Colorado Theater Shooting Victims and Relatives Demand Guns Be Discussed In Upcoming Presidential De - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Neat!;37896712]except it is a hobby i don't need one for self defense, or to start my own revolution (americans can't liberate shit), but i do love to go out in the desert with my dad and shoot at some steel targets[/QUOTE] So you are telling me the second amendment exists for the main purpose of allowing a hobby to exist?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37896733]So you are telling me the second amendment exists for the main purpose of allowing a hobby to exist?[/QUOTE] nope but shooting is a hobby, it's only one of the many uses for a gun

[QUOTE=Neat!;37896748]nope but shooting is a hobby, it's only one of the many uses for a gun[/QUOTE] what uses for a gun are there other than to shoot it

[QUOTE=Neat!;37896748]nope but shooting is a hobby, it's only one of the many uses for a gun[/QUOTE] Yes but having it as a hobby isn't why they originally stuck it in there isn't it?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37896763]Yes but having it as a hobby isn't why they originally stuck it in there isn't it?[/QUOTE] i wasn't implying that it was.... [QUOTE=Bobie;37896760]what uses for a gun are there other than to shoot it[/QUOTE] :I

[QUOTE=Bobie;37896760]what uses for a gun are there other than to shoot it[/QUOTE] What other uses are there to build model airplanes then to make pretty model airplanes? Gunnery skills have become a hobby, something is just meant to past time with others. Seriously, does no one know what a hobby is anymore?

I'm perfectly fine with gun ownership as a hobby myself. I'm disputing the statement that gun control doesn't work at reducing crime.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37896816]I'm perfectly fine with gun ownership as a hobby myself. I'm disputing the statement that gun control doesn't work at reducing crime.[/QUOTE] so far it doesn't work in america, at least with the way we've been doing it not to say that there isn't a way to make it work, then again there is also a way to meet the same end with gun proliferation

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37896679]Except it's not a hobby. The argument many pro-gun users have in this thread is: Now, I wish to ask this: 1. Does increased gun ownership help reduce crime, homicides, rape, etc? 2. Does it actually prevent the government from infringing on your rights?[/QUOTE] It's no less a hobby than any of the other ones I listed. If you go to a dedicated gun forum you'll see a lot of posts about aesthetic customization and wall mounts, same as if you were to go to a model collectors' forum. To answer question #1, yes, gun ownership does reduce crime. Look at Vermont, for example. They have some of the most lax gun laws in the country and they have a very low crime rate. Nobody's gonna break into your house if they think you're armed. When used as a deterrent, guns do reduce crime without actually hurting anybody. Now, on the flip side, Washington DC has a very high crime rate and very restrictive gun laws. If a criminal thinks he can get away with his crime without being hurt, he'll do it. Question #2 is a little bit harder, because there haven't been any instances (that I'm aware of) when the government needed to be brought into line like that. The idea behind it is sound, though; if the people ever need to say "enough is enough" they have the means to back up their words. I truly hope this never has to happen.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37896816] I'm disputing the statement that gun control doesn't work at reducing crime.[/QUOTE] Smart, proactive gun control (More involved licencing, psych exams, better background checks) works great. The stupid shit that we do (banning "assault weapons" that no one uses in crimes anyway, banning "scary" features) doesn't do anything really

[QUOTE=Neat!;37896855]so far it doesn't work in america, at least with the way we've been doing it not to say that there isn't a way to make it work, then again there is also a way to meet the same end with gun proliferation[/QUOTE] it works in every other developed country

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37896975]it works in every other developed country[/QUOTE] because they don't ban guns because they're scary read the post above you, that gets it good

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37896975]it works in every other developed country[/QUOTE] Because every other developed country isnt saturated with the weapons that they ban. [B]Australia bans assault weapons[/B]: Works fine, there weren't any to begin with [B]USA bans assault weapons[/B]: Ample black market, has a neighboring country loaded with them, virtually 0% chance that ATF would be able to confiscate the massive amount of formerly legal ones, massive clusterfuck ensues also this [QUOTE=Neat!;37896987]because they don't ban guns because they're scary read the post above you, that gets it good[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;37897023]Because every other developed country isnt saturated with the weapons that they ban. [B]Australia bans assault weapons[/B]: Works fine, there weren't any to begin with [B]USA bans assault weapons[/B]: Ample black market, has a neighboring country loaded with them, virtually 0% chance that ATF would be able to confiscate the massive amount of formerly legal ones, massive clusterfuck ensues[/QUOTE] Make efforts to reduce them before you ban them outright then?

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37897043]Make efforts to reduce them before you ban them outright then?[/QUOTE] What, a gun collection drive?

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37897043]Make efforts to reduce them before you ban them outright then?[/QUOTE] That would likely have the same effect as outright banning them, really. IE: Law abiding citizens give them up, people who plan to use them for bad shit dont. unless you have some method of making criminals guns vaporize or something

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37897043]Make efforts to reduce them before you ban them outright then?[/QUOTE] criminal buys hi-point for 100 dolla commits crime with it turns it in for 100 dolla buys new hi-point repeat until america yeah that shit doesn't work

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;37896934]Smart, proactive gun control (More involved licencing, psych exams, better background checks) works great. The stupid shit that we do (banning "assault weapons" that no one uses in crimes anyway, banning "scary" features) doesn't do anything really[/QUOTE] Fucking this, so much. The "HURR GIBE GUNZ TO ERRYONE" mentality is quite dumb, but the alternatives usually proposed are utterly asinine.

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;37897218]Fucking this, so much. The "HURR GIBE GUNZ TO ERRYONE" mentality is quite dumb, but the alternatives usually proposed are utterly asinine.[/QUOTE] that's why i've started to not like /k/, everyone thinks that more, less regulated guns is better. i think higher regulated firearms are better, but not the way we've been doing it. the middle ground is always the best, it seems

[QUOTE=Neat!;37897240]the middle ground is always the best, it seems[/QUOTE] [url]http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Balance_fallacy[/url]

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37897248][url]http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Balance_fallacy[/url][/QUOTE] so i'm right [editline]3rd October 2012[/editline] but seriously, this seems like one of the arguments where both of the extremes are pants-on-head retarded

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;37897023]Because every other developed country isnt saturated with the weapons that they ban. [B]Australia bans assault weapons[/B]: Works fine, there weren't any to begin with [B]USA bans assault weapons[/B]: Ample black market, has a neighboring country loaded with them, virtually 0% chance that ATF would be able to confiscate the massive amount of formerly legal ones, massive clusterfuck ensues also this[/QUOTE] If you look at the definition of "assault weapon" most commonly included in the bans, you'll find it includes things like bayonet lugs and pistol grips. Nobody will use an assault rifle with a bayonet to hold up a 7-11 and pistol grips don't somehow make the gun more deadly. The idea of an "assault weapon" ban is really more to appeal to the masses who don't know much about guns other than their own distaste for them.

[QUOTE=Neat!;37897284]but seriously, this seems like one of the arguments where both of the extremes are pants-on-head retarded[/QUOTE] Not really. On one hand you have the NRA with pants firmly lodged on their heads, on the other you have the Brady Campaign that uses staplers to better attach the pants to their skulls, and to make sure to out-retard their opponent.

[QUOTE=Swilly;37896800]What other uses are there to build model airplanes then to make pretty model airplanes? Gunnery skills have become a hobby, something is just meant to past time with others. Seriously, does no one know what a hobby is anymore?[/QUOTE] the statemant was "shooting is a hobby, it's only one of the many uses for a gun" i am inquiring on those other uses other than shooting are you telling me guns do other things than shoot? (pistol whips and shit dont count)

[QUOTE=catbarf;37897077]What, a gun collection drive?[/QUOTE] Limit distribution and manufacturing? End the drug war? [editline]3rd October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Bobie;37897373]the statemant was "shooting is a hobby, it's only one of the many uses for a gun" i am inquiring on those other uses other than shooting are you telling me guns do other things than shoot? (pistol whips and shit dont count)[/QUOTE] Well I guess people collect them like stamps.

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37897385]Limit distribution and manufacturing? End the drug war? [editline]3rd October 2012[/editline] Well I guess people collect them like stamps.[/QUOTE] i collect them like stamps. also, TRY and limit distribution and manufacturing. that will never happen, not in this country.

[QUOTE=Ekalektik_1;37897330]If you look at the definition of "assault weapon" most commonly included in the bans, you'll find it includes things like bayonet lugs and pistol grips. Nobody will use an assault rifle with a bayonet to hold up a 7-11 and pistol grips don't somehow make the gun more deadly. The idea of an "assault weapon" ban is really more to appeal to the masses who don't know much about guns other than their own distaste for them.[/QUOTE] Trust me I know what you mean, we still have our own AWB here in NY THANK GOD FOR THE AWB OR WE WOULD BE HAVING DRIVE BY BAYONETINGS AND GANGSTERS WITH RIFLE GRENADES

[QUOTE=Neat!;37897432]i collect them like stamps. also, TRY and limit distribution and manufacturing. that will never happen, not in this country.[/QUOTE] they said the same thing about landing on the moon

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37897448]they said the same thing about landing on the moon[/QUOTE] but that was something people WANTED to do

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37897385]Limit distribution and manufacturing? End the drug war? [/QUOTE] Im not sure what part of "There are already a fucking dickload of them" you arent understanding There already too many around for a ban to be even remotely effective