy one. I'm one of them. I don't give a flying donkey dick if a Model S is faster than my Crown Vic. Why? I don't care about raw numbers. I care about the sensations I get when I weld my foot down, about hearing that 4.6 scream, about feeling the surge as it runs up through the powerband. I'll never need that extra performance anyway! The closest I'd ever come to needing the kick in the arse is when I'm getting onto the interstate via a tight cloverleaf, [i]and my crown vic has more than enough power to do this.[/i] The only flaw my 'Vic has, regarding fun and sportiness, is the automatic transmission, and that I will be converting it away from when finances allow. I, along with pretty much every gearhead that says the sorts of things C0MMUNIZT said, do so because the things we enjoy, the things that classify an engine as 'sporty', are unavailable in an electric car. No amount of 'hey look how much faster a Tesla is' will ever change our minds. The only thing that would would be offering a Tesla with the sporty engine of our choice in the place of the E-motor, or perhaps offering us one for pennies with all the electric bits alraedy removed so we can put one in ourselves. Not gonna lie, if money was no object I'd buy a Tesla specifically to rip out the E-motor, the batteries, and shove a 302CID Ford smallblock down in there. It'd be a fun project to build and I'd have way more fun with the resulting slower car than I ever would have driving it as-produced.[/QUOTE] Okay you're allowed to be weird and have destructive preferences mate

[QUOTE=TestECull;51436572]As sold from the factory they were clattery smokeboxes with a propensity for eating head gaskets. Yours is packing tons of modern fixes if it doesnt diesel knock or smoke. And thats good, because they were solid engines. Keep on truckin'![/QUOTE] From the factory, they were pretty good. I've talked to people from the era, they have fond memories of the brand new 6.2 trucks. They were pretty clean running, it was the later 6.5 that has the headgasket issues (from the mid 90's). These trucks were the first to get diesel engines, most mechanics had no idea how to fix them - which is where clattering and smoking came from. They didn't have tools to time them, nor the know how on working with them. As far as mine - it is mostly just well maintained. Timing is set right, fuel system isn't cranked up, etc. [editline]27th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=geel9;51436577]They're burning 1/3rd the fuel but it's a different kind of fuel so that's an absolutely ridiculous comparison.[/QUOTE] Same truck, nearly same size (5.7 vs 6.2 liters), both non-turbo, from the same era. As fair as possible when compairing gas vs diesel.

[QUOTE=FordLord;51437746] Same truck, nearly same size (5.7 vs 6.2 liters), both non-turbo, from the same era. As fair as possible when compairing gas vs diesel.[/QUOTE] [url=http://news.berkeley.edu/2012/10/22/diesel-vs-gas-contributing-to-smog/]Diesel emits 15x more pollutants than gas[/url]. So while it's using 1/3rd the fuel, it's still effectively emitting 5x the pollutants.

[QUOTE=geel9;51437820][url=http://news.berkeley.edu/2012/10/22/diesel-vs-gas-contributing-to-smog/]Diesel emits 15x more pollutants than gas[/url]. So while it's using 1/3rd the fuel, it's still effectively emitting 5x the pollutants.[/QUOTE] That article/study is comparing groups of cars to groups of semi's, (3.0l gas jobs vs 12.0l+ diesels) it is not comparing cars to pickup trucks. I did manage to find a few other articles, not easy to find those that actually publish data. When it comes to NoX emissions, the diesel would be emitting about the same, if not less. According to what I have found, a carburated V8 gasoline engine with no catalytic converter can produce very high NoX levels, as much as the worst of diesels. Figure in that the diesel is burning 1/3rd of the fuel, it's entirely possible for, at least in this case, the diesel to have lower emissions.

Does it account for emissions spent from people that don't know how to drive diesels/willingly blow black smoke on Prisu's because they're douchebags? Diesel is simultaneously the fuel of choice for the honest working man, and the huge prick.

[QUOTE=geel9;51437429]Okay you're allowed to be weird and have destructive preferences mate[/QUOTE] I wouldn't call it overtly destructive, buying a car isn't a carbon neutral investment no matter what, I think people like him will always be around that prefer ICE and in small numbers it won't really be too harmful in the big picture, especially since they'll probably have increasing taxes forced upon them with time so they're hobby will help out in other ways. I think he's exaggerating how many people will actually religiously stick to ICE though. Most people just see their vehicles as a thing to get them from point A to point B, so with the benefits of electric they'll probably switch over as it becomes cheaper and cheaper. I personally plan on getting an electric car eventually, and since I'm getting a motorcycle soon that will be my "fun" vehicle when i want to hear vroom vroom, fudge about with gear switching, and stare death in the face.