[QUOTE=MissingNoGuy;50697771]yes, this is true. hence why it's so hit-or-miss
as for creating jobs, it's not going to get better unless mental health and the living situation is resolved. too many people are suffering to care about jobs[/QUOTE]
This will be compounded by Trump's proposals of gutting the affordable care act and replacing it with a more expensive plan that will actually reduce the coverage of those affected. We're talking millions of americans no longer having any health coverage, and only the smallest proportion of those who lose access to insurance under the affordable care act will even regain coverage under Trump's proposals. This is to say nothing of the $ 1/2 trillion that it'll cost to introduce these proposals.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;50697804]This will be compounded by Trump's proposals of gutting the affordable care act and replacing it with a more expensive plan that will actually reduce the coverage of those affected. We're talking millions of americans no longer having any health coverage, and only the smallest proportion of those who lose access to insurance under the affordable care act will even regain coverage under Trump's proposals. This is to say nothing of the $ 1/2 trillion that it'll cost to introduce these proposals.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget the[B] Trillions[/B] estimated for just the materials cost of Trump's wall.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;50697804]This will be compounded by Trump's proposals of gutting the affordable care act and replacing it with a more expensive plan that will actually reduce the coverage of those affected. We're talking millions of americans no longer having any health coverage, and only the smallest proportion of those who lose access to insurance under the affordable care act will even regain coverage under Trump's proposals. This is to say nothing of the $ 1/2 trillion that it'll cost to introduce these proposals.[/QUOTE]so it'd be bush-era healthcare all over again
i can't support that
[QUOTE=1legmidget;50697823]Don't forget the[B] Trillions[/B] estimated for just the materials cost of Trump's wall.[/QUOTE]
Well in defense of the kook he did say that we're going to take the money to build the wall out of Mexico's foreign aid so it theoretically wouldn't cost us anything (and unlike some people in Mexico have said, that is not a "preposterous" idea and it would totally be implementable)
Now, is it a good idea? No. But it wouldn't cost money, theoretically.
[QUOTE=phygon;50697864]Well in defense of the kook he did say that we're going to take the money to build the wall out of Mexico's foreign aid so it theoretically wouldn't cost us anything (and unlike some people in Mexico have said, that is not a "preposterous" idea and it would totally be implementable)
Now, is it a good idea? No. But it wouldn't cost money, theoretically.[/QUOTE]
The highest total I've seen for our contribution to Mexico in terms of foreign aid is around 60 Million a year. Even if that were 999 Million, that doesn't come close to Trump's estimate of Billions, and doesn't come anywhere near most of the estimates that put materials cost alone in the Trillions. Maybe if we're looking at a couple thousand year long project it wouldn't cost us anything if it were funded solely by the money we sent Mexico.
[QUOTE=MaxovEstudeev;50697639]Yes I suppose a literal racist like FDR is truly someone we should be looking to for inspiration in the progressive movement
We're talking about a guy who appointed a KKK member to the court, and was OK with the internment of thousands of asian americans because they might be spies?[/QUOTE]
Oh, you mean Hugo Black, who only joined the KKK because he needed votes, and publicly acknowledged later that he fucked up in doing so? Hugo Black, who was one of the most liberal people in the court at the time?
Internment is a natural part of war. The main reason we interned so many Japanese people was because Japan had just attacked Pearl Harbor, and FDR needed a quick way to keep military bases safe in case there were actually spies. People were scared that there was actually going to be a full scale invasion of the west coast. There wasn't anything else they could have done at the time. And it was really just the west coast, in areas close to military operation centers.
That was war. And it was a war that we won. FDR handled it better than most other presidents would have, that's for damn sure. And if you seriously think FDR was a "literal racist", maybe you should actually read a fucking book. He led a massive push for civil rights, especially for African-Americans.
What a fucking disappointment he turned out to be lol
[editline]12th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=1legmidget;50697823]Don't forget the[B] Trillions[/B] estimated for just the materials cost of Trump's wall.[/QUOTE]
"Mexico is gonna pay for it"
-toofar
jesus christ I'm seeing green I'm so pissed now.
When you throw away principles for victory, you have no principles nor victory
[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;50698065]Oh, you mean Hugo Black, who only joined the KKK because he needed votes, and publicly acknowledged later that he fucked up in doing so? Hugo Black, who was one of the most liberal people in the court at the time?
Internment is a natural part of war. The main reason we interned so many Japanese people was because Japan had just attacked Pearl Harbor, and FDR needed a quick way to keep military bases safe in case there were actually spies. People were scared that there was actually going to be a full scale invasion of the west coast. There wasn't anything else they could have done at the time. And it was really just the west coast, in areas close to military operation centers.
That was war. And it was a war that we won. FDR handled it better than most other presidents would have, that's for damn sure. And if you seriously think FDR was a "literal racist", maybe you should actually read a fucking book. He led a massive push for civil rights, especially for African-Americans.[/QUOTE]
Yeah what about Asian Americans? He had no legitimate reason to believe that these people who had been naturalized for years were suddenly going to cause the collapse of America. "There wasn't anything else they could have done at the time" Did we put people of Russian blood into internment camps during the cold war era? No we didn't. So why did we need to do it to Asians? Because white supremacy.
Hugo Black saying "I just needed the votes" yeah sure, sounds like an antiquated "I was just pretending to be retarded"
And with Japanese resources used on China there was absolutely no way they could have posed a significant challenge to the US at the time, so I doubt that was a legit reason. If anything, the Philippines were threatened, not the west coast.
"FDR needed a quick way to keep military bases safe in case there were actually spies. "
So should Donald Trump be allowed to intern muslims in response to terrorist attacks on our soil? The terrorist attacks of today are the Pearl Harbor of yesteryear, they inspire fear. Hey, we totally need a quick way to keep our soil protected from terrorist attacks, so let's intern muslims! Oh don't worry it's not racist or anything, it's just that with ISIS and everything there really wasn't anything else we could do. Don't worry, they can play baseball while we wait for this whole thing to blow over.
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Gimmick" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
kinda glad i didn't give him anything in donations.
[QUOTE=Limed00d;50697601]to add to this:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/BLSwfI5.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/5oNWk7s.png[/IMG]
where's that lgbt support then marty[/QUOTE]
His response within regards to protecting religious freedom is completely rational.
America doesn't deserve to have a Bernie Sanders anyway.
HURRR DURRH IM VOTING GREEN IM VOTING TRUMP WHY IS HE SUPPORTING THIS BIT CH
Bunch of babies who've never been involved in politics and instead bandwagon on Internet trends are upset that a politician is engaging in politics to get some of his policies implemented.
Bernie's the amendment King. He's very good at compromising. Politics would be a permanent stalemate if everyone said "no I won't work with you ever." Stop criticizing someone for being pragmatic instead of "being principled" and literally getting absolutely nothing done instead. You don't make progress by refusing to work with others.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50698252]Bunch of babies who've never been involved in politics and instead bandwagon on Internet trends are upset that a politician is engaging in politics to get some of his policies implemented.
Bernie's the amendment King. He's very good at compromising. Politics would be a permanent stalemate if everyone said "no I won't work with you ever." Stop criticizing someone for being pragmatic instead of "being principled" and literally getting absolutely nothing done instead. You don't make progress by refusing to work with others.[/QUOTE]
Compromise is a 4 letter word to some these days.
This statement is as dumb as it is true
[QUOTE=MaxovEstudeev;50698186]Yeah what about Asian Americans? He had no legitimate reason to believe that these people who had been naturalized for years were suddenly going to cause the collapse of America. "There wasn't anything else they could have done at the time" Did we put people of Russian blood into internment camps during the cold war era? No we didn't. So why did we need to do it to Asians? Because white supremacy.
Hugo Black saying "I just needed the votes" yeah sure, sounds like an antiquated "I was just pretending to be retarded"
And with Japanese resources used on China there was absolutely no way they could have posed a significant challenge to the US at the time, so I doubt that was a legit reason. If anything, the Philippines were threatened, not the west coast.
"FDR needed a quick way to keep military bases safe in case there were actually spies. "
So should Donald Trump be allowed to intern muslims in response to terrorist attacks on our soil? The terrorist attacks of today are the Pearl Harbor of yesteryear, they inspire fear. Hey, we totally need a quick way to keep our soil protected from terrorist attacks, so let's intern muslims! Oh don't worry it's not racist or anything, it's just that with ISIS and everything there really wasn't anything else we could do. Don't worry, they can play baseball while we wait for this whole thing to blow over.[/QUOTE]
Max, is that really you?
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;50697676]You know what. I'm done. This entire sub-section is too entrenched in their Leftist views I get that. And I'm fine with that. But I've given my reasons. I know what I'm voting for.
Can anyone else give the same amount of confidence for the most crooked person in recent history since Nixon?[/QUOTE]
To be honest I think this is pretty silly in itself. Both sides need to put aside the rhetoric, get around the negotiating table, and sort this problem out, because the public have been left down across the country. Trump has acted in a reckless and provocative manner, especially when he keeps calling Hillary "Crooked" as if it somehow ad hominids strengthen his position.
[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;50698065]
Internment is a natural part of war. The main reason we interned so many Japanese people was because Japan had just attacked Pearl Harbor, and FDR needed a quick way to keep military bases safe in case there were actually spies. People were scared that there was actually going to be a full scale invasion of the west coast. There wasn't anything else they could have done at the time. And it was really just the west coast, in areas close to military operation centers.
That was war. And it was a war that we won. FDR handled it better than most other presidents would have, that's for damn sure. [/QUOTE]
Wow, this is the first time I've actually seen anyone unironically be apologetic towards the internment. Are you completely insane? Those interned were put into camps for merely being a different race. These people weren't just first generation Japanese immigrants, they were 100% Americans. These were people who were often locked away because ancestors just happened to come Japan. This wasn't a "natural part of war", it was a horrifying racist action taken by countries like America and Canada. If you're some random white guy do you seriously you'd be put into a camp in WW2 because your great-great-great grandfather came from Germany? Even people with Japanese ancestry from south America in places like Peru weren't saved from this as plenty of them were also shipped north be put into interment camps in America. Obviously Peru wasn't at risk of any Japanese invasion or near an American military base. This was a policy motivated almost purely by racial hatred and ignorance and it's honestly shocking how anyone can hold a view like yours in the 21st century.
[QUOTE=Limed00d;50697601][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/5oNWk7s.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Depends, is it gender identity as in transgender, or "gender" "identity" as in two-spirited bi-demipunk fox-kin? Because transgender is real, but the other is mental illness.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50698100]What a fucking disappointment he turned out to be lol[/QUOTE]
Lot less disappointing than the collective stupidity that Trump as Republican nominee represents.
i'm not a trump supporter in anyway
but really the trump supporters in this thread are being far more reasonable than the anti trump ones
like calm down, they never attacked you personally, don't be so childish, do you fear trump so much that you go rabid the moment you see a supporter? [I]do the words "I support trump" trigger you[/I]
regardless of who sanders endorses, i won't vote out of fear of trump, and will still not vote for clinton, i would rather throw away my vote on a third party
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50698413]Depends, is it gender identity as in transgender, or "gender" "identity" as in two-spirited bi-demipunk fox-kin? Because transgender is real, but the other is mental illness.[/QUOTE]
Okay, people really need to stop bringing up this "i identify as a bagel lmaoooooo" shit. It's not taken seriously by the vast, vast supermajority of the LGBT community. It's relegated to a select few cliquey blogs and communities on the Internet.
In the case of a political question they are certainly talking about Transgender rights, of which Trump is vehemently opposed to.
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;50698494]i'm not a trump supporter in anyway
but really the trump supporters in this thread are being far more reasonable than the anti trump ones
like calm down, they never attacked you personally, don't be so childish, do you fear trump so much that you go rabid the moment you see a supporter? [i]do the words "I support trump" trigger you[/i]
regardless of who sanders endorses, i won't vote out of fear of trump, and will still not vote for clinton[/QUOTE]
I'm happy to be a dick to someone who staunchly defends Trump without actually knowing why. If people clamor that Trump is anti-PC and that's a good thing, I'll be anti-PC and if they get offended by it they should just suck it up and get a thicker skin.
When you offer reasonable, cited sources criticizing someone's position, and they ignore it and get offended that you're challenging them at all, they're idiots and should be mocked for holding an opinion without using their brain to think about that opinion. Sorry, I guess we should be more PC to Trump supporters, you're right.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50698520]I'm happy to be a dick to someone who staunchly defends Trump without actually knowing why. If people clamor that Trump is anti-PC and that's a good thing, I'll be anti-PC and if they get offended by it they should just suck it up and get a thicker skin.
When you offer reasonable, cited sources criticizing someone's position, and they ignore it and get offended that you're challenging them at all, they're idiots and should be mocked for holding an opinion without using their brain to think about that opinion. Sorry, I guess we should be more PC to Trump supporters, you're right.[/QUOTE]
you should treat others how you wish to be treated. if they're being respectful then there's no need to go rabid
this is how you push people away, then whatever chance that they change their mind is gone.
and it's not pushing away trump supporters, it's pushing away other people as well.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50698413]Depends, is it gender identity as in transgender, or "gender" "identity" as in two-spirited bi-demipunk fox-kin? Because transgender is real, but the other is mental illness.[/QUOTE]
Which one sounds like the most reaaonable thing to ask a presidential candidate? What issues have been in the spotlight lately?
With these i mind it is pretty obvious they meant transgenderism and not otherkin fox grandpas.
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;50698494]i'm not a trump supporter in anyway
but really the trump supporters in this thread are being far more reasonable than the anti trump ones
like calm down, they never attacked you personally, don't be so childish, do you fear trump so much that you go rabid the moment you see a supporter? [I]do the words "I support trump" trigger you[/I]
regardless of who sanders endorses, i won't vote out of fear of trump, and will still not vote for clinton, i would rather throw away my vote on a third party[/QUOTE]
it isn't like Pvt Martin just wandered in here for the first time and said "Oh hey guys, I support Trump" and we all leaped on him
he's been parroting the same regurgitated trump rhetoric for weeks, continually refusing to address any of the arguments against his claims despite how well supported they are. Of fucking course people are going to start calling him out.
This happens constantly, where Trump supporters drop in, repeat something they heard their lord and savior say on TV or twitter, ignore every argument against their position, and then the moment people get frustrated and say an unkind word towards them act like they're being forced into fucking concentration camps.
So you know what, if they don't want to have a calm, reasonable discussion, if they think that Trump is so fucking great, then why should I give them anything less than the Trump treatment?
Why bother putting in more effort than they do?
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50698520]I'm happy to be a dick to someone who staunchly defends Trump without actually knowing why. If people clamor that Trump is anti-PC and that's a good thing, I'll be anti-PC and if they get offended by it they should just suck it up and get a thicker skin.
When you offer reasonable, cited sources criticizing someone's position, and they ignore it and get offended that you're challenging them at all, they're idiots and should be mocked for holding an opinion without using their brain to think about that opinion. Sorry, I guess we should be more PC to Trump supporters, you're right.[/QUOTE]
using underhanded tactics and malicious words towards those with unpopular opinions does not make them want to rethink their ideals, it simply forces them deeper into their hole. in order to convince somebody to at least consider what you're saying you need to be acceptive, receptive and most of all [U]respectful.[/U] all that has happened to Pvt. Martin is this thread was that he is now further entrenched in his belief for Trump than he was previously because a considerable amount of people rabidly attacked him rather than having a civil discussion.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50698564]it isn't like Pvt Martin just wandered in here for the first time and said "Oh hey guys, I support Trump" and we all leaped on him
he's been parroting the same regurgitated trump rhetoric for weeks, continually refusing to address any of the arguments against his claims despite how well supported they are. Of fucking course people are going to start calling him out.
This happens constantly, where Trump supporters drop in, repeat something they heard their lord and savior say on TV or twitter, ignore every argument against their position, and then the moment people get frustrated and say an unkind word towards them act like they're being forced into fucking concentration camps.
So you know what, if they don't want to have a calm, reasonable discussion, if they think that Trump is so fucking great, then why should I give them anything less than the Trump treatment?
Why bother putting in more effort than they do?[/QUOTE]
then ignore him like it's clear he's baiting you
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;50698541]you should treat others how you wish to be treated. if they're being respectful then there's no need to go rabid
this is how you push people away, then whatever chance that they change their mind is gone.[/QUOTE]
While I see your point, just look at Martins first three posts in this thread and you'll realize he willingly gave up the chance to change his mind long ago and isn't looking to learn from discussing. He's voting trump, wether you like it or not.
[editline]12th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;50698574]then ignore him like it's clear he's baiting you[/QUOTE]
His posts are too wild to ignore
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