[QUOTE=Zeke129;32755666]You're rather apologetic for them. In this very thread you beat around the bush by saying that the Patriot Act was "passed by a bipartisan congress" instead of calling it was it really was: a republican-introduced piece of legislation signed by a republican president.
Yes, Obama is an asshole for extending it, [b]but what do you think would have happened if he didn't?[/b] The GOP and conservative media would be all over him for being soft on terror or something.[/QUOTE]
I agree with everything in your post but this.
If that's his excuse for continuing an act that violates the rights of American citizens, it's not working.
What he should have done is put the interests of the American people first and refuse to pass it, rather than succumbing to fears of Republican hatred. You can't blame all of Obama's shortcomings on the Republicans.
[QUOTE=Nikota;32755693]See. The difference between Glaber and Ridge.[/QUOTE]
Oh my god would you stop going on about this Glaber v Ridge stuff
[QUOTE=Nikota;32755578]I need some citations Ridge.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1127158]White House's 'We the People' site open to the public now[/url]
I'm trying to find the original article, but I remember members of Congress suggested this idea just a year or two ago. People on this very forum predicted that 4chan would end up running the government if they let the people vote on what bills should be presented for a vote.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32755709]I agree with everything in your post but this.
If that's his excuse for continuing an act that violates the rights of American citizens, it's not working.
What he should have done is put the interests of the American people first and refuse to pass it, rather than succumbing to fears of Republican hatred. You can't blame all of Obama's shortcomings on the Republicans.[/QUOTE]
Obama took the foolish route and thought the republican politicans. had morals or free will and an ability to see past their wallet.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32755666]You're rather apologetic for them. In this very thread you beat around the bush by saying that the Patriot Act was "passed by a bipartisan congress" instead of calling it was it really was: a republican-introduced piece of legislation signed by a republican president.
Yes, Obama is an asshole for extending it, but what do you think would have happened if he didn't? The GOP and conservative media would be all over him for being soft on terror or something.[/QUOTE]
[quote]The Act was passed in the House by 357 to 66 (of 435) and in the Senate by 98 to 1 and was supported by members of both the Republican and Democratic parties.[/quote]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act[/url]
Like I said. Plenty of blame to go around.
They have gotten to the point of being completely shameless with their petty political games. The GOP will not raise a single finger to make things better for the average American if their guy isn't in office to take credit for it.
Not that they do jack shit for regular people when they ARE in power...
[QUOTE=Nikota;32755722]Obama took the foolish route and thought the republican politicans. had morals or free will and an ability to see past their wallet.[/QUOTE]
See, there it is. Obama is off the hook for this one because apparently he had faith in the GOP to divert from the course they've held for the past 8 years before it went back to his desk for renewal.
[QUOTE=Nikota;32755722]Obama took the foolish route and thought the republican politicans. had morals or free will and an ability to see past their wallet.[/QUOTE]
No, [b]stop that[/b]
You can't blame everything on the Republicans
Obama wasn't "hoping Republicans had morals", he was being a shitty president and a politician and he was continuing a terrible enactment because his administration utilizes the violation of rights that are covered by that bill
This is the thing that annoys me so much about Obama supporters, you guys act like he's the second coming of christ and when confonted with the fact that he's still a POLITICIAN you just blame it on the Republicans
The Republicans have majorly fucked with Obamas efforts during his run as president and they deserve a lot of blame, but stop using them as a scapegoat so you can keep pretending that Obama is the great president you thought he was
Cmon, we all know that people are on board with getting this passed... just need the last few kinks worked out.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32755858]No, [b]stop that[/b]
You can't blame everything on the Republicans
Obama wasn't "hoping Republicans had morals", he was being a shitty president and a politician and he was continuing a terrible enactment because his administration utilizes the violation of rights that are covered by that bill
This is the thing that annoys me so much about Obama supporters, you guys act like he's the second coming of christ and when confonted with the fact that he's still a POLITICIAN you just blame it on the Republicans
The Republicans have majorly fucked with Obamas efforts during his run as president and they deserve a lot of blame, but stop using them as a scapegoat so you can keep pretending that Obama is the great president you thought he was[/QUOTE]
Obamas not the greatest president but he's doing the best that anyone could do in the current situation. He has a sewage system full of problems dumped on him and he's trying to get people to work together to help the American people. For that he's doing a decent job. He fucks up from time to time but name one president who hasnt.
Hoping for cooperation and having them hold their ears and cry out "JOBS JOBS I WANT JOBS LALALALALA NO TAX CUTS!" is worse then him trying to be their friend to help out everyone else.
[editline]13th October 2011[/editline]
Do you have auto dumb on my posts now or something?
[QUOTE=Nikota;32755972]Obamas not the greatest president but he's doing the best that anyone could do in the current situation. He has a sewage system full of problems dumped on him and he's trying to get people to work together to help the American people. For that he's doing a decent job. He fucks up from time to time but name one president who hasnt.
Hoping for cooperation and having them hold their ears and cry out "JOBS JOBS I WANT JOBS LALALALALA NO TAX CUTS!" is worse then him trying to be their friend.[/QUOTE]
Somehow I doubt you'd be so forgiving if he were a Republican.
My god it really is saddening that I actually have to defend Republicans just because your level of bias is so high. Congrats on not even addressing the topic of my post, which was people blaming Republicans for all of Obama's shortcomings. If anything all you did was reinforce it by continuing to defend Obama as the best possible president we could have in this scenario if only those darn Republicans could let him work his magic
[QUOTE=Nikota;32755972]Obamas not the greatest president but he's doing the best that anyone could do in the current situation. He has a sewage system full of problems dumped on him and he's trying to get people to work together to help the American people. For that he's doing a decent job. He fucks up from time to time but name one president who hasnt.
Hoping for cooperation and having them hold their ears and cry out "JOBS JOBS I WANT JOBS LALALALALA NO TAX CUTS!" is worse then him trying to be their friend to help out everyone else.
[editline]13th October 2011[/editline]
Do you have auto dumb on my posts now or something?[/QUOTE]
Obama's biggest problem is he has yet to see a bill he doesn't like. He has not vetoed a single bill that has come to his desk. It makes it look to the layman like he is just rubber stamping everything, hoping they will do something.
Alright. Alternate scenario.
Mccaine dies a year in from stress and old age. Palin takes over and I don't even have to go on about how fucked we would be.
[editline]13th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ridge;32756015]Obama's biggest problem is he has yet to see a bill he doesn't like. He has not vetoed a single bill that has come to his desk. It makes it look to the layman like he is just rubber stamping everything, hoping they will do something.[/QUOTE]
He's vetoed like two I think.
[QUOTE=Nikota;32756034]Alright. Alternate scenario.
Mccaine dies a year in from stress and old age. Palin takes over and I don't even have to go on about how fucked we would be.[/QUOTE]
Wow you're not even trying anymore
[QUOTE=Nikota;32756034]Alright. Alternate scenario.
Mccaine dies a year in from stress and old age. Palin takes over and I don't even have to go on about how fucked we would be.
[/QUOTE]
You cannot predict such a cause without some facts/statistics backing it up.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32755666]You're rather apologetic for them. In this very thread you beat around the bush by saying that the Patriot Act was "passed by a bipartisan congress" instead of calling it was it really was: a republican-introduced piece of legislation signed by a republican president.
Yes, Obama is an asshole for extending it, but what do you think would have happened if he didn't? The GOP and conservative media would be all over him for being soft on terror or something.[/QUOTE]
everything in this post is fine except the point about justifying the extension of the patriot act
I like obama overall, but there's no doubt that him extending the patriot act is inexcusable
[QUOTE=areolop;32756059]You cannot predict such a cause without some facts/statistics backing it up.[/QUOTE]
And I don't have to because it hasn't and wont happened.
[QUOTE=Nikota;32756034]Alright. Alternate scenario.
Mccaine dies a year in from stress and old age. Palin takes over and I don't even have to go on about how fucked we would be.[/QUOTE]
All fine and dandy, but we are in this reality, where Obama won. We are discussing his actions, not what might have happened in the Marvel universe.
Here are MY questions:
First, how is the President proposing a bill? I'm probably wrong, but it was my understanding that as a member of the Executive Branch, he had no power to the Legislative or Judicial Branches, and therefore couldn't make bills.
Second, what about the bill are the Republicans objecting to? I read the overview, though not the actual 200 page document, and it all looked pretty solid. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it, and am wondering what asinine thing the Republicans rejected to that will make my head explode, or if they're once more trying to torpedo America in order to make Obama look bad and rule over the cinders in the upcoming election.
[QUOTE=Ridge;32756110]All fine and dandy, but we are in this reality, where Obama won. We are discussing his actions, not what might have happened in the Marvel universe.[/QUOTE]
Which is why I didn't go further into it by stating that I didn't have to. Post is above. Was posted at the same time so its understandable that you didnt see it.
[QUOTE=Ridge;32756110]All fine and dandy, but we are in this reality, where Obama won. We are discussing his actions, not what might have happened in the Marvel universe.[/QUOTE]
Bruce Banner for 2008 would've been much better over-all.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;32756128]Bruce Banner for 2008 would've been much better over-all.[/QUOTE]
I heard that he has some anger issues though. Wouldn't want a person like that kissing my baby.
[QUOTE=Nikota;32756121]Which is why I didn't go further into it by stating that I didn't have to. Post is above. Was posted at the same time so its understandable that you didnt see it.[/QUOTE]
You were trying to lead into it, though. Diverting the discussion.
And Obama is going to get voted out of office and replaced with a republican because of ignorant, impatient fucks who think that he's not even trying when, in fact, the republicans don't even want to work with him.
[QUOTE=Nikota;32756139]I heard that he has some anger issues though. Wouldn't want a person like that kissing my baby.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, foreign relations are also hard to maintain when you threaten to smash everything, but hopefully the Senate and Congress wouldn't do anything to piss him off.
[QUOTE=Ridge;32756172]You were trying to lead into it, though. Diverting the discussion.[/QUOTE]
If I wanted to debate about an alternate scenario 2011, I would have started a thread in the debate forums. But this threads not for that.
[QUOTE=Ridge;32754936]
The bill hasn't been killed, it hasn't been destroyed, they just want to take part in the sole job they have, which is to discuss a bill at hand before blindly voting it. They're not as dim-witted as people like Nancy Pelosi, who believe that we should pass a bill into law, then find out what the hell it does.[/QUOTE]
It's a republican filibuster. It's as good as dead.
It's just strikes me as so fucking funny that the GOP is willing to negotiate (see: demand everything and give nothing) now that they feel they have a shot at office next year. What about the Deficit ceiling? They weren't willing to give ANY ground until the last 12 hours, even after the democrats had given them what they want. They are voting against this bill to be spiteful against Obama, and not based on any sort of economic merit. This is the poorest excuse of a Congress that has ever shamed this country, and I'll be there with a torch and pitchfork running them out of town with everyone else.
I'm beginning to think there is no future for america.
[QUOTE=darkedone02;32756224]I'm beginning to think there is no future for america.[/QUOTE]
oh you are just no-
Welcome to mainstream America.
[QUOTE=darkedone02;32756224]I'm beginning to think there is no future for america.[/QUOTE]
Well then you had better just log off, get in your jammies and turn on the disney channel, then.
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