Richard Dawkins announced as 2012 recipient for ‘Services to Humanism’ - Polidicks

Elevators aren't the best places to be asking those things. She was alone in the elevator with that guy. Also, didn't that same guy approach her earlier, and she specifically told people not to hit on her? It's been a while since the incident and I don't really remember the details. The fact of the matter is, she felt uncomfortable, and being alone in an elevator with someone after already having to put up with getting hit on makes it fairly understandable. All she did was make a personal blog post/video about it, and people tried to belittle her feelings by saying that she shouldn't complain because there are worse things happening in the world (which is always a shitty argument). This is probably the only thing I've ever disagreed with Dawkins on.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288354]Yes I'm sure the man just wanted a nice conversation, totally wasn't an obvious sexual advance. [editline]11th June 2012[/editline] I highly doubt his motives were pure considering how sexualised women are in our society.[/QUOTE] You know how circular your logic is? The man's motives couldn't have been pure because women are sexualized. | V The man's impure motives show how sexualized women are in society. | V The man's motives couldn't have been pure because women are sexualized.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;36288389]Are all sexual advances objectifying women? that's about as polite as you can get without being hugh Grant or her throwing herself onto you.[/QUOTE] When it's someone you know, or is clearly wanting the same thing, no. However a random advance in an elevator is definitely evidence of some kind of objectifying.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288413]When it's someone you know, or is clearly wanting the same thing, no. However a random advance in an elevator is definitely evidence of some kind of objectifying.[/QUOTE] How, exactly? How is someone asking a person if they want to have sex sexual objectification?

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288354]Yes I'm sure the man just wanted a nice conversation, totally wasn't an obvious sexual advance.[/QUOTE] There's nothing wrong with making a sexual advance as long as nobody is harassed and both parties understand the word "no." This wasn't in a workplace or professional situation, it was in a convention of likeminded people there to meet other likeminded people. Asking a woman out is not misogyny, nor is being attracted to one. [editline]11th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288413]When it's someone you know, or is clearly wanting the same thing, no. However a random advance in an elevator is definitely evidence of some kind of objectifying.[/QUOTE] So how the fuck do you date, exactly? Do you only date friends you've known for years or something? How exactly are you supposed to date someone you're attracted to if you're not allowed to talk to them? Do you stalk them for a few weeks first, considering being forward is apparently bad?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36288429]There's nothing wrong with making a sexual advance as long as nobody is harassed and both parties understand the word "no." This wasn't in a workplace or professional situation, it was in a convention of likeminded people there to meet other likeminded people. Asking a woman out is not misogyny, nor is being attracted to one.[/QUOTE] Yeah but come on, asking a random woman to your apartment who you just got into an elevator with is pretty sexist and demeaning to women, like hes assuming all women are out to fuck. [editline]11th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;36288429] So how the fuck do you date, exactly? Do you only date friends you've known for years or something? How exactly are you supposed to date someone you're attracted to if you're not allowed to talk to them? Do you stalk them for a few weeks first, considering being forward is apparently bad?[/QUOTE] Talking to her is one thing, just randomly asking her if she wants to go to his apartment is another.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288478]Yeah but come on, asking a random woman to your apartment who you just got into an elevator with is pretty sexist and demeaning to women, like hes assuming all women are out to fuck.[/QUOTE] Where the fuck are you getting this from? You're assuming that this is what the guy is thinking; For all we know, he may have been a feminist himself, and simply wanted to have sex with Rebecca because he found her interesting and attractive.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288478]Yeah but come on, asking a random woman to your apartment who you just got into an elevator with is pretty sexist and demeaning to women, like hes assuming all women are out to fuck.[/QUOTE] I would say viewing women as being capable of wanting to fuck is a lot less demeaning than viewing them as creatures who need to maintain some fake purity.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288478]Yeah but come on, asking a random woman to your apartment who you just got into an elevator with is pretty sexist and demeaning to women, like hes assuming all women are out to fuck.[/QUOTE] Come on, asking a random [x] to your apartment who you just got into an elevator with is pretty sexist and demeaning to [y], like [x] assuming all [y] are out to fuck.

[QUOTE=Patriarch;36288510]Where the fuck are you getting this from? You're assuming that this is what the guy is thinking; For all we know, he may have been a feminist himself, and simply wanted to have sex with Rebecca because he found her interesting and attractive.[/QUOTE] Uhhh, assuming the guy wanted to have sex with her isn't really helping your side of the argument. Sexual advances in an [I]enclosed box[/I] are not a good idea.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288478]Yeah but come on, asking a random woman to your apartment who you just got into an elevator with is pretty sexist and demeaning to women, like hes assuming all women are out to fuck. [editline]11th June 2012[/editline] Talking to her is one thing, just randomly asking her if she wants to go to his apartment is another.[/QUOTE] Consensual and casual sex happens all the time, even when you live in the Bible Belt. Two people find eachother attractive, they have sex. It happens in bars, clubs, hotels, between teenagers, it's everywhere. Women sometimes invite men over, men sometimes invite women over. This woman was just sensitive and took the invitation too far.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288478]Yeah but come on, asking a random woman to your apartment who you just got into an elevator with is pretty sexist and demeaning to women, like hes assuming all women are out to fuck.[/QUOTE] No it isn't. A motherfucker [I]asked[/I], she presumably said "no," and they both went on with their lives. I knew my wife for like five minutes before I asked her out. Had I not, we wouldn't have had time to get to know one another because we would have both gone our separate ways, never to see each other again. I didn't assume she was at that particular library with a stack of books because she was horny out of her mind for my mexican man-meat. I thought she was smart and pretty and I wanted to know her. Dating is all about fucking taking chances and being forward. There's nothing sexist about it.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36288514]I would say viewing women as being capable of wanting to fuck is a lot less demeaning than viewing them as creatures who need to maintain some fake purity.[/QUOTE] Yeah but assuming the random woman in the elevator who you haven't even spoken to wants to fuck you is dumb and probably sexist

[QUOTE=MisterMooth;36288540]Uhhh, assuming the guy wanted to have sex with her isn't really helping your side of the argument. Asking for sex in an [I]enclosed box[/I] is not a good idea.[/QUOTE] 1. How is it not? I'm pretty sure that he wanted to have sex with her, and so am defending him from people who are calling his actions unjustified and sexist, or even misogynistic. 2. Some people are not so spatiality aware as others; some may seen an elevator as the same as a beach, whilst to others the closed space can make it feel as if people are being pushed towards you. Ultimately, it's hard to tell how others feel in a situation, and as such people go on what they themselves know. [QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288570]Yeah but assuming the random woman in the elevator who you haven't even spoken to wants to fuck you is dumb and probably sexist[/QUOTE] Where the fuck are you getting this from? Stop putting thoughts into the man's head!

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288570]Yeah but assuming the random woman in the elevator who you haven't even spoken to wants to fuck you is dumb and probably sexist[/QUOTE] So is it sexist if it happens the other way around?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36288554]No it isn't. A motherfucker [I]asked[/I], she presumably said "no," and they both went on with their lives. I knew my wife for like five minutes before I asked her out. Had I not, we wouldn't have had time to get to know one another because we would have both gone our separate ways, never to see each other again. I didn't assume she was at that particular library with a stack of books because she was horny out of her mind for my mexican man-meat. I thought she was smart and pretty and I wanted to know her. Dating is all about fucking taking chances and being forward. There's nothing sexist about it.[/QUOTE] Yeah but I'd assume you at least talked to her for a bit before you asked her out, at least got some indication that she might want to go out with you.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288570]Yeah but assuming the random woman in the elevator who you haven't even spoken to wants to fuck you is dumb and probably sexist[/QUOTE] Asking someone out =/= thinking they fuck on the first date.

[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;36288583]So is it sexist if it happens the other way around?[/QUOTE] No because men aren't sexualised by society.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288601]No because men aren't sexualised by society.[/QUOTE] So what you're saying is that it's sexist [I]because[/I] it's sexist. I understand now!

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288601]No because men aren't sexualised by society.[/QUOTE] [X] isn't as bad as [Y]. Therefore, [X] is acceptable. You have some of the worst arguments I have ever seen.

[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;36288610]So what you're saying is that it's sexist [I]because[/I] it's sexist. I understand now![/QUOTE] No I'm saying its sexist because of the way women are treated in society.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288594]Yeah but I'd assume you at least talked to her for a bit before you asked her out, at least got some indication that she might want to go out with you.[/QUOTE] We spoke very little, in retrospect, and there was very little sexual tension in that time. Shit, I'm still friends with people I asked out only to not-have-sex with. Just because sex doesn't become a prospect does not mean two human beings cannot relate to one another.

[QUOTE=Patriarch;36288581]1. How is it not? I'm pretty sure that he wanted to have sex with her, and so am defending him from people who are calling his actions unjustified and sexist, or even misogynistic. 2. Some people are not so spatiality aware as others; some may seen an elevator as the same as a beach, whilst to others the closed space can make it feel as if people are being pushed towards you. Ultimately, it's hard to tell how others feel in a situation, and as such people go on what they themselves know.[/QUOTE] I don't think the man was sexist or misogynistic, he just didn't go about things the right way. All I've been saying is that it's understandable that she felt uncomfortable, and her feelings should be respected. By just making a little personal video about it and saying "please don't do this guys, it's uncomfortable" doesn't mean she should be attacked because there are worse things in the world. I think [I]that[/I] is fairly sexist, however, since it's just privileged males trying to tell a woman how she should feel.

[QUOTE=Patriarch;36288625][X] isn't as bad as [Y]. Therefore, [X] is acceptable. You have some of the worst arguments I have ever seen.[/QUOTE] I didn't say it was acceptable

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288648]No I'm saying its sexist because of the way women are treated in society.[/QUOTE] Because women are treated as the sexual counterpart to men? Because, you know, they are. That's sort of how heterosexual coupling works.

[QUOTE=Patriarch;36288510]Where the fuck are you getting this from? You're assuming that this is what the guy is thinking; For all we know, he may have been a feminist himself, and simply wanted to have sex with Rebecca because he found her interesting and attractive.[/QUOTE] A feminist respects someone's right to their personal space and empathises with their desire not to feel threatened. Don't ask people out when they're trapped in a box with you. It's usually awkward at most for guys (and probably barely ever happens), but can be threatening to women (and there's a much higher chance of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauma_trigger"]triggering a woman[/URL], considering [URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/14/1-in-5-women-report-sexual-assault"]nearly 1 in 5 women[/URL] have suffered rape or attempted rape.) I don't think Dawkins knew this, but he also did the whole "people elsewhere have it much worse, so you should shut up" schtick, which flies with barely anyone in other situations (starving african kids is not an argument here etc.)

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288648]No I'm saying its sexist because of the way women are treated in society.[/QUOTE] I'm glad we agree, because [I]you just reworded what I said[/I]

[QUOTE=Turnips5;36288676]A feminist respects someone's right to their personal space and empathises with their desire not to feel threatened. Don't ask people out when they're trapped in a box with you. It's usually awkward at most for guys (and probably barely ever happens), but can be threatening to women (and there's a much higher chance of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauma_trigger]triggering a woman[/url], considering [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/14/1-in-5-women-report-sexual-assault]nearly 1 in 5 women[/url] have suffered rape or attempted rape.[/QUOTE] While I certainly respect the feelings of rape victims, the world cannot grind to a halt for fear of something triggering them. It's a shitty situation to be in, I'm well aware, but it's not the rest of the world that has to recover from it. Given the choice between openess and forwardness being the norm and everyone being quiet, introverted and sexually repressed out of respect for those victims, I'm going to choose openness and forwardness and apologize later if it becomes a problem. You can't expect everyone to stop moving forward in their lives because they might step on some toes. Just don't be a dick about it when you do.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36288601]No because men aren't sexualised by society.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0O8t4zXQy8[/media] Guess again!

[QUOTE=Stockers678;36288779][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0O8t4zXQy8[/media][/QUOTE] That dude isn't being sexualized. He's just incredibly attractive.