Colorado Theater Shooting Victims and Relatives Demand Guns Be Discussed In Upcoming Presidential De - Polidicks

[QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;37891073]Ok then while we're at it well just 'amend' away the 1st Amendment, and then the 6th, then the 4th, in that order.[/QUOTE] Also this is the slippery slope fallacy. What makes you so sure that gun control will remove all your other rights? Hint: It won't, and for the most part, your day to day life will be largely unaffected and possibly slightly better if Xenos sources are to be believed.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37891002]It's certainly not on here: [URL]http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml[/URL] So why is it not on there? I won't be convinced guns are even remotely necessary unless you provide the following: Conclusive evidence that most claims made in this thread are true and can be certified.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Article 3. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and [B]security [/B]of person.[/QUOTE] Nevermind it is full of inane shit like [QUOTE]Article 16. (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.[/QUOTE] Except the gays, apparently. [QUOTE]Article 21. (1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.[/QUOTE] How many countries represented in the UN follow this one? [QUOTE]Article 26. (1) Everyone has the right to education. [B]Education shall be free[/B], at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.[/QUOTE] It is not a right if it puts a burden on another person. You can't expect teachers to work for free. For staff to maintain the schools and materials for free. [editline]2nd October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lachz0r;37891025]i've always felt like the second amendment gave the right to bear arms in the context of being part of a WELL-REGULATED militia. i mean, that is kinda what it says[/QUOTE] A year later Congress passed the Militia Act of 1792 stating that the militia consisted of every able bodied man between the ages of 17 and 45. It made no mention of a National Guard or anything resembling it.

[QUOTE=Ridge;37891353]Nevermind it is full of inane shit like.[/QUOTE] It doesn't say guns are needed for security. Do you need guns to feel safe? [QUOTE=Ridge;37891353]Except the gays, apparently.[/QUOTE] Did it specify restriction based on sexuality? I can't see it. [QUOTE=Ridge;37891353]How many countries represented in the UN follow this one?[/QUOTE] Yours for one. [QUOTE=Ridge;37891353]It is not a right if it puts a burden on another person. You can't expect teachers to work for free. For staff to maintain the schools and materials for free.[/QUOTE] You don't understand the concept of taxes. [QUOTE=Sgt.Sgt;37891347] Once you get realistic you will see that gun ownership doesn't do any good. It creates the illusion of safety. As that is all safety really is, an illusion or an idea. Life will never be completely safe and if people want guns to feel safe they should be able to have them. Even if statistically it makes their life a fraction of a percent safer it is worth it. If owning guns makes them feel safe then they can buy one.[/QUOTE] Now reread. Really you guys should be thinking: "Hmm, is it really that a right to guns IS good? Or is it more that I have grown up in a culture of gun ownership and usage?" Think about whenever or not it actually does what you claim by looking at sources of information that tell you the effects of gun control or gun liberalization.

[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;37891318]not picking a side, just wanna point out this: the key word here is "legally" felons who want a gun aren't gonna give a shit if they obtained it legally just saying[/QUOTE] That's exactly his point. Felons wont care if guns are banned. They are already breaking the law.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37891390]It doesn't say guns are needed for security. Do you need guns to feel safe?[/QUOTE] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales"]Law enforcement sure isn't going to do it.[/URL] And considering that I've needed to use a gun in the past to defend myself and my neighbors, I think I'm pretty well justified in wanting to be able to do so.

[QUOTE=faze;37891134]Call me crazy but I agree with Romney. Laws won't stop massacres from happening. The root cause is mental health. Something seemingly untouched in this country.[/QUOTE] You're crazy.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37891171]When originally written, it did not protect the following: Women Blacks Indians Catholics Irish Socialists [/QUOTE] Unless it said ANY CHRISTIAN MALE OF HETEROSEXUAL LIFESTYLE, PURE WHITE DESCENT AND CAPITALISTIC LIFESTYLE, it covered all of those. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;37891171] For example, it says it all when the right to bear arms is more important than the right to universal healthcare.[/QUOTE] That's because there's no point in having a right you can't defend.

Sobo, you're argument is that we've grown in a gun culture. Do you know the hell hole or at least perceived hell hole the US would become without first removing this gun culture which by sales figures isn't actually going to happen? You keep arguing that guns should be either heavily regulated or that the argument of letting people holding weapons shouldn't exist when the simple PRACTICAL matter is that it would be almost impossible in the US to to remove every citizen of their weapons. The biggest issue with gun control is that unless every citizen with a gun suddenly starts killing people more often, you're going to start punishing the many because of the few. That's not how you should every write laws. The biggest issue when it comes to America's Gun culture is that its akin to the culture surrounding people who make Figurine armies ala Warhammer 40K. It becomes less and less about the actual reason of having a gun and instead growing an attachment as you take care of it and it becomes a hobby. You're going to have a horrible time trying to remove people from that kind of hobby and to get anything across in the States you have villify people.

[QUOTE=Ridge;37891458][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales"]Law enforcement sure isn't going to do it.[/URL] And considering that I've needed to use a gun in the past to defend myself and my neighbors, I think I'm pretty well justified in wanting to be able to do so.[/QUOTE] adding more guns to the equation will make you safer, right

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37891171]When originally written, it did not protect the following: Women Blacks Indians Catholics Irish Socialists I can add more. [/quote] The first two are understandable, however I don't see the connection with the others. Actually, original constitution did not specify different groups and referred to them only as "people". Really, the only place where rights of blacks and women were affected was with voting. The authors of the constitution did not think that the general populace was responsible enough to elect their own representatives, and only property owning males were given the ability to elect officials. Seeing how this wasn't specified in the bill of rights, it was naturally changed as time went on. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;37891171]For example, it says it all when the right to bear arms is more important than the right to universal healthcare.[/quote] Sorry, but universal health care wasn't exactly a thing in the 1787. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;37891171] [editline]3rd October 2012[/editline] Except you are still mostly sticking to a horribly inflexible piece of legislation.[/QUOTE] The U.S. constitution is hardly inflexible. With a lot of other constitutions, everything is set in stone, whereas the U.S. Constitution can be changed with the addition of amendments. Sure, you cant change the first 10 amendments, but these are considered basic human rights.

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37891480]adding more guns to the equation will make you safer, right[/QUOTE] I hope so. I should be safe as fuck right now... [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3meI1l.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Sgt.Sgt;37891347]Once you get realistic you will see that gun control doesn't do any good. It creates the illusion of safety. As that is all safety really is, an illusion or an idea. [/QUOTE] So if everyone had a gun the country would be far safer? America: one eternal mexican standoff.

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37891504]So if everyone had a gun the country would be far safer? America: one eternal mexican standoff.[/QUOTE] The beauty of the Mexican standoff is, the first one to escalate it gets it from almost everyone else.

[QUOTE=Ridge;37891495]I hope so. I should be safe as fuck right now... [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3meI1l.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] If safety is the primary reason to buy a gun why do you have so many

I've got that sinking feeling my post will be ignored.

[QUOTE=Ridge;37891515]The beauty of the Mexican standoff is, the first one to escalate it gets it from almost everyone else.[/QUOTE] That's not very safe.

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37891525]If safety is the primary reason to buy a gun why do you have so many[/QUOTE]He collects them...?

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37891480]adding more guns to the equation will make you safer, right[/QUOTE] taking away legal guns from people who arent going to misuse them sure as hell wont

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37891466]You're crazy.[/QUOTE] Banning guns isn't like putting a bandaid on the issue. It's trying to fix the wound by incerting a hollow copper-tube into the wound, hoping the blood will pass on to the vein instead of exiting the wound... It's an unrelated and shortsighted solution to a much bigger problem. There are several people that are willing to go to such large extents only to spread terror on innocent masses that they plan all this and go through with it. I'm talking quite broadly about different shooters here. [I]Especially[/I] Breivik and the Colorado shooter. In a lot of states it'd be faster and easier for them to buy the weapons illegally, as they [I]certainly[/I] wouldn't have [I]any[/I] moral issue when it comes to the purchase and ownership of an illegal weapon, nor killing shitloads of people for something that isn't even worth punching someone over.

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37891480]adding more guns to the equation will make you safer, right[/QUOTE] It will if the other party has the intention to harm you. Honestly, giving less gun control won't necessarily add more guns to the situation. There are already plenty of guns out there, and adding more laws to control them is only going to harm the law abiding citizens as criminals buy, sell, and carry guns as they please.

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37891525]If safety is the primary reason to buy a gun why do you have so many[/QUOTE] same reason that people have multiple cars cars arent all for getting from point a to point b, guns arent all for mass murdering people (despite what you might think)

[QUOTE=CAPSMAN!;37891562]Banning guns isn't like putting a bandaid on the issue. It's trying to fix the wound by incerting a hollow copper-tube into the wound, hoping the blood will pass on to the vein instead of exiting the wound... It's an unrelated and shortsighted solution to a much bigger problem. There are several people that are willing to go to such large extents only to spread terror on innocent masses that they plan all this and go through with it. I'm talking quite broadly about different shooters here. [I]Especially[/I] Breivik and the Colorado shooter. In a lot of states it'd be faster and easier for them to buy the weapons illegally, as they [I]certainly[/I] wouldn't have [I]any[/I] moral issue when it comes to the purchase and ownership of an illegal weapon, nor killing shitloads of people for something that isn't even worth punching someone over.[/QUOTE] I did not in any way suggest we should ban guns. suggesting the problem can be solved through laws =/= I want to ban guns.

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37891504]So if everyone had a gun the country would be far safer? America: one eternal mexican standoff.[/QUOTE] How the fuck is it a mexican standoff? People aren't threatening eachother. If you put everyone in a shooting situation in a circle, to have a "standoff", EVERYONE would know that the guy that all of a sudden draws a gun is trying to kill the rest. Whoever had weapons would shoot him so that he could not shoot [I]anyone[/I].

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37891525]If safety is the primary reason to buy a gun why do you have so many[/QUOTE] Bedside gun, toilet gun, front door gun, back door gun, closet gun, basement gun, shower gun and long range front lawn defense gun. Not in that order.

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;37891581]same reason that people have multiple cars cars arent all for getting from point a to point b, guns arent all for mass murdering people (despite what you might think)[/QUOTE] Yeah I don't get why you would want more than one car either.

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37891619]I did not in any way suggest we should ban guns. suggesting the problem can be solved through laws =/= I want to ban guns.[/QUOTE] Alright. Restricting it by laws isn't going to help. The people you're trying to put the laws on don't give a shit, you're just harming those that would obey them.

[QUOTE=CAPSMAN!;37891624]How the fuck is it a mexican standoff? People aren't threatening eachother. If you put everyone in a shooting situation in a circle, to have a "standoff", EVERYONE would know that the guy that all of a sudden draws a gun is trying to kill the rest. Whoever had weapons would shoot him so that he could not shoot [I]anyone[/I].[/QUOTE] He gets his news from Onion articles, just ignore him. [url]http://www.theonion.com/video/new-law-legalizes-brandishing-guns-at-head-level-s,26085/[/url]

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37891635]Yeah I don't get why you would want more than one car either.[/QUOTE] Then you probably don't feel like having several pair of pants or chairs either. Enjoy your communist/hippie nirvana.

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37891635]Yeah I don't get why you would want more than one car either.[/QUOTE] Daily driver, track car, back door car, toilet car, etc...

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37891349]Also this is the slippery slope fallacy. What makes you so sure that gun control will remove all your other rights? Hint: It won't, and for the most part, your day to day life will be largely unaffected and possibly slightly better if Xenos sources are to be believed.[/QUOTE] Because the 2nd Amendment is no greater nor lesser than any of the other Amendments, if one can be taken away then the others can be as well. And you know what would make my life and the lives of other Americans enormously better? A Government that didn't see fit to declare pointless wars which have dragged our economy into the shitter, that didn't see fit to pursue policies that empower criminal organizations to the point that those organizations pose a serious threat to innocent people both at home and abroad. How about a Government that strives to expand and create new technologies that better the lives of everyone? The US Government doesn't do a single one of those.