[QUOTE=hoodoo456;50697250]You don't turn people into supporters of any candidate lol, anyone who says "WELL I USED TO SUPPORT BERNIE/HILLARY UNTIL..." never actually supported them[/QUOTE]people can change opinions you know
and you're still not explaining why you support hillary, but you sure as hell explained why you hate trump. is there something you're afraid of?
[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50697265]On foreign relations, global influence, economy, and climate change.
It's hard even to comment on that because Trump flip flops like crazy, which definitely not good on his behalf.
However, Hillary is an authoritarian that wants to essentially destroy the constitution and not address the incredible downsides to mass-Muslim immigration.
Not only that, but the law apparently doesn't apply to her, as seen with her private email server.[/QUOTE]
All I can say is when your choices amount to the cleanest of two slimeballs, people are willing to go for the slimeball who might not do as much harm than the unknown quantity who could wreck the country if he gets into power.
[QUOTE=sb27;50696771]Can I say that it's actually really funny how a lot of people here, many of who have probably been Bernie 'supporters' in the past, have turned so harshly against the man after his endorsement of Hillary. What's the go? Ask yourself this: Are you really a pro-Bernie supporter, or are you an anti-Hillary supporter?
If your response to Bernie's endorsement of Hillary is to say you'll vote for Jill Stein, write-in Bernie, or vote for Trump (this makes no sense, but many people still say they'll do it), you were never a Bernie supporter to begin with.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=hoodoo456;50697250]You don't turn people into supporters of any candidate lol, anyone who says "WELL I USED TO SUPPORT BERNIE/HILLARY UNTIL..." never actually supported them[/QUOTE]
If you support a person, you're a fucking idiot.
You support the ideals that person stands for, not the person himself. If they no longer stands for your ideals, you no longer support them.
[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50697265]On foreign relations, global influence, economy, and climate change.
It's hard even to comment on that because Trump flip flops like crazy, which definitely not good on his behalf.
However, Hillary is an authoritarian that wants to essentially destroy the constitution and not address the incredible downsides to mass-Muslim immigration.
Not only that, but the law apparently doesn't apply to her, as seen with her private email server.[/QUOTE]
Trump is the most authoritarian candidate in decades. [url=http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trump-2016-authoritarian-213533#ixzz3xi8H1ok9]Authoritarianism is the trait that correlates most strongly to supporting Trump.[/url]
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50697182]Lmao? You're talking like you have a long history of getting shit for supporting Trump (we both know you do not)
The only thing you have a history of is being a whiny know-it-all who is always, ironically, very uninformed[/QUOTE]
Because I knew talking about Trump would make the kind of posts like yours and Hoodoo's happen. And I didn't want to deal with it. This time I decided to come and defend MissingNoGuy because I wanted to.
Also nice job insulting me, but I'm not phased.
[QUOTE=MissingNoGuy;50697224]yeah i guess SJWs like you are really rational, huh?
and don't pull the alt-right crap with me, i've seen you support some of the crap they've done. what makes you any better? why do you vehemently pretend the other group is a crazy cult-following? do you REALLY think you're any better?[/QUOTE]
Considering they support someone who wants to destroy our economy, set women's rights back several decades, ban an entire religion from entering the country, waste billions on a giant wall along our border with another country because of racist paranoia, thinks climate change is a hoax, would destroy any chance of good healthcare... Yeah, I do think they're fucking crazy.
[editline]12th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;50697298]Because I knew talking about Trump would make the kind of posts like yours and Hoodoo's happen. And I didn't want to deal with it. This time I decided to come and defend MissingNoGuy because I wanted to.
Also nice job insulting me, but I'm not phased.[/QUOTE]
So when are you going to explain what reasons Trump has given you to vote for him
bernie just sent this email explaining some things.
[QUOTE]I am writing you today to express my deep pride in the movement – the political revolution – you and I have created together over the last 15 months. When we began this historic campaign, we were considered fringe players by the political, economic and media establishment. Well, we proved them wrong.
We showed that the American people support a bold, progressive agenda that takes on the billionaire class, that fights for racial, social, economic and environmental justice and that seeks to create a government that works for all of us and not just the big campaign donors.
We mobilized over 13 million voters across the country. We won 23 Democratic primary and caucus contests. We had literally hundreds of thousands of volunteers across the country. And we showed – in a way that can change politics in America forever – that you can run a competitive national grassroots campaign without begging millionaires and billionaires for campaign contributions.
Most importantly, we elevated the critical issues facing our country – issues the establishment has pushed under the rug for too long. We focused attention on the grotesque level of income and wealth inequality in this country and the importance of breaking up the large banks who brought our economy to the brink of collapse. We exposed our horrendous trade policies, our broken criminal justice system, and our people's lack of access to affordable health care and higher education. We fought aggressively to address the crisis of climate change, the need for real comprehensive immigration reform, the importance of developing a foreign policy that values diplomacy over war, and so much more.
We have shown throughout this election that these are issues that are important to voters and that progressive solutions energize people in the fight for real change. What we have accomplished so far is historic – but our work is far from over.
This movement of ours – this political revolution – must continue. We cannot let all of the momentum we have achieved in the fight to transform America be lost. We will never stop fighting for what is right.
It is true that in terms of winning the Democratic nomination, we did come up short. But this election was never about me or any candidate. It was about the powerful coming together of millions of people to take their country back from the billionaire class. That was the strength of our campaign and it will be the strength of our movement going forward in the months and years ahead.
In the coming weeks, I will be announcing the creation of successor organizations to carry on the struggle that we have been a part of these past 15 months. I hope you will continue to be involved in fighting to transform America. Our goal will be to advance the progressive agenda that we believe in and to elect like-minded candidates at the federal, state and local levels who are committed to accomplishing our goals.
In terms of the presidential election this November, there is no doubt that the election of Donald Trump as president would be a devastating blow to all that we are fighting for. His openly bigoted and pro-billionaire campaign could precipitate the same decades-long rightward shift in American politics that happened after the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980. That rightward shift after Reagan’s election infected not just politics as a whole but led to the ascendancy of the corporatist wing of the Democratic Party – an era from which we are still recovering.
I cannot in good conscience let that happen.
To have all of the work we have done in elevating our progressive ideals be dashed away by a complete Republican takeover of Washington – a takeover headed by a candidate that demonizes Latinos, Muslims, women, African Americans, veterans, and others – would be unthinkable.
[B]Today, I endorsed Hillary Clinton to be our next president. I know that some of you will be disappointed with that decision. But I believe that, at this moment, our country, our values, and our common vision for a transformed America, are best served by the defeat of Donald Trump and the election of Hillary Clinton.
[/B]
You should know that in the weeks since the last primary, both campaigns have worked together in good faith to bridge some of the policy issues that divided us during the election. Did we come to agreement on everything? Of course not. But we made important steps forward.
Hillary Clinton released a debt free college plan that we developed together which now includes free tuition at public colleges and universities for working families. This was a major part of our campaign’s agenda and a proposal that, if enacted into law, would revolutionize higher education in this country.
Secretary Clinton has also publicly committed to massive investments in health care for communities across this country that will increase primary care, including mental health care, dental care, and low-cost prescription drug access for an additional 25 million people. Importantly, she has also endorsed the enactment of a so-called public option to allow everyone in this country to participate in a public insurance program. This idea was killed by the insurance industry during consideration of President Obama’s health care program.
During the Democratic platform proceedings in St. Louis and Orlando, we were victorious in including amendments to make it a clear priority of the Democratic Party to fight for a $15 an hour federal minimum wage, expand Social Security, abolish the death penalty, put a price on carbon, establish a path toward the legalization of marijuana, enact major criminal justice reforms, pass comprehensive immigration reform, end for-profit prisons and detention facilities, break up too-big-to-fail banks and create a 21st century Glass-Steagall Act, close loopholes that allow big companies to avoid taxes by stashing their cash in offshore tax havens and use that revenue to rebuild America, approve the most expansive agenda ever for protecting Native American rights and so much more.
All of these progressive policies were at the heart of our campaign. The truth is our movement is responsible for the most progressive Democratic platform in the history of our country. All of that is the direct result of the work that our members of the platform committee did in the meetings and that you have been doing over the last 15 months.
But none of these initiatives will happen if we do not elect a Democratic president in November. None! In fact, we will go backward. We must elect the Democratic nominee in November and progressive Democrats up and down the ballot so that we ensure that these policy commitments can advance.
It is extremely important that we keep our movement together, that we hold public officials accountable and that we elect progressive candidates to office at the federal, state, and local level who will stand with us.
As part of that effort, we still have a tremendous amount of work left to do in the Democratic Rules Committee that will be meeting in the coming weeks. We have to enact the kinds of reforms to the Democratic Party and to the electoral process that will provide us the tools to elect progressive candidates, to allow new voices and new energy into the Party, and to break up the excessive power that the economic and political elites in the Party currently have. As with our fights on the platform committee, that will only be possible if we stand together.
You should know that I intend to be actively campaigning throughout this election season to elect candidates who will stand by our agenda. I hope to see many of you at events from coast to coast.
In conclusion, I again want to express my pride in what we have accomplished together over the last year. But so much more must be done to make our vision a reality. Now more than ever our country needs our movement – our political revolution. As you have throughout this historic campaign, I ask for your ongoing support as we continue through the fall and beyond.
On a personal note, I cannot say with words how appreciative Jane and I are of the kindness, dedication and love we experienced from so many people across the country. We are deeply touched by it and will never, ever forget it.
Please let me know that you will stand with me to defeat Donald Trump, and to elect candidates who will stand by our agenda as part of the future of our political revolution. Add your name now.
Forever committed, forever fighting, forever forward,
Bernie Sanders
[/QUOTE]
[editline]12th July 2016[/editline]
whoops didn't realize it was that big
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;50697298]Because I knew talking about Trump would make the kind of posts like yours and Hoodoo's happen. And I didn't want to deal with it. This time I decided to come and defend MissingNoGuy because I wanted to.
Also nice job insulting me, but I'm not phased.[/QUOTE]
4 months ago, you literally admitted to being a total pushover who just goes with the flow
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49911552]I'm basically admitting I'm conflicted and letting myself be led by the public/popular opinion of the internet because I'm lazy and trying not to make myself look more stupid than I already am.[/QUOTE]
And now you're going with "oh I've been supporting him for a long time, I was just scared of internet meanies"
Yeah, right
[quote=Barnholio Sandlerino]Today, I endorsed Hillary Clinton to be our next president. I know that some of you will be disappointed with that decision. But I believe that, at this moment, our country, our values, and our common vision for a transformed America, are best served by the defeat of Donald Trump and the election of Hillary Clinton.[/quote]this just sounds like "we need to defeat the right with the left". he could have endorsed Stein, but he didn't for some reason
polarization is a huge issue and i'm surprised no candidate ever brought that up
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50697213]What issues do you agree with him on, and why[/QUOTE]
I agree with him on taking jobs back from China and Mexico because I'd like a better chance at getting a Job.
I agree with him on fixing up immigration for Mexicans and Muslims, as the situation in Europe is getting out of control, and I'd hate to see celebrations here in the United States getting swamped with multiple mass sexual assaults and molestations. And I don't care if the person sneaking across the southern border is nice or not, he came over illegally and needs to come back the legal way. Others have done it fine and without issue, hell Legal Mexican Immigrants are actually critical of their illegal cousins.
I like that he's against TPP.
And I want to see the Second Amendment defended.
I'm also tired of this current identity politics climate that's limiting our progress, as it puts more pressure to get, for example, a woman into the oval office with a very shady history, rather than someone who can just do the job.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;50697176]
I'm not going to lie, I was against Trump at first, but then I decided to put aside all the things everyone was saying about him and actually listen to him for once. I like his policies, I like his balls and guts, I like that he wants to bring blue collar jobs back to America, I like that he's not afraid of the current hardcore PC environment that's too afraid to label BLM as nothing more than a hate group.
[/QUOTE]
So basically you fell for Baby's First Demagoguery like every other lemming voting for him.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;50697394]I agree with him on taking jobs back from China and Mexico because I'd like a better chance at getting a Job.
I agree with him on fixing up immigration for Mexicans and Muslims, as the situation in Europe is getting out of control, and I'd hate to see celebrations here in the United States getting swamped with multiple mass sexual assaults and molestations. And I don't care if the person sneaking across the southern border is nice or not, he came over illegally and needs to come back the legal way. Others have done it fine and without issue, hell Legal Mexican Immigrants are actually critical of their illegal cousins.
I like that he's against TPP.
And I want to see the Second Amendment defended.
I'm also tired of this current identity politics climate that's limiting our progress, as it puts more pressure to get, for example, a woman into the oval office with a very shady history, rather than someone who can just do the job.[/QUOTE]this is more or less the reason i support him, couldn't have said it any better
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50697354]4 months ago, you literally admitted to being a total pushover who just goes with the flow
And now you're going with "oh I've been supporting him for a long time, I was just scared of internet meanies"
Yeah, right[/QUOTE]
You know what the recent weeks of supporting Trump has given me? The confidence to tell you that you're not going to push me, or scare me, or intimidate me. and I'm done going with the flow.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;50697433]You know what the recent weeks of supporting Trump has given me? The confidence to tell you that you're not going to push me, or scare me, or intimidate me. and I'm done going with the flow.[/QUOTE]
Hahahah jesus dude
You're arguing on an internet forum, don't get a big dick about it
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;50697433]You know what the recent weeks of supporting Trump has given me? The confidence to tell you that you're not going to push me, or scare me, or intimidate me. and I'm done going with the flow.[/QUOTE]
internet tough guy
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;50697394]I agree with him on taking jobs back from China and Mexico because I'd like a better chance at getting a Job.
I agree with him on fixing up immigration for Mexicans and Muslims, as the situation in Europe is getting out of control, and I'd hate to see celebrations here in the United States getting swamped with multiple mass sexual assaults and molestations. And I don't care if the person sneaking across the southern border is nice or not, he came over illegally and needs to come back the legal way. Others have done it fine and without issue, hell Legal Mexican Immigrants are actually critical of their illegal cousins.
I like that he's against TPP.
And I want to see the Second Amendment defended.
I'm also tired of this current identity politics climate that's limiting our progress, as it puts more pressure to get, for example, a woman into the oval office with a very shady history, rather than someone who can just do the job.[/QUOTE]
His economic 'policy' will crash your economy and make it far harder for you to get a job.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;50697433]You know what the recent weeks of supporting Trump has given me? The confidence to tell you that you're not going to push me, or scare me, or intimidate me. and I'm done going with the flow.[/QUOTE]
holy shit it's like I'm watching God's Not Dead
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;50697433]You know what the recent weeks of supporting Trump has given me? The confidence to tell you that you're not going to push me, or scare me, or intimidate me. and I'm done going with the flow.[/QUOTE]
It's ironic that Trump has built his whole image on being the big tough guy who isn't afraid to insult minorities whereas his supporters seem to be delicate little flowers.
[QUOTE=MissingNoGuy;50697382]he could have endorsed Stein, but he didn't for some reason[/QUOTE]
That reason being that he wants to actually accomplish something. Jill Stein is a great candidate for anyone who wanted to vote for Sanders. UNLESS you want your candidate to actually get into office. If that happened then everything Sanders has been working for would mean exactly squat. And endorsing Stein would only serve to make Trump [I]more[/I] electable which is the last thing he wants to do. This is about far more than a specific candidate anyways. While it does remain to be seen how much of it gets upheld, Sanders has been working with the DNC as well as Clinton's campaign lately specifically to help make sure that the most important ideals he has been campaigning for are goals for the entire Democratic Party.
Then again basically all of this has already been explained in this very thread by multiple others so you're clearly not even listening; continue thinking whatever you'd like with no regard to what's actually happening.
[QUOTE=CatFodder;50697464]It's ironic that Trump has built his whole image on being the big tough guy who isn't afraid to insult minorities whereas his supporters seem to be delicate little flowers.[/QUOTE]picking on him doesn't make you look any better, to be fair
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;50697394]I agree with him on taking jobs back from China and Mexico because I'd like a better chance at getting a Job.
I agree with him on fixing up immigration for Mexicans and Muslims, as the situation in Europe is getting out of control, and I'd hate to see celebrations here in the United States getting swamped with multiple mass sexual assaults and molestations. And I don't care if the person sneaking across the southern border is nice or not, he came over illegally and needs to come back the legal way. Others have done it fine and without issue, hell Legal Mexican Immigrants are actually critical of their illegal cousins.
I like that he's against TPP.
And I want to see the Second Amendment defended.
I'm also tired of this current identity politics climate that's limiting our progress, as it puts more pressure to get, for example, a woman into the oval office with a very shady history, rather than someone who can just do the job.[/QUOTE]
his economic policy sounds like an excellent way of making sure that you'll have even fewer jobs than before :speechless:
[QUOTE=Alice3173;50697473]Then again basically all of this has already been explained in this very thread by multiple others so you're clearly not even listening; continue thinking whatever you'd like with no regard to what's actually happening.[/QUOTE]you know what, i agree with your post. but was that [i]really[/i] necessary?
Facepunch users make a pretty good case for the electoral college.
[QUOTE=MissingNoGuy;50697479]picking on him doesn't make you look any better, to be fair[/QUOTE]
what, it's fucking fine when king trump does it but not when we do? I thought you wanted people to speak their minds?
[QUOTE=MissingNoGuy;50697382]this just sounds like "we need to defeat the right with the left". he could have endorsed Stein, but he didn't for some reason
polarization is a huge issue and i'm surprised no candidate ever brought that up[/QUOTE]
Theres s reason why he didn't and that's to not split the party like the Republicans are doing. Any vote not for Clinton helps Trump.
Martin is eating up and spouting out everything Trump says he'll do without knowing how he'll do it.
Do I want illegal immigration halted and a proper path to citizenship with comprehensive immigration reform? Absofuckinglutely I do. Do I want to spend billions building the largest single wall in the entire world? Fuck no.
I'm not opposed to Trump's ideas. I also want economic reform and want jobs to return from Mexico and SEA. I agree with him on that. Our disagreement comes in execution, not pure ideas. I'm convinced, as are the majority of economic experts, that his economic plan and immigration plan would absolutely trash the American economy and outright ruin global trade. His tax plan demonstrably decreases economic mobility - even conservative economic think tanks openly say this - and would make it even more difficult for myself to do anything but work in food service for my entire life.
I want a simplified tax plan. I want a solution to the immigration issue. The problem with what Martin is saying is that, yes, he has solutions - but they're fucking horrendously awful ones that would be literally worse than not having a solution.
If I have a big cut on my arm I'm going to find a way to try to stop the bleeding. I'd still rather do nothing than chop it off with a fire axe, which is Trump's solution to our economic situation.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;50697433]You know what the recent weeks of supporting Trump has given me? The confidence to tell you that you're not going to push me, or scare me, or intimidate me. and I'm done going with the flow.[/QUOTE]
you know i don't have anything against supporting trump but these posts are funny as shit
you're going to look back at these in a few years and think 'wow did I really say this'
[QUOTE=Mingebox;50697398]So basically you fell for Baby's First Demagoguery like every other lemming voting for him.[/QUOTE]
You think the alternative is any better? You want to support a criminal whose betrayed America more than once? You be my guest.
I decided to grow up and listen to what he actually had to say, than just go on about how wacist he was because of his early campaigning. I'm not going to vote for anyone because of how "progressive they are" we got our gay marriage rights, and Trump is the first person to actually come out in support of LGBT.
A Hateful religion that despised gays is what killed 50 people in Orlando, but no one wanted to say it because people like Hillary wanted to "protect their feelings" and instead just go for gun rights again. The Democrats and Hillary Clinton turned their backs on us that day. You've seen what's happening in Europe, the migrants don't want to assimilate into European society. What do you think will happen if we start letting them come to America? What will they think of places like Boystown in Chicago?
[QUOTE=MissingNoGuy;50697479]picking on him doesn't make you look any better, to be fair[/QUOTE]
People pick on him because he's an absolute joke of a candidate who doesn't seem to understand the consequences of his actions besides "america first" and "make america great again" and "build a wall."
It's a disdain he earned because of how much a joke he is, except the sad part is that people took this joke more seriously than it should've been taken to start with considering that before this election began he had negative approval from within his own party
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50697497]what, it's fucking fine when king trump does it but not when we do? I thought you wanted people to speak their minds?[/QUOTE]i could pick on you guys all day for liking someone but it wouldn't make me feel any better about myself
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