I'd just like to imagine Obama shouting at the Senate, disregarding taste and political rhetoric; telling them how tired he is about the lack of cooperation.
That would be entertaining to watch.
[QUOTE=Ridge;32756318]Well then you had better just log off, get in your jammies and turn on the disney channel, then.[/QUOTE]
I was really rooting for you up until this point
[QUOTE=Mad Chatter;32756338]I'd just like to imagine Obama shouting at the Senate, disregarding taste and political rhetoric; telling them how tired he is about the lack of cooperation.
That would be entertaining to watch.[/QUOTE]
I'd rather see him explain how he plans to pay for all this but to each his own
Ok, I've read over an awful lot of the Jobs bill and I'm ready to give my thoughts.
The best way to talk about something as complicated as the economy is to always start from scratch.
Our problem is unemployment. My argument relies on the belief that jobs are created when businesses grow. There are three key elements to what I am about to say. The Government, the Small businesses, and the Large businesses.
My view is that the relationship between these three elements of the economy should look like a situation in nature. The Government should take on the role of a caring mother who protects her children, the small businesses, for if they are left helpless and alone they would be quickly devoured by the large businesses. The Government provides encouragement and incentives for the smaller businesses to grow and become larger businesses. The very act of the small businesses growing would create jobs as more people would be needed to perform the tasks required of the business. Once the small business has grown, it does not need the care and protection it was once given. Like a human being, it can make its own decisions and experience its own consequences. One assumption I make (perhaps wrongly) is that when a large business closes for good, its hollow remains are then either spread out amongst the larger businesses, fueling them further; OR several small businesses can rise from the ashes of the fallen, eager to grow play a part in society. Either way, the jobs lost in the death of large business would be regained in the life transferred to other large business or in the life sparked in new, small businesses.
Now, this model seems all fine and dandy. (Of course I think that, I made it!) But let's apply it to our current problems and see what happens.
One problem we face is outsourcing. This is almost exclusively done by large business as a small business would normally not have the resources needed to pull off the move overseas in the first place. (I hope.) Large companies outsource because it is cheaper to make in China and sell in America than it is to make in America and sell in America. My opinion is that a viable solution would be a combination of incentives to benefit companies that stay in America and penalties to those that outsource heavily.
Be clear on this, however: A balance must be kept. I see it as a fatal error to overtax large businesses while giving too much assisstance to small businesses. If this occurs, then the small business owner would see no reason to expand, thus no jobs will be created. On the other hand, if large businesses are treated too lenient and small businesses are neglected, then oligopolies and monopolies may occur, putting the consumer at the mercy of the supplier. However, when a healthy balance is stuck, then competition is fierce yet fair, prices will be low which will cause people to spend more which fuels the growth of the economy as a whole.
[B]Now for my verdict on the Jobs Bill.[/B]
I agree with it. According to the sites I've read it makes it easier for small businesses to hire and grow. While the small businesses are slowly hiring and growing, jobs are also provided immediately through improving infrastructure and modernizing schools.
Please reply and tell me what you think. If I am in error (which is likely) please help me correct myself.
EDIT: Wow, this thread was only 2 pages long when I started typing.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32756344]I was really rooting for you up until this point[/QUOTE]
He has somewhat of a point though. Nothing's going to get done if the people aren't willing to do [I]anything[/I] about it.
[QUOTE=Hidole555;32756349]
[B]Now for my verdict on the Jobs Bill.[/B]
I agree with it. According to the sites I've read it makes it easier for small businesses to hire and grow. While the small businesses are slowly hiring and growing, jobs are also provided immediately through improving infrastructure and modernizing schools.
Please reply and tell me what you think. If I am in error (which is likely) please help me correct myself.[/QUOTE]
It truly is a good bill, just some things that need worked out.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;32756354]He has somewhat of a point though. Nothing's going to get done if the people aren't willing to do [I]anything[/I] about it.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but I just honestly don't see any real change coming to America via the current system of politics
The entire system is corrupt and flawed at the foundation, I really only see ways to marginally improve your living standards while getting dominated by the corporations that run the country
It's like being raped in the ass but you have a choice between banana and strawberry scented condoms
[QUOTE=Hidole555;32756349]Ok, I've read over an awful lot of the Jobs bill and I'm ready to give my thoughts.
The best way to talk about something as complicated as the economy is to always start from scratch.
Our problem is unemployment. My argument relies on the belief that jobs are created when businesses grow. There are three key elements to what I am about to say. The Government, the Small businesses, and the Large businesses.
My view is that the relationship between these three elements of the economy should look like a situation in nature. The Government should take on the role of a caring mother who protects her children, the small businesses, for if they are left helpless and alone they would be quickly devoured by the large businesses. The Government provides encouragement and incentives for the smaller businesses to grow and become larger businesses. The very act of the small businesses growing would create jobs as more people would be needed to perform the tasks required of the business. Once the small business has grown, it does not need the care and protection it was once given. Like a human being, it can make its own decisions and experience its own consequences. One assumption I make (perhaps wrongly) is that when a large business closes for good, its hollow remains are then either spread out amongst the larger businesses, fueling them further; OR several small businesses can rise from the ashes of the fallen, eager to grow play a part in society. Either way, the jobs lost in the death of large business would be regained in the life transferred to other large business or in the life sparked in new, small businesses.
Now, this model seems all fine and dandy. (Of course I think that, I made it!) But let's apply it to our current problems and see what happens.
One problem we face is outsourcing. This is almost exclusively done by large business as a small business would normally not have the resources needed to pull off the move overseas in the first place. (I hope.) Large companies outsource because it is cheaper to make in China and sell in America than it is to make in America and sell in America. My opinion is that a viable solution would be a combination of incentives to benefit companies that stay in America and penalties to those that outsource heavily.
Be clear on this, however: A balance must be kept. I see it as a fatal error to overtax large businesses while giving too much assisstance to small businesses. If this occurs, then the small business owner would see no reason to expand, thus no jobs will be created. On the other hand, if large businesses are treated too lenient and small businesses are neglected, then oligopolies and monopolies may occur, putting the consumer at the mercy of the supplier. However, when a healthy balance is stuck, then competition is fierce yet fair, prices will be low which will cause people to spend more which fuels the growth of the economy as a whole.
[B]Now for my verdict on the Jobs Bill.[/B]
I agree with it. According to the sites I've read it makes it easier for small businesses to hire and grow. While the small businesses are slowly hiring and growing, jobs are also provided immediately through improving infrastructure and modernizing schools.
Please reply and tell me what you think. If I am in error (which is likely) please help me correct myself.
EDIT: Wow, this thread was only 2 pages long when I started typing.[/QUOTE]
The problem with trying to bring manufacturing over-seas is that people are too used to cheap goods and CEOs are too used to making lodes of emone to ever bring it back. The reason they get away with such cheap labor in China is because they're not required to pay benefits to those workers like they would be here (assuming any business would bother hiring people part-time to work in a factory, considering most factory jobs almost REQUIRE you to provide SOME sort of benefits due to work conditions).
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32756392]Yeah but I just honestly don't see any real change coming to America via the current system of politics
The entire system is corrupt and flawed at the foundation, I really only see ways to marginally improve your living standards while getting dominated by the corporations that run the country
It's like being raped in the ass but you have a choice between banana and strawberry scented condoms[/QUOTE]
vote all the republicans out, and you'll see a change
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32756392]Yeah but I just honestly don't see any real change coming to America via the current system of politics
The entire system is corrupt and flawed at the foundation, I really only see ways to marginally improve your living standards while getting dominated by the corporations that run the country
It's like being raped in the ass but you have a choice between banana and strawberry scented condoms[/QUOTE]
Hence the "put on your jammies and turn on Disney Channel" statement, I assume. One could do that, or take to the streets as the Occupy movement has. Even if the Occupy movement has no concrete list of demands as of yet, they're getting the message across that "shit's fucked up, yo" and "SOMETHING needs to be done".
Not a whole lot to work with ATM, but in time, who knows.
Not saying that the only option you have is to join the Occupy movement, but it might be marginally more effective than writing your congressman at present, given the corruption and all.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;32756398]The problem with trying to bring manufacturing over-seas is that people are too used to cheap goods and CEOs are too used to making lodes of emone to ever bring it back. The reason they get away with such cheap labor in China is because they're not required to pay benefits to those workers like they would be here (assuming any business would bother hiring people part-time to work in a factory, considering most factory jobs almost REQUIRE you to provide SOME sort of benefits due to work conditions).[/QUOTE]
We should have tariffs on import goods and put an additional tax on businesses that use foreign labor
Operating in multiple countries is fine and to be encouraged, but outsourcing to slave labor in China seems like something that should be penalized
This is just off the top of my head though so its probably really stupid (?)
[QUOTE=JDK721;32756405]vote all the republicans out, and you'll see a change[/QUOTE]
That's maybe possible in the Senate in some odd happenstance. But the house? Never.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;32756416]Hence the "put on your jammies and turn on Disney Channel" statement, I assume. One could do that, or take to the streets as the Occupy movement has. Even if the Occupy movement has no concrete list of demands as of yet, they're getting the message across that "shit's fucked up, yo" and "SOMETHING needs to be done".
Not a whole lot to work with ATM, but in time, who knows.[/QUOTE]
The #OccupyWallStreet movement is awesome and is definitely inspiring hope, but I still think it will only help to bring awareness about what is going on. When push comes to shove and people are faced with the prospect of restructuring the country I think they'll be a bit more than reluctant and in the end we'll just have a nation full of protesters who aren't accomplishing anything.
[QUOTE=JDK721;32756405]vote all the republicans out, and you'll see a change[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Nikota;32756435]That's maybe possible in the Senate in some odd happenstance. But the house? Never.[/QUOTE]
ughhhh x 2
[QUOTE=Ridge;32755726][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act[/url]
Like I said. Plenty of blame to go around.[/QUOTE]
But who was it who voted on it in the House?
Yes, Democrats and Republicans signed on, but out of the 66 'no' votes, 62 were Democrats.
Source: [url]http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll398.xml[/url]
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32756446]ughhhh x 2[/QUOTE]
alright, so you're saying that voting republicans out is a dumb idea, and yet you're whining that change will never happen
cool
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32756418]We should have tariffs on import goods and put an additional tax on businesses that use foreign labor
Operating in multiple countries is fine and to be encouraged, but outsourcing to slave labor in China seems like something that should be penalized
This is just off the top of my head though so its probably really stupid (?)[/QUOTE]
Tariffs are a bad idea in my opinion. Once you put a tariff on imported goods, the people whom you export to will probably put a tariff on you. Economic trade comes to a standstill, financial chaos ensues.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32756418]We should have tariffs on import goods and put an additional tax on businesses that use foreign labor
Operating in multiple countries is fine and to be encouraged, but outsourcing to slave labor in China seems like something that should be penalized
This is just off the top of my head though so its probably really stupid (?)[/QUOTE]
We definitely need more incentives to bring manufacturing back to the States, yes, but it's hard to say how to do it. Anything that hints at saving the corporations money would have to have a HELL of an impact to make them second-guess using human robots over-seas over bringing more jobs back home. Taxing the fuck out of companies that use foreign labor would mean one hell of a tax to make it enough of a deterrent compared to paying someone even minimum wage in a factory, with benefits.
[QUOTE=JDK721;32756468]alright, so you're saying that voting republicans out is a dumb idea, and yet you're whining that change will never happen
cool[/QUOTE]
One party in control of everything, what an ingenius idea
Also thanks @ Hidole and Zero
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32756486]One party in control of everything, what an ingenius idea[/QUOTE]
where the fuck did I say or imply that we should have only one party in control of everything?
your reading comprehension is terrible
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32756486]One party in control of everything, what an ingenius idea
Also thanks @ Hidole and Zero[/QUOTE]
I never really explained anything in my post other then one day it might be possible. In 50 years, America might have a multiple party system and it might not. No telling what's going to happen.
Seriously Kopimi. Take a drink or something and calm down.
[QUOTE=JDK721;32756505]where the fuck did I say or imply that we should have only one party in control of everything?
your reading comprehension is terrible[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JDK721;32756405]vote all the republicans out, and you'll see a change[/QUOTE]
Because obviously there's no implication of that here at all considering the overwhelming influence of the [b]2 party system[/b] that we have here
Uh oh I think I hit my JDK reply limit, try again tomorrow
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32756527]Because obviously there's no implication of that here at all considering the overwhelming influence of the [b]2 party system[/b] that we have here[/QUOTE]
yes because obviously there couldn't possibly be any other parties besides the democratic one
there's no implication at all. all I said was to vote out republicans, who are to blame for most of our issues mind you
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32756527]Uh oh I think I hit my JDK reply limit, try again tomorrow[/QUOTE]
what's your problem
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32756486]One party in control of everything, what an ingenius idea
Also thanks @ Hidole and Zero[/QUOTE]
The Democratic Party houses so many factions that it's almost inconsequential whether or not they have a majority. People often look at the Republican and Democratic parties on equal footing, but the fact of the matter is when push comes to shove most GOP representatives vote on party lines solidly, but Democrats do not.
Additionally, the GOP houses far less ideologically diverse factions, containing Fiscal Conservatives (Republican Study Committee), Social Conservatives (Tea Party Caucus), and Right Libertarians (Liberty Caucus).
The Democrats by comparison house Fiscal Conservatives that are socially Liberal (Blue Dog Coalition), Centrists (New Democratic Coalition), Progressives/Social Democrats (Congressional Progressive Caucus), and Left Libertarians (Democratic Freedom Caucus).
When you get down to it, we'd be better off with no GOP and dividing the Democrats up into the different parties that make it up, with a Progressive Party, Moderate Party, etc.
Wow the bill would of supported the American people so much and in a time when its needed but the Republicans are too narrow sited and stupid to allow such a thing.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32756486]One party in control of everything, what an ingenius idea
Also thanks @ Hidole and Zero[/QUOTE]
Not every single democrat agrees with each other you know. Neither do republicans but the ones in congress now seem to march in lockstep.
[editline]13th October 2011[/editline]
The GOP as moved so far to the right over the past 30 years I don't see how you could say both parties are the same.
The reason the republicans are blocking it is because it still makes rich people... i mean jobcreators... pay taxes.
[QUOTE=Ridge;32755726][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act[/url]
Like I said. Plenty of blame to go around.[/QUOTE]
Republicans: Yeas - 211, Nays - 3
Democrats: Yeas - 145, Nays - 62
Republican support: 98.6%
Democratic support: 70%
Introduced by a republican, signed by a republican president.
Yeah, GOP gets a tad more blame here.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32757630]Republicans: Yeas - 211, Nays - 3
Democrats: Yeas - 145, Nays - 62
Republican support: 98.6%
Democratic support: 70%
Introduced by a republican, signed by a republican president.
Yeah, GOP gets a tad more blame here.[/QUOTE]
The Democrats still deserve to be blamed as well.
Just because the majority of Yeas were Republican doesn't invalidate the fact that a majority of Democrats voted to extend the Patriot act.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32757667]The Democrats still deserve to be blamed as well.
Just because the majority of Yeas were Republican doesn't invalidate the fact that a majority of Democrats voted to extend the Patriot act.[/QUOTE]
Well yeah, I even called out Obama for extending it.
Doesn't change the fact that it was very nearly unanimously supported by the republicans
I'm not an american and as such don't know too much about american politics, but am i right in thinking republicans are like a whiny child who doesn't get picked to be the leader in whatever game they are playing so they throw a tantrum and ruin the fun for everyone else?
"NO, we are NOT doing this. If we can't be incharge we won't agree with you on anything!"
The sooner the Republicans are forcibly-rehabilitated, the sooner they can stop filibustering every single effort of the President to reinvigorate the economy and prevent a new Depression. It's almost as if the Republicans themselves are like terrorists, except they spread poverty and private interests instead of terror and destruction. A nasty Horseman either way.
There should be a system in place to prevent the abuse of filibusters and vetos; whereby after a set amount of filibusters, perhaps just the one, the Senators involved will be unable to participate in a filibuster, with illegal involvement in a filibuster meaning incarceration.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
