Dad of four, shot in Brixton (South London) whilst breaking up a fight. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Gareth;29468005]If you have ever met a person like this they simply see prison as a way of building respect and becoming even more dangerous when they get out. Seriously some of the fuckers in these gangs can kill with no remorse and always will.[/QUOTE] This is true. Many are like this if they're gang members, but not all. [editline]27th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=JDK721;29468030]yeah, but I think you're exaggerating the amount of how many people are actually "beyond rehabilitation."[/QUOTE] I never did state an amount. Show me where I even implied an amount.

[QUOTE=archangel125;29467958]That's kind of what I meant by "beyond rehabilitation".[/QUOTE] Ah, then I agree with what you are saying regarding rehabilitation.

[QUOTE=Contag;29468011]Is that a bad thing?[/QUOTE] it's pointless and stupid thing.

[QUOTE=Gekkosan;29468081]it's pointless and stupid thing.[/QUOTE] Why is that? It does save money, and allows prisoners to voluntarily pay the ultimate price for their crimes. Ask people to justify their position so I may get another perspective? Nah fuck that, rate boxes.

[QUOTE=Gareth;29468005]If you have ever met a person like this they simply see prison as a way of building respect and becoming even more dangerous when they get out. Seriously some of the fuckers in these gangs can kill with no remorse and always will.[/QUOTE] the system is partially at fault then. US prisons/jails are colleges for criminals. the US justice system does not really give a shit about rehabilitation compared to other advanced nations. it's all about punishment/revenge.

[QUOTE=JDK721;29468111]the system is partially at fault then. US prisons/jails are colleges for criminals. the US justice system does not really give a shit about rehabilitation compared to other advanced nations. it's all about punishment/revenge.[/QUOTE] I didn't really mean it like that, i mean is that people who are willing to gun down someone for splitting up an argument, and even getting enjoyment out of killing other human beings is really really not fit to be let loose in public after that. Fair enough if someone kills a dude by accident or revenge or w/e but killing people for enjoyment is wrong in every single way.

[QUOTE=archangel125;29468039]I never did state an amount. Show me where I even implied an amount.[/QUOTE] nevermind, I thought you said "many" or something

[QUOTE=Appolox;29467928]He's in "Gay Pride" groups in his steam, so I guess this is the reason he's so butthurt, he got pumped too hard.[/QUOTE] Oh god, and he has this in his steam page: ╔═╦╗╔╦═╦═╦╗╔╗ ♥ Put This On ║═╣║║║╔╣╔╣╚╝║ Your Steam ID if ║╔╣╚╝║║║║╚╗╔╝ You Are Or ╚╝╚══╩╝╚╝♥╚╝ Support Furries! ♥ Nice to know your one of those guys who just have to announce their creepy fetish with pride to the rest of the world with big signatures. [editline]27th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Gareth;29468141]I didn't really mean it like that, i mean is that people who are willing to gun down someone for splitting up an argument, and even getting enjoyment out of killing other human beings is really really not fit to be let loose in public after that. Fair enough if someone kills a dude by accident or revenge or w/e but killing people for enjoyment is wrong in every single way.[/QUOTE] I very much agree. Although I'm sure certain people may be actually rehabilitated in the end, but the risk that they may not be rehabilitated and/or slip into previous behavior is putting other people at risk.

[QUOTE=Appolox;29467928]He's in "Gay Pride" groups in his steam, so I guess this is the reason he's so butthurt, he got pumped too hard.[/QUOTE] yeh the homophobia makes me even more willing to accept your arguments good job

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;29468283]yeh the homophobia makes me even more willing to accept your arguments good job[/QUOTE] Where do you see my homophobia, I'm actually very tolerant and I know people 'irl' who are gay and actually accept it, did you see me write things such as "you fucking gay" "you homo idiot" etc? Then where is my homophobia, because I don't see it.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqcizZebcaU[/media] How fitting...

[QUOTE=Appolox;29466237]I was at that McDonald's once, before going to concert in Brixton Arena, Brixton is a shit hole, people there are assholes. [/QUOTE] brixton isn't that bad

[QUOTE=thisispain;29468435]brixton isn't that bad[/QUOTE] Except when I was there in the evening I heard a gunshot, later on police and ambulances.

[QUOTE=Appolox;29468519]Except when I was there in the evening I heard a gunshot, later on police and ambulances.[/QUOTE] bloody good job mate you learned that it's a high crime area i'm proud of you

[QUOTE=thisispain;29468537]bloody good job mate you learned that it's a high crime area i'm proud of you[/QUOTE] Well Brixton it is, once I woke up in the morning and some idiot was hiding in the bushes at the front of my window, Police arrested him. And I lived in Brixton for 2 years.

[QUOTE=Appolox;29468561]Well Brixton it is, once I woke up in the morning and some idiot was hiding in the bushes at the front of my window, Police arrested him. And I lived in Brixton for 2 years.[/QUOTE] yeah doesn't mean it's a bad place, what's life without a bit of danger though granted you're daft if you try to raise kids there

It's true, If I had kids I would rather raise them at countryside.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqcizZebcaU[/media]

[QUOTE=Sanius;29466442]You're a child. Killing is killing. You can't arbitrarily say that killing one person is somehow better than killing another.[/QUOTE] Then, by your logic, a war of self-defense is murder. Let's arrest every soldier alive today who has ever killed an enemy combatant, because they must be murderers.

[QUOTE=Jenkem;29468615]Then, by your logic, a war of self-defense is murder. [/QUOTE] Sorry, what? I said nothing about murder. You're grabbing at straws.

[QUOTE=Jenkem;29468615]Then, by your logic, a war of self-defense is murder. Let's arrest every soldier alive today who has ever killed an enemy combatant, because they must be murderers.[/QUOTE] War is different, and soldiers go to marshal court for their crimes.

This why we need a prison in total isolation on Antarctica. Stuff these fuckers in that shithole, and let them live there till they die.

[QUOTE=Jenkem;29468615]Then, by your logic, a war of self-defense is murder. Let's arrest every soldier alive today who has ever killed an enemy combatant, because they must be murderers.[/QUOTE] killing and murdering are different things [QUOTE=ItWasNiceToKnow;29468673]This why we need a prison in total isolation on Antarctica. Stuff these fuckers in that shithole, and let them live there till they die.[/QUOTE] good use of tax-payers money. i'm sure this place wouldn't be difficult or costly to run at all. swell idea well done.

I guess I should apologise to Sanius, I raged hard when I read the article, I've lost a friend in Brixton due to stab attack on the street by 3. But now I regained my sanity.

[quote]There's a claim that it is more expensive for the state to execute a criminal than to incarcerate him for life. Many opponents present, as fact, that the cost of the death penalty is so expensive (at least $2 million per case?), that we must choose life without parole ("LWOP") at a cost of $1 million for 50 years. Predictably, these pronouncements may be entirely false. JFA (Justice for All) estimates that LWOP cases will cost $1.2 million - $3.6 million more than equivalent death penalty cases. And life without parole prisoners face, on average, 30 or 40 years in prison while the annual cost of incarceration is $40,000 to $50,000 a year for each prisoner or more! There is no question that the up front costs of the death penalty are significantly higher than for equivalent LWOP cases. There also appears to be no question that, over time, equivalent LWOP cases are much more expensive - from $1.2 to $3.6 million - than death penalty cases. Opponents ludicrously claim that the death penalty costs, over time, 3-10 times more than LWOP. The $34,200 is conservative, if TIME Magazine's (2/7/94) research is accurate. TIME found that, nationwide, the average cell cost is $24,000/yr. and the maximum security cell cost is $75,000/yr. (as of12/95). Opponents claim that LWOP should replace the DP. Therefore, any cost calculations should be based specifically on cell costs for criminals who have committed the exact same category of offense - in other words, cost comparisons are valid only if you compare the costs of DP-equivalent LWOP cases to the cost of DP cases. The $34,200/yr. cell cost assumes that only 20% of the DP-equivalent LWOP cases would be in maximum security cost cells and that 80% of the DP-equivalent LWOP cases would be in average cost cells. A very conservative estimate. The $60,000/yr., for those on death row, assumes that such cells will average a cost equal to 80% of the $75,000/yr. for the most expensive maximum security cells. A very high estimate. Even though we are calculating a 75% greater cell cost for the DP than for equivalent LWOP cases, equivalent LWOP cases appear to be significantly more expensive, over time, than their DP counterparts. For years, opponents have improperly compared the cost of all LWOP cases to DP cases, when only the DP equivalent LWOP cases are relevant. Annual cost increases are based upon: 1) historical increases in prison costs, including judicial decisions regarding prison conditions,and the national inflation rate; 2) medical costs, including the immense cost of geriatric care, associated with real LWOP sentences; 3) injury or death to the inmate by violence; 4) injury or death to others caused by the inmate (3 and 4 anticipate no DP and that prisoners, not fearing additional punishment, other than loss of privileges, may increase the likelihood of violence. One could make the same assumptions regarding those on death row. The difference is that death row inmates will average 6 years incarceration vs. 50 years projected for LWOP); 5) the risk and the perceived risk of escape; and 6) the justifiable lack of confidence by the populace in our legislators, governors, parole boards and judges, i.e. a violent inmate will be released upon society. $75,000 for trial and appeals cost, for DP-equivalent LWOP cases, assumes that the DP is not an option. It is believed that this cost estimate is very low. It is over-estimated that DP cases will cost twenty times more, on average, or $1.5 million. This exaggerated estimate states that the DP will have twenty times more investigation cost, defense and prosecution cost, including court time, guilt/innocence stage, sentencing stage and appellate review time and cost than DP equivalent LWOP cases. Even though abolitionists have greatly exaggerated the cost of DP cases, DP cases still prove to be significantly less expensive, over time, than the DP equivalent LWOP cases. 6 years on death row, prior to execution, reflects the new habeas corpus reform laws, at both the state and federal levels. Some anti-death penalty groups speculate that such time may actually become only 4 years. If so, then DP cases would cost even that much less than the DP equivalent LWOP cases. However, the average time on death row, for those executed from 1973-1994, was 8 years. Therefore, 6 years seems more likely. Even using the 8 year average, the DP equivalent LWOP cases are still $1 million more expensive than their DP counterparts ($2 million @ 2% annual increase). So the death penalty costs reside mainly in appeals costs. Life without parole prisoners get the same appeals and should be considered to bear the same costs.[/quote] Criminology, the Judicial System and its laws are not exactly my specialty so what do you have to say about this?

[QUOTE=Melnek;29468765]*stuff*[/QUOTE] Nice sourceless/referenceless material there written in a totally unbiased objective fashion This place does not look like anything capable of making a reputable study: [url]http://www.justice-for-all.org.uk/[/url]

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;29468832]Nice sourceless/referenceless material there written in a totally unbiased objective fashion This place does not look like anything capable of making a reputable study: [url]http://www.justice-for-all.org.uk/[/url][/QUOTE] Again, I'm not an expert in these fields nor have they ever interested me until now, which is why I am wondering. But the claim that most costs lay in appeals which both sides get sounds quite convincing.

What's the source of the quote?

A shitty Yahoo answer :v: [url]http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080427201004AAMBQUv[/url] Although it appears it also originates from here [url]http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/dp.html[/url] So I really do not know.

I'd be a bit more persuaded if they didn't try to use Time magazine as an academic source. [quote][B]the justifiable lack of confidence by the populace[/B] in our legislators, governors, parole boards and judges[/quote] Stopped reading there. It went from pseudo-academia to full blown political propaganda there. I mean, really. We better just throw out the legislators, governors, parole boards and judges, right, because they can't do anything properly. [editline]28th April 2011[/editline] Last time I checked, the US was a democracy in which legislators were elected. [editline]28th April 2011[/editline] [quote]"Jesus loves you, Jesus loves you." Said over and over to her rapist just before he murdered her.[/quote] :frog: