[QUOTE=da space core;50738590]the example you gave was valid because it was very specific. for example, ideas of abortion, over alcohol, etc.
all of islam is very diverse and has no "one set" of rules, and it cannot be treated as such. therefore, naming the entire religion as incompatible is ridiculous.
but yes, certain "sects" of islam (which really, just come down to certain areas with poor socioeconomic conditions) need reform, and that will not be accomplished by isolating them and alienating them from the world.[/QUOTE]
You are very mistaken there. Islam follows one book (seen as the words of god), written by one man (seen as ideal role model). It encompasses every single aspect of life, government, etc.
I don't know where you get this idea that Islam is all fine and dandy and only some very small minorities are fundamentalists.
Maybe this will shed some more light on why attacks like these happen because of Islam:
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/yMPuliX.jpg[/IMG]
Those are some pretty huge "sects" you've got there.
[QUOTE=da space core;50738590]the example you gave was valid because it was very specific. for example, ideas of abortion, over alcohol, etc.
all of islam is very diverse and has no "one set" of rules, and it cannot be treated as such. therefore, naming the entire religion as incompatible is ridiculous.
but yes, certain "sects" of islam (which really, just come down to certain areas with poor socioeconomic conditions) need reform, and that will not be accomplished by isolating them and alienating them from the world.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you and honestly, it gets irritating when people blame "islam" (which has about as much meaning as "christianity" with all its splintered followers) as the sole cause of these kind of issues when other factors like culture, upbringing, social attitudes etc play into it, but I think that who harbour these harmful sentiments need to learn to put them aside and tolerate others or be put down. Integration is possible but those who refuse to do so should be forced to deal with it.
[editline]19th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=orgornot;50738628]You are very mistaken there. Islam follows one book (seen as the words of god), written by one man (seen as ideal role model). It encompasses every single aspect of life, government, etc.
I don't know where you get this idea that Islam is all fine and dandy and only some very small minorities are fundamentalists.
Maybe this will shed some more light on why attacks like these happen because of Islam:
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/yMPuliX.jpg[/IMG]
Those are some pretty huge "sects" you've got there.[/QUOTE]
You do realise there's around 30,000 different sects of Christianity, right? Which is supposed to be based around a single book, though admittedly that's been shaken up a little over the centuries. But fundamentalist christianity and fundamentalist islam are pretty damn similar. I think the issue with "islam" is more regards to culture, geographic location and other environmental factors.
[QUOTE=orgornot;50738628]You are very mistaken there. Islam follows one book (seen as the words of god), written by one man (seen as ideal role model). It encompasses every single aspect of life, government, etc.
I don't know where you get this idea that Islam is all fine and dandy and only some very small minorities are fundamentalists.
Maybe this will shed some more light on why attacks like these happen because of Islam:
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/yMPuliX.jpg[/IMG]
Those are some pretty huge "sects" you've got there.[/QUOTE]
last time you posted this someone asked for source because the url on the bottom is 404 now, and i've still yet to see a source for this info.
[quote]Integration is possible but those who refuse to do so should be forced to deal with it.[/quote]
uhh no they should just leave. if you don't want to follow a secular law where people don't just get stabbed for dressing differently, you should not be "forced to deal with it", you should be forced to get the fuck out back to your shit hole.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;50738664]uhh no they should just leave. if you don't want to follow a secular law where people don't just get stabbed for dressing differently, you should not be "forced to deal with it", you should be forced to get the fuck out back to your shit hole.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I should've clarified my meaning. If you can't tolerate secular laws and act against them then you better deal with the consequences of them, be they imprisonment or deportation or whatever.
[QUOTE=Deri102;50738506]ISIS is always related but mentioning them or taking their claims seriously at every attack is giving way too much credit to a disorganized, barbaric shit-show of a group.[/QUOTE]
Or you know... you can make fun of them and disarm their terror.
[QUOTE] Im calling its isis, or isis claims it
double or nothing this time.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=TheJoey;50738664]last time you posted this someone asked for source because the url on the bottom is 404 now, and i've still yet to see a source for this info.[/QUOTE]
definitely based on this considering the url
[url]http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/[/url]
[QUOTE=TheJoey;50738664]last time you posted this someone asked for source because the url on the bottom is 404 now, and i've still yet to see a source for this info.
uhh no they should just leave. if you don't want to follow a secular law where people don't just get stabbed for dressing differently, you should not be "forced to deal with it", you should be forced to get the fuck out back to your shit hole.[/QUOTE]
This is the source
[url]http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf[/url]
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;50738708]This is the source
[url]http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf[/url][/QUOTE]
sorry, last time i checked this it wasn't working. thanks.
[QUOTE=orgornot;50738628]You are very mistaken there. Islam follows one book (seen as the words of god), written by one man (seen as ideal role model). It encompasses every single aspect of life, government, etc.
I don't know where you get this idea that Islam is all fine and dandy and only some very small minorities are fundamentalists.
Maybe this will shed some more light on why attacks like these happen because of Islam:
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/yMPuliX.jpg[/IMG]
Those are some pretty huge "sects" you've got there.[/QUOTE]
the funny thing is I expected you to post that,
I reversed google image searched that picture before,[B] turns out that picture does not account for any muslims living in the west.[/B]
kind of a big thing to leave out, eh?
here is the full study
[url]http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf[/url]
so lets start breaking apart your nonsense, shall we?
[IMG]https://i.snag.gy/Jprg2t.jpg[/IMG]
already we are seeing that depending on where we look, we get widely different interpretations of sharia law
[IMG]https://i.snag.gy/oBOrn7.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.snag.gy/i2PfWj.jpg[/IMG]
oh my, muslims in more stable countries do not condone violence, who would have thought?
[IMG]https://i.snag.gy/vQsAw2.jpg[/IMG]
and many muslims fear terrorism and do not condone it, what a surprise.
and before someone posts that, yes, the views of LGBT are still way behind, remember that even in the US, accepting the LGBT community is a brand new thing for the US.
[IMG]http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/graph.png[/IMG]
so of course in countries with governments which actively outlaw being gay and promote harsh propaganda and punishments against it, are the views more conservative.
and once again my conclusion, the socioeconomic conditions, largely caused by the governments/dictatorships overruling these countries, are causing these issues.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;50738734]sorry, last time i checked this it wasn't working. thanks.[/QUOTE]
Hefty read, i salute you if you make it through and post your results.
[QUOTE=GordonZombie;50738634]You do realise there's around 30,000 different sects of Christianity, right? Which is supposed to be based around a single book, though admittedly that's been shaken up a little over the centuries. But fundamentalist christianity and fundamentalist islam are pretty damn similar. I think the issue with "islam" is more regards to culture, geographic location and other environmental factors.[/QUOTE]
1.1 [B]billion[/B] muslims think sharia should rule. That is not a "small minority". That is in fact, a [B]majority[/B] who believe in a system of government incompatible with western values.
584 million (more than 30%) believe people should be [B]killed[/B] for leaving Islam. Still think these are just lovely people no different from us?
Do you still want these people pouring into your country?
Attacks like this knife attack are just a taste of things yet to come.
You will not find similar numbers in Christianity because it has been forced to modernize (except maybe those coming from Middle East/Africa).
[QUOTE=da space core;50738736]the funny thing is I expected you to post that,
I reversed google image searched that picture before,[B] turns out that picture does not account for any muslims living in the west.[/B]
kind of a big thing to leave out, eh?
here is the full study
[url]http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf[/url]
so lets start breaking apart your nonsense, shall we?
[IMG]https://i.snag.gy/Jprg2t.jpg[/IMG]
already we are seeing that depending on where we look, we get widely different interpretations of sharia law
[IMG]https://i.snag.gy/oBOrn7.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.snag.gy/i2PfWj.jpg[/IMG]
oh my, muslims in more stable countries do not condone violence, who would have thought?
[IMG]https://i.snag.gy/vQsAw2.jpg[/IMG]
and many muslims fear terrorism and do not condone it, what a surprise.
and before someone posts that, yes, the views of LGBT are still way behind, remember that even in the US, accepting the LGBT community is a brand new thing for the US.
[IMG]http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/graph.png[/IMG]
so of course in countries with governments which actively outlaw being gay and promote harsh propaganda and punishments against it, are the views more conservative.
and once again my conclusion, the socioeconomic conditions, largely caused by the governments/dictatorships overruling these countries, are causing these issues.[/QUOTE]
Nobody considers the US the pinnacle of western leftist beliefs though...
[editline]19th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=orgornot;50738747]
You will not find similar numbers in Christianity because it has been forced to modernize (except maybe those coming from Middle East/Africa).[/QUOTE]
romans made sure of that. Kinda scary really i woudnt wish to the muslims what the romans did to the christians to pacify them...
[QUOTE=orgornot;50738747]Do you still want these people pouring into your country?
Attacks like this knife attack are just a taste of things yet to come.[/QUOTE]
you will never be taken seriously if you use rhetoric like that of a trump speech
[editline]19th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;50738749]Nobody considers the US the pinnacle of western leftist beliefs though...
[/QUOTE]
I agree with your point, but some folks do. its important to keep everything in perspective.
just a few decades ago, in the US were protests for black people to be allowed to go to the same restaurants, schools, bathrooms, and so on as everyone else. its important to understand that all societies can modernize.
[QUOTE=da space core;50738736]oh my, muslims in more stable countries do not condone violence, who would have thought?[/QUOTE]
Yea, not like Europe just let in a massive amount of people from less stable countries in a hardly to not at all regulated fashion.
Notice how Europe is where most of these attacks are happening.
[QUOTE=da space core;50738762]just a few decades ago, in the US were protests for black people to be allowed to go to the same restaurants, schools, bathrooms, and so on as everyone else. its important to understand that all societies can modernize.[/QUOTE]
I mean shit a [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/18/us/cleveland-mississippi-school-district-desegregate.html?_r=0"]school near me was just ordered to desegregate[/URL]. All that is not that far behind us.
Maniacs. Islamists are the biggest blight on and threat to Western Europe at the moment.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;50738745]Hefty read, i salute you if you make it through and post your results.[/QUOTE]
i'll have to save it for when i can get through a big chunk of it but trying to understand this culture is something that mildly interests me. from what i can understand sans this document so far is this:
a lot of people in the middle east are living and growing up learning that islam is law. in places that do not have a stability and balance between SERIOUS TIME (your job, your family, your religion, your government) and NOT SERIOUS TIME (a happening night life, drinking, relationships, friendships) teens are not growing up to be stable and feel to be missing something in their lives. they are taught then to fill this emptiness with islam, and that islam must be protected by fighting, and that fighting is what will fulfill you. so they put a gun or a bomb in their hands and say "go" and kids go out thinking either it's what they need to do or it's what they want to do. both of these things, unbeknownst to them, are being manipulated by people in bunkers getting (unknown) off of a war of religion they probably do not even care about. years and years of this breeds generations of fighters with a fucked up mindset and eventually some of them become leaders because fear gets votes, and they make stricter non-secular laws, pushing out the more stable and balanced way of living. and now most of the region is just full of fuck.
so when you have someone leave that region for a better life that isn't bombs and shit, theyre not leaving to find, like, feminist values or some shit. they just dont want to die. or they want to avoid criminal punishment. and then they end up in germany or france and it's culture shock. some people have shit beaten into them, and they see a woman not wearing a hijab over their bikini and they act out violently. or they go out and rape, because they were raping freely over there but now here they are and they still gotta rape. and that is why it is very difficult for me to sympathize, because these two cultures do not mesh well, period. when i see these articles about a moroccan guy stabbing women because they're too scantily clad, i think "oh fucking figures"
would this be correct? i know the documents go much deeper or at a wider range than that.
[QUOTE=da space core;50738476]
there are plenty of examples counter to this, we have gone over this countless times.
the only problem is people with your attitude, both here and there in the middle east, refusing to set aside differences and just give up and live a life of ignorance and isolation[/QUOTE]
right so we should allow people of their culture to shame women for being too "risque" because its more PC to be accepting of their culture
i'm putting words into your mouth, but saying that these cultures are perfectly compatible, and people are only being ignorant for not wanting to compromise is essentially saying this.
there are many things that are simply incompatible with the modern west, women's rights, lgbt rights, the way punishment in law is handled, having religion run your community and government, it is not ignorant to know that these are in opposition of what we now believe, and to believe that we can compromise on these core beliefs having been fought for will only set us back 50 years
really the only compromise is if they come into your house, they follow your rules or leave
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;50745622]right so we should allow people of their culture to shame women for being too "risque" because its more PC to be accepting of their culture
i'm putting words into your mouth, but saying that these cultures are perfectly compatible, and people are only being ignorant for not wanting to compromise is essentially saying this.
there are many things that are simply incompatible with the modern west, women's rights, lgbt rights, the way punishment in law is handled, having religion run your community and government, it is not ignorant to know that these are in opposition of what we now believe, and to believe that we can compromise on these core beliefs having been fought for will only set us back 50 years
really the only compromise is if they come into your house, they follow your rules or leave[/QUOTE]
No, you should absolutely not allow people shame women no matter their culture, any refugee or immigrant who comes here should be held to the same laws as anybody else. PC bullshit has nothing to do with this whole thing, it's about human rights not petty political correctness when we're trying to dispute the dehumanizing of muslims :v:
I'm getting sick and tired of reading about bullshit like this seemingly every FUCKING day.
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