Colorado Theater Shooting Victims and Relatives Demand Guns Be Discussed In Upcoming Presidential De - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;37897487]Im not sure what part of "There are already a fucking dickload of them" you arent understanding There already too many around for a ban to be even remotely effective[/QUOTE] they banned slavery despite there being so many slaves and people opposed to banning it

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37897385]Limit distribution and manufacturing? End the drug war? [editline]3rd October 2012[/editline] Well I guess people collect them like stamps.[/QUOTE] that's not really a use for a gun though. i don't know

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37897555]they banned slavery despite there being so many slaves and people opposed to banning it[/QUOTE] ..... what there's.... i don't even know what to say to that slaves aren't always going to be slaves. they're people. a gun is a gun, and it can't be something else.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37897555]they banned slavery despite there being so many slaves and people opposed to banning it[/QUOTE] They started by restricting distribution and selling of slaves.

So in order to cut down on illegal ownership of guns, we'll make it much harder to legally sell or transfer them. Brilliant.

[QUOTE=catbarf;37897682]So in order to cut down on illegal ownership of guns, we'll make it much harder to legally sell or transfer them. Brilliant.[/QUOTE] [img]http://facepunch.com/image.php?u=86903&dateline=1208288658[/img] i've had the opportunity to buy a full-auto mac-11 before. it had the collapsible stock and everything, was post-86 too. not sure where the fuck they got it but they have it. just goes to show that that sort of gun control does fuck all [editline]3rd October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Habsburg;37897662]They started by restricting distribution and selling of slaves.[/QUOTE] guns don't get up and kill their owners

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37897555]they banned slavery despite there being so many slaves and people opposed to banning it[/QUOTE] You called people out on posting logical fallicies and then you post this shit? What the hell dude?

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;37897730]You called people out on posting logical fallicies and then you post this shit? What the hell dude?[/QUOTE] i think he injected too much marijuanas

[QUOTE=Neat!;37897641]slaves aren't always going to be slaves. they're people. a gun is a gun, and it can't be something else.[/QUOTE] point i was making is that at some point in time, a lot of american people saw the right to own slaves as important for them as your right to own guns today that still got banned, so it doesn't excuse the possibility that guns can also be banned

[QUOTE=catbarf;37897682]So in order to cut down on illegal ownership of guns, we'll make it much harder to legally sell or transfer them. Brilliant.[/QUOTE] I bet if the government used the amount of money they spend on the war on drugs every year it would work. [editline]3rd October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;37897763]point i was making is that at some point in time, a lot of american people saw the right to own slaves as important for them as your right to own guns today that still got banned, so it doesn't excuse the possibility that guns can also be banned[/QUOTE] Improbable things happen. Slavery gets abolished, women get the right to vote and man steps on the moon. Lots of people said those things would never happen, yet here we are.

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37897831]I bet if the government used the amount of money they spend on the war on drugs every year it would work.[/QUOTE] You can't just throw money at a problem and expect it to get fixed. Making it hard to transfer guns will lead to a rise in illegal ownership, that's pretty straightforward. If anything, putting more resources towards killing the drug cartels would do a lot to reducing the amount of violent crime committed with firearms.

[QUOTE=catbarf;37898017]You can't just throw money at a problem and expect it to get fixed.[/QUOTE] It sure as well fucking helps. [editline]3rd October 2012[/editline] stopping the war on drugs would probably help with that drug cartel dealio

[QUOTE=catbarf;37898017]killing the drug cartels would do a lot to reducing the amount of violent crime committed with firearms.[/QUOTE] you are fooling yourself if you think that will help

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37897831]I bet if the government used the amount of money they spend on the war on drugs every year it would work.[/QUOTE] Until you realize those things are intertwined. If you manage to stop the funding of groups/cartels/gangs by destroying their product or need for their product you can deal with the rest of the group. Legalization or Criminilization won't solve the problem. The problem will be solved when the Americans stop buying weed. But since it is easier to smoke a blunt and pay for a Mexican on Mexican genocide I see nothing short of a fascist like genocide uprooting these problems.

[QUOTE=redshift2234;37898179]Until you realize those things are intertwined. If you manage to stop the funding of groups/cartels/gangs by destroying their product or need for their product you can deal with the rest of the group. Legalization or Criminilization won't solve the problem. The problem will be solved when the Americans stop buying weed. But since it is easier to smoke a blunt and pay for a Mexican on Mexican genocide I see nothing short of a fascist like genocide uprooting these problems.[/QUOTE] I am 90% certain that there are ways of getting weed that don't involve mexico Like am I supporting genocide in mexico by smoking a blunt in holland? or Canada?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37896031]you guys do realise that widespread gun ownership, with the justification being say protection from criminals is actually indicating there's a serious problem with your country[/QUOTE] Nobody said America was a glorious land of rainbows and unicorns.

[QUOTE=Ridge;37898483]Nobody said America was a glorious land of rainbows and unicorns.[/QUOTE] guess you lied about the american dream then

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37896975]it works in every other developed country[/QUOTE] Yes, gun control has stopped all crime in places like [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576406/28-gun-crimes-committed-in-UK-every-day.html]the UK[/url], [url=http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7374193n]Norway[/url], [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/07/man-arrested-charged-malmo-shootings]Sweden[/url] and all the other first world countries that implemented it. [editline]3rd October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Habsburg;37898497]guess you lied about the american dream then[/QUOTE] Pretty sure the American dream isn't "Live a life without having to lock anything because everybody is just swell here."

[QUOTE=Ridge;37898537]Yes, gun control has stopped all crime in places like [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576406/28-gun-crimes-committed-in-UK-every-day.html]the UK[/url], [url=http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7374193n]Norway[/url], [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/07/man-arrested-charged-malmo-shootings]Sweden[/url] and all the other first world countries that implemented it.[/QUOTE] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate]It kinda has[/url] [editline]3rd October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ridge;37898537]Pretty sure the American dream isn't "Live a life without having to lock anything because everybody is just swell here."[/QUOTE] Alright but that wasn't what I meant at all.

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37898606][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate"]It kinda has[/URL][/QUOTE] Wow, US is #10 in firearm related deaths behind 9 countries that have outright banned civilian ownership. You showed me.

[QUOTE=Ridge;37898841]Wow, US is #10 in firearm related deaths behind 9 countries that have outright banned civilian ownership.[/QUOTE] Coincidentally the countries in front of the United States aren't exactly the best of places to live in and in some cases those laws cannot exactly be enforced. [QUOTE=Ridge;37898841]And then there is Switzerland, with one gun for every two people. Who is doing better then every other western european nation.[/QUOTE] No it isn't, minus northern Ireland (Which doesn't count since it isn't a sovereign state.) it's got the highest rate of firearm related deaths.

Are we looking at the same countries?

Now look at the columns on the right of "number of firearm deaths". In both the US and Switzerland they appear to be mostly suicides, not crimes. "Firearm-related deaths" is too broad of a definition if you don't take into account if it was justified (say, a honest dude defending himself) or not. Also, there's many countries with lax gun control with gun death rates below 2. Czech Republic, Germany, Italy, etc.

How do you define lax gun control? can we get a sort of spectrum here? It's not "all guns banned" and "zero gun regulation" is it?

Czech Republic and Italy require licenses that are fairly easy to get once you have a clean criminal record and medical history. Italy requires you to take a short lesson at a range about weapon handling and general safety, not sure about Czechrep. CZ allows for concealed carry, and no gun-free zones exist. With the right paperwork you can buy machineguns for cheap. As for Italy, it too has CC too albeit harder to get, but it gets easier if you have to handle tons of money or valuable things as part of your job (jewelers and gunstore employees come to mind as a prime example), or live in a bad neighborhood where you might be prone to get robbed, violently assaulted, etc. Registration is required, but only after you buy the gun (where other countries like Norway require registration beforehand, that might or might not be approved). In both these two, so-called "assault weapons" aren't banned just because they look scary, instead rightfully considered as no different than any other semiautomatic weapon. As a personal standpoint (italian here, in case you don't have the Countries script), I got my license in 3-4 months (and it took long, some people I know just took a couple of weeks) and about 200 euros between range subscription and medical certificate. Then I bought an AKM clone with no hassle, and for a rather cheap price. Germany is similar, just the various licenses are harder to get. [editline]3rd October 2012[/editline] Should be noted that a nice number of American gun enthusiasts [I]envy[/I] Czech Republic's gun laws. Which is saying something.

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;37899505]Czech Republic and Italy require licenses that are fairly easy to get once you have a clean criminal record and medical history. Italy requires you to take a short lesson at a range about weapon handling and general safety, not sure about Czechrep. CZ allows for concealed carry, and no gun-free zones exist. With the right paperwork you can buy machineguns for cheap. As for Italy, it too has CC too albeit harder to get, but it gets easier if you have to handle tons of money or valuable things as part of your job (jewelers and gunstore employees come to mind as a prime example), or live in a bad neighborhood where you might be prone to get robbed, violently assaulted, etc. Registration is required, but only after you buy the gun (where other countries like Norway require registration beforehand, that might or might not be approved). In both these two, so-called "assault weapons" aren't banned just because they look scary, instead rightfully considered as no different than any other semiautomatic weapon. As a personal standpoint (italian here, in case you don't have the Countries script), I got my license in 3-4 months (and it took long, some people I know just took a couple of weeks) and about 200 euros between range subscription and medical certificate. Then I bought an AKM clone with no hassle, and for a rather cheap price. Germany is similar, just the various licenses are harder to get. [editline]3rd October 2012[/editline] Should be noted that a nice number of American gun enthusiasts [I]envy[/I] Czech Republic's gun laws. Which is saying something.[/QUOTE] Sounds pretty much ideal, really. Very difficult for criminals to abuse, but lets normal people get what they want.

[QUOTE=Ekalektik_1;37894829]See here's the thing, felons still get guns even though it's illegal for them to do so. Y'know, because they're criminals. I know I keep coming back to this point, but there's no good reason to prevent law-abiding citizens like ourselves from buying guns to deter people who want to hurt us.[/QUOTE] You keep coming back to that point incorrectly, because, as I've cited repeatedly, there's evidence gun ownership, including the legal kind, increases homicide rates. That would make sense considering some people are criminals [I]after[/I] being law-abiding citizens. Again, in Canada, "[URL="https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=157152"]there appears to be a positive correlation between firearm ownership and homicide rates[/URL]", and [URL="http://sf.oxfordjournals.org/content/69/4/1085.short"]a long term study of Detroit found that firearm ownership, period, increased homicide rates.[/URL] Meanwhile, all credible national studies find no link between firearm ownership and crime rates, but no actual statistical analysis supports a claim firearm ownership [I]reduces[/I] crime rates. So that leaves you with a couple possibilities: -It's a conspiracy and the NWO wants your guns -Firearm ownership increases homicide rates in certain conditions, and since we don't know what those are, we oughta look into it before getting hippy skippy about letting anybody own whatever

[QUOTE=Bobie;37897373]the statemant was "shooting is a hobby, it's only one of the many uses for a gun" i am inquiring on those other uses other than shooting are you telling me guns do other things than shoot? (pistol whips and shit dont count)[/QUOTE] Learning the basics of mechanics, great for use in learning projectile physics in a real life setting. Historical reference, we have a Luger from my Opa. I take care of it, only fire it a few times to keep it in good condition while keeping it well maintained, the mechanics behind it are amazing.