Turkish military shoots down fighter jet near Syria-Turkey border - Polidicks

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49180860]In a 100 years or so some teenager is going to find that and think "what the fuck happened there"[/QUOTE] Exactly. Everyone's friends is enemies of each other's friends but they're okay with eachother because they hate some other faction even more than they hate the other nations' friends who are their enemies. [editline]25th November 2015[/editline] To make it more fucked up, Russia's campaign is coordinated with both Israel [I]and[/I] Iran. How that even happens I don't know. [editline]25th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49180860] edit: where is that from? The one on the syrian civil war wiki page is slightly different and includes the kurds as well. What an utter mess. The Arab spring was an absolute tragedy all things considered.[/QUOTE] The Russian intervention. Gotta go nation-by-nation to see who's who. [editline]25th November 2015[/editline] But to put it real simple in relation to this single event; Turkey's man-on-the-ground here is the Turkman rebels, and Russia's man-on-the-ground is Assad's government forces. These two factions are in open conflict with each other. Russia most certainly bombs the Turkmans, and Turkey most likely bombs the government forces. Russia and Turkey do not share interests. Russia and Turkey are not in a coalition together. Russia and Turkey are not allies. This was not, as it would be easy to think, a blue-on-blue. Not even really a blue-on-green.

It's a teal-on-pink. Supporting elements conflict each other rather than engage in full combat alongside the main ground forces.

There are uncomfirmed report in russia media sphere that syrian army recovered second pilot from within rebel territory.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;49178155]how likely is it that NATO will just kick Turkey out of the pact for this kind of recklessness?[/QUOTE] so extremely unlikely due to the strategic position of turkey as a NATO ally in an geopolitical sense. With turkey, you are connected to the EU, Eurasia, and the middle east.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;49182399]There are uncomfirmed report in russia media sphere that syrian army recovered second pilot from within rebel territory.[/QUOTE] confirmed

As far as I know, the NATO regulations say that if a foreign jet enters your airspace, you are to escort them out, not shoot them down. [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("alt of perma'd user" - Orkel))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;49183640]confirmed[/QUOTE] thank fuck for that [editline]25th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=6billion;49183862]As far as I know, the NATO regulations say that if a foreign jet enters your airspace, you are to escort them out, not shoot them down.[/QUOTE] yeah, that's what we do. imagine if we shot down the Russian bomber over the channel earlier this year?

Here is a link about it. [url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34917485[/url] Should mention, Russia is launching airstrikes near Turkish border, while talking about deploying S400's at Hmeymim. They are pretty much giving Turkey the finger right now.

Interesting news bits I've noticed: So apparently the Turkmen commander that shot at the downed pilot is a turkish citizen and member of the grey wolves, a far right, clandestine, and pro-government turkish paramilitary. [url]http://www.dha.com.tr/mhpli-eski-baskanin-oglu-savasmak-icin-iraka-gitti_715269.html[/url] Greece expresses solidarity with Russia, incidentally turkey violated its airspace 2200 times last year. [url]http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/24/turkey-violated-greek-airspace-2244-times-last-year-fires-at-russia-for-doing-it-once/[/url] Apparently the US agrees the plane was shot down in Syrian air space, after an incursion lasting as said 17 seconds. [url]http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/25/turkey-shot-down-russian-jet-in-syrian-airspace-source.html[/url] Also according to RT anyway, Russia will be pursuing sanctions on turkish officials entangled in the oil trade with isis, apparently. Probably true considering how deeply entangled they are with other Sunni Islamists and all the [url=http://ig.ft.com/sites/2015/isis-oil/images/main-map-lxl-1210b.jpg]oil markets near its borders[/url] Cnn: [quote]The cool, calm, clear thinking that kept the NATO alliance intact as it weathered the Cold War with the Soviet Union has been shattered. [...] Opportunity lost? Both Obama and his White House guest, French President Francois Hollande, urged Russia to strike at ISIS targets in Syria, in concert with their coalition rather than going it alone. Perhaps that seemed more possible this week, with both France and Russia mourning losses from ISIS terror and when they were collectively trading their national tragedies for compromises to find a solution in Syria. Hollande lost 130 people to ISIS in the Paris attacks this month and Putin 224 to terrorist bombers who blew up a Russian passenger jet a few weeks earlier. So both have a moral authority to galvanize collective action. It was a rare moment in international diplomacy and some diplomats were beginning to think Russia's policy on Syria and its support for Bashar al-Assad could be changed. Not quickly, or easily, but the chance was there. [B]And Erdogan has squandered it.[/b][/quote] [url]http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/25/europe/nato-putin-turkey-syria-analysis/[/url] Turkish fm expresses sorrow over phone to lavrov: [url]http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-fm-calls-russias-lavrov-to-express-sorrow.aspx?pageID=238&nID=91654&NewsCatID=352[/url] In addition to intensified Russian air strikes against Syrian 'moderates' and turkish, Sunni Islamic proxies in the area, the SAA is attacking on the ground: [url]http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/breaking-syrian-army-launches-offensive-in-the-al-nuba-mountains-of-northeastern-latakia/[/url] What a disaster for Erdogan's pseudo-islamist, neo-ottoman policy in Syria. His fundamentally non-Western foreign policy that antagonizes countries like Russia and China will make it difficult for a real anti-Isis coalition to form, and help keep a real solution for Syria out of sight.

[QUOTE=Inspector N;49180374]To the point about 17 seconds being a minuscule time period - it's really not. 17 Seconds is a long time for a fast Jet. Added to the fact they were severely warned before even entering the airspace and they had it coming.[/QUOTE] Turkey said it took 17 seconds to cross 2150m, that translates to a mere 455 km/h, the Stall speed on a SU-24 with fully extended wings and flaps is 390 km/h at sea level, the plane was flying at 19,600 feet, I don't know if you know but the higher you are the higher your stall speed, which at 18,000 feet for a SU-24 is 480 km/h. Meanwhile the cruise speed of a SU24 is 1,300 km/h, even we we assume it was only flying 1,000 km/h, it would've been in Turkish airspace for less than [I][B]less than ten seconds, at maximum[/B][/I].

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBe4bm1WFY[/media] sums up the entire situation.

[QUOTE=Broseph_;49185820]Turkey said it took 17 seconds to cross 2150m, that translates to a mere 455 km/h, the Stall speed on a SU-24 with fully extended wings and flaps is 390 km/h at sea level, the plane was flying at 19,600 feet, I don't know if you know but the higher you are the higher your stall speed, which at 18,000 feet for a SU-24 is 480 km/h. Meanwhile the cruise speed of a SU24 is 1,300 km/h, even we we assume it was only flying 1,000 km/h, it would've been in Turkish airspace for less than [I][B]less than ten seconds, at maximum[/B][/I].[/QUOTE] If he were there for minutes it still wouldn't have been justified.