Hashimoto is a hopeless populist. Before making his stupid party, he was criticized by the right for being too left-wing. It's clear he has no vision of anything but his own position. I gave up on this dude after he reached out to Ishihara just about as he was about to finally fade away.
[QUOTE=Megafan;40641106]I think you'd be wrong to say that Japanese people are in general unaware of the fact that the Japanese military committed war crimes, but it's not that surprising that some wouldn't be aware of specifics like a particular unit.
Can Germans name a particular unit of the Wermacht that was especially atrocious? Perhaps, but you wouldn't call them ignorant if they just had a general idea that the German military committed atrocities. It's no different in Western countries.[/QUOTE]
Unit 731 is pretty infamous. It's a little different not remembering some random unit in a massive German army than not remembering a biological weapons facility famous for its use of civilian women, men and children in experiments on the limit of human pain and the efficiency of various biological weapons. Not to mention there have been a number of popular movies and books (quite a few originating from Japan) depicting the atrocities of Unit 731.
That's like a German having never heard of Auschwitz.
Its not that the Japanese aren't aware (at least those from that period, the newer generation probably has no idea), its just that they don't want to be reminded of the shit that went down in the 30's and 40's. That's why a good chunk of the Japanese populace (excluding the Japanese commie party and traditionalists) really wanted to push forward with McArthur's little constitution. They wanted to get away from the old Japan that led them to this horrible point in time. It's not far-fetched to see traditionalists/ultranationalists wanting to bring back these old symbols/parts of Japan, but they typically never go anywhere. And if they do, I don't hear a lot of it.
This guy just sounds bonkers though..
I believe the reason he said this was because a while back an American Soldier, (I'm not sure what branch it was) raped a Japanese woman and he got punished (as he should have).
The main issue here is that while this Japanese Mayor isn't saying that forcing women to be prostitutes is important, but that it's important for Men in the army to not to be sexually frustrated and resort to performing violent crimes to relive that pent up stress.
The article is just written extremely negatively and does not present the main problem that the mayor is trying to address.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40641378]In the midst of all this denunciation of his statement, do we have any actual evidence pertaining to how well comfort-women contribute to soldier discipline? It is possible to argue for it on utilitarian grounds, given sufficient causal reduction in wartime atrocities. Perhaps we should compare which army units had access to sex slaves, and which ones did war crimes, and see if there is any significant overlap?
[editline]14th May 2013[/editline]
It's a grim choice but between the rape of a few anonymous peasant girls and the Rape of Nanking, we ought to choose the first, no?[/QUOTE]
Dude, I realize you have a hard-on for being edgy and so countercurrent and hard men doing hard things, but seriously, skarkaing for sex-slavers? There comes a point where you have to reexamine your life.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;40643232]Dude, I realize you have a hard-on for being edgy and so countercurrent and hard men doing hard things, but seriously, skarkaing for sex-slavers? There comes a point where you have to reexamine your life.[/QUOTE]
Well how do we know that he isn't right? It's an important question and it's sad to see peoples kneejerking to this.
(also i learned what "skarkaing" means today)
[QUOTE=Novangel;40640902]Nationalists are a very small part of Japan, it's like hearing from Westboro and thinking that's what Americans think.[/QUOTE]
To be honest, the japanese do shun a lot of ww2 issues away, to the point of trying to never bring it up in text books in schools as well.
Likewise they didn't have the same issues as germans with popular culture portraying them as much.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40643353]Well how do we know that he isn't right? It's an important question and it's sad to see peoples kneejerking to this.
(also i learned what "skarkaing" means today)[/QUOTE]
The thing is you have a tendency to support ridiculous propositions for really dumb reasons. I remember you were quite boastful and bragging the fact that you argued for genocide and didn't get banned. Why does that matter? Do you feel special/distinguished by purposely taking up ridiculous positions? No one sees you as more analytical, just weird.
japanese do not (support war denial, etc), the japanese government does. please note the difference
[editline]14th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=wraithcat;40643387]To be honest, the japanese do shun a lot of ww2 issues away, to the point of trying to never bring it up in text books in schools as well.
Likewise they didn't have the same issues as germans with popular culture portraying them as much.[/QUOTE]
in reference to this post
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;40643232]Dude, I realize you have a hard-on for being edgy and so countercurrent and hard men doing hard things, but seriously, skarkaing for sex-slavers? There comes a point where you have to reexamine your life.[/QUOTE]
dude cant u see slavery saved lives. if not for sex slaves in the japanese army we would have had things like the rape of nanking and pow labor camps.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;40643463]The thing is you have a tendency to support ridiculous propositions for really dumb reasons. I remember you were quite boastful and bragging the fact that you argued for genocide and didn't get banned. Why does that matter? Do you feel special/distinguished by purposely taking up ridiculous positions? No one sees you as more analytical, just weird.[/QUOTE]
I never argued for genocide and I certainly never boasted about it. I want to know whether or not this guy's claims are plausible, which is a different question to whether we feel revulsion.
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;40643474]japanese do not (support war denial, etc), the japanese government does. please note the difference
[editline]14th May 2013[/editline]
in reference to this post[/QUOTE]
Sure, but by now so many of them are essentially ignorant of what actually did happen in the war.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40643635]I never argued for genocide and I certainly never boasted about it. I want to know whether or not this guy's claims are plausible, which is a different question to whether we feel revulsion.[/QUOTE]
Considering the japanese did a lot of war crimes, including their treatment of POWs, that theory probably doesn't hold much merit.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;40643773]Considering the japanese did a lot of war crimes, including their treatment of POWs, that theory probably doesn't hold much merit.[/QUOTE]
But not all Japanese troops had sex slaves, and indeed not all countries that committed war crimes had sex slaves. Conversely not all countries with sex slaves have committed war crimes. We need to take a more granular look, to see how the presence or absence of sex slaves within a group of soldiers contributes to their likelihood of committing war crimes.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;40643463]The thing is you have a tendency to support ridiculous propositions for really dumb reasons. I remember you were quite boastful and bragging the fact that you argued for genocide and didn't get banned. Why does that matter? Do you feel special/distinguished by purposely taking up ridiculous positions? No one sees you as more analytical, just weird.[/QUOTE]
are you threatening to ban him?
please ban him
please
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40643913]But not all Japanese troops had sex slaves, and indeed not all countries that committed war crimes had sex slaves. Conversely not all countries with sex slaves have committed war crimes. We need to take a more granular look, to see how the presence or absence of sex slaves within a group of soldiers contributes to their likelihood of committing war crimes.[/QUOTE]
actually all countries with sex slaves committed war crimes considering having sex slaves is a war crime.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;40643387]To be honest, the japanese do shun a lot of ww2 issues away, to the point of trying to never bring it up in text books in schools as well.
Likewise they didn't have the same issues as germans with popular culture portraying them as much.[/QUOTE]
Have you ever actually read or looked at a Japanese textbook? The scandal for which this is most claimed was in 2000, when the 'New History Textbook' was put out by a group of conservative scholars. Yes, it whitewashed Japanese atrocities, but there was a massive outcry against it and ended up being used by only ~0.04% of junior high schools in Japan as of 2001, and even by 2004 was used by less than twenty schools (eight of which were private) across Japan.
So no, do not make these ridiculous claims without some backing for it.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40644090]actually all countries with sex slaves committed war crimes considering having sex slaves is a war crime.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, it's just substituting one sort of war crime for another.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;40643773]Sure, but by now so many of them are essentially ignorant of what actually did happen in the war.[/QUOTE]
Don't claim this kind of nonsense. By a lot of metrics Americans hardly know about the Trail of Tears or similarly heinous acts, so unless you have a double standard, this is hardly a criticism you can apply just to Japan.
[QUOTE=Megafan;40644230]Have you ever actually read or looked at a Japanese textbook? The scandal for which this is most claimed was in 2000, when the 'New History Textbook' was put out by a group of conservative scholars. Yes, it whitewashed Japanese atrocities, but there was a massive outcry against it and ended up being used by only ~0.04% of junior high schools in Japan as of 2001, and even by 2004 was used by less than twenty schools (eight of which were private) across Japan.
So no, do not make these ridiculous claims without some backing for it.[/QUOTE]
Largely anecdotal but their textbooks still do often tend to skim over the worst aspects [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21226068[/url]
[editline]14th May 2013[/editline]
Or at least don't go into them in detail
[QUOTE=James*;40644283]Largely anecdotal but their textbooks still do often tend to skim over the worst aspects [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21226068[/url]
[editline]14th May 2013[/editline]
Or at least don't go into them in detail[/QUOTE]
Again, you could go to one of the schools that used the bad textbooks and write up a long expose on 'the state of Japanese education', but it isn't the same throughout.
Let me ask again, how knowledgeable are high school students in the West about their nations' past, their bad marks by comparison? How many British citizens know about each nation of people the Empire colonized? How many Americans can talk at length about racial discrimination in their country, on average?
Surely I can find a school in the South somewhere that teaches creationism, but you'd hardly say that's representative of the whole country.
I believe the US did the same thing, all though I think it was limited to the Negro units in the North Africa campaign.
[QUOTE=Megafan;40644369]Let me ask again, how knowledgeable are high school students in the West about their nations' past, their bad marks by comparison? How many British citizens know about each nation of people the Empire colonized? How many Americans can talk at length about racial discrimination in their country, on average?[/QUOTE]
Perhaps not much better, but how many Western politicians would dare deny or attempt to downplay such incidents? I don't necessarily agree with the statement that many Japanese people are ignorant of what happened btw, but the fact comfort women is still an ongoing issue suggests Japan's relationship with its history isn't particularly healthy.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40644090]actually all countries with sex slaves committed war crimes considering having sex slaves is a war crime.[/QUOTE]
not all war crimes are created equal
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40644724]not all war crimes are created equal[/QUOTE]
none of them are good.
[editline]14th May 2013[/editline]
or valuable.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40644778]none of them are good.
[editline]14th May 2013[/editline]
or valuable.[/QUOTE]
No but we can trade one versus the other. This is not a difficult concept.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40644724]not all war crimes are created equal[/QUOTE]
Please present to us your hierarchy of atrocities
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40644785]No but we can trade one versus the other. This is not a difficult concept.[/QUOTE]
no you can't, not even within your broken utilitarian ideology can you justify trading war crimes. the very nature of them decreases utility for everyone but the perpetrator.
Am I the only one that read the first line? Outspoken nationalists aren't well known for their regard for other countries.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40644817]no you can't, not even within your broken utilitarian ideology can you justify trading war crimes. the very nature of them decreases utility for everyone but the perpetrator.[/QUOTE]
.. by different amounts
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40644922].. by different amounts[/QUOTE]
really? and how to do measure the utility when it involves something like fear? what if a small group of people are really scared, or a big group of people are only a little scared? sex slaves decrease utility of every peasant woman in the occupied countries because now they have been made a target for rape and abuse. burning down a city decreases utility for everyone living in cities because the example created makes them a target for further cruelty.
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