• Bernie Sanders surges ahead of Hillary Clinton in new Iowa poll
    53 replies, posted
McCain had honour and refused to stoop the level of the stooges we see running for the republican ticket. Jon Huntsman from what I remember seemed like the more moderare of the candidates in 2012 when the right was slowly growing more and more extreme. Unfortunately being moderate gets you no where. Hoping Trump wins the repub ticket so the party is blown up into pieces.
Bernie speaks with an authenticity, and like he actually gives a shit. Not like Hillary or any other Republican, even Obama, who sounds extremely scripted.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];49591490']This, exactly Bernie looks tense, almost nervous. He clenches the podium and yells and never seems to relax or speak casually. It doesn't seem presidential, rather like a community organizer. I don't know if I can see him delivering a state of the union address.[/QUOTE] Rephrased: "I want a marketer or an actor" You should be happy with seeing genuine personal displeasure with how things are.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;49591802]Rephrased: "I want a marketer or an actor" You should be happy with seeing genuine personal displeasure with how things are.[/QUOTE] No, I don't want a marketer. That's far from a point that defines my opinions on him as a candidate. It's just something I was glad to see being pointed out, because I hadn't really pinpointed it before, but it had bothered me. There is much more to the man than speaking ability, but it is something to note.
[QUOTE=rilez;49584941]Democrats don't really have the same problem.[/QUOTE] you're literally in a thread about the more extreme, ideological candidate overtaking the moderate candidate like holy shit dude you realize it was progressives that elected dubya in 2000 right
Sanders is as far or further left than any electable European party. He is the definition of extremist.
[QUOTE=sgman91;49595493]Sanders is as far or further left than any electable European party. He is the definition of extremist.[/QUOTE] What? Most of the stuff he wants is literally standard for europe.. edit: Unless you're referring to the whole breaking up big banks and stuff, but honestly we have huge corruption issues in this country that I really think SHOULD absolutely be exposed or minimized/mitigated.
[QUOTE=soulharvester;49595515]What? Most of the stuff he wants is literally standard for europe..[/QUOTE] What issue is Sanders further right on than the far left parties of Europe? I'm not even insulting the man. It's just silly to pretend that he isn't an extreme leftist.
[QUOTE=sgman91;49595493]Sanders is as far or further left than any electable European party. He is the definition of extremist.[/QUOTE] Stop watching Fox "News".
[QUOTE=sgman91;49595522]What issue is Sanders further right on than the far left parties of Europe? I'm not even insulting the man. It's just silly to pretend that he isn't an extreme leftist.[/QUOTE] He's a socialist. To call him an "Extreme leftist" is unfair, but most of his socialist policy is already standard for European first world countries.
[QUOTE=sgman91;49595522]What issue is Sanders further right on than the far left parties of Europe? I'm not even insulting the man. It's just silly to pretend that he isn't an extreme leftist.[/QUOTE] I can't really say on what points he is further right (okay gun laws come to mind), but I can't reallytell you where he's further left either compared to danish parties. Bernie isn't extreme. Trump is, though, and that I can say with a 100% confidence.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;49595615]I can't really say on what points he is further right (okay gun laws come to mind), but I can't reallytell you where he's further left either compared to danish parties. Bernie isn't extreme. Trump is, though, and that I can say with a 100% confidence.[/QUOTE] Saying that Sanders is at least equal to the leftist parties in one of the furthest left nations on earth basically proves my point. On the world's stage he's far left and in the US he's an extremist. As a side note, I despise Trump. You won't find me defending his positions.
[QUOTE=soulharvester;49595537]He's a socialist. To call him an "Extreme leftist" is unfair, but most of his socialist policy is already standard for European first world countries.[/QUOTE] scandanavian social democracies were built from the ground up to support social democracy and are very stable in that regard single payer overnight, a robinhood tax, rapid changes in federal income and capital gains tax brackets would have huge implications on american society these are extreme positions and by definition more radical than mainstream european party platforms [editline]24th January 2016[/editline] the amount they change things is what makes it radical I mean
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;49595457]you're literally in a thread about the more extreme, ideological candidate overtaking the moderate candidate like holy shit dude you realize it was progressives that elected dubya in 2000 right[/QUOTE] Actually, Bernie and Hillary are similar in a lot of ways. They agree on most issues. And since there's only two likely candidates (sorry O'Malley,) that's a pretty good indicator of where the Democratic party is located ideologically. Hillary is still leading in many polls though, despite being the moderate choice. Saying that Bernie has "overtaken" her is just wrong, although he's doing much better than he was. The Republican nominee with the highest public approval is Trump. Cruz is ahead in Iowa, and Rubio isn't far behind. Jeb Bush, the establishment moderate, is polling single digits. Chris Christie, also a moderate, has an almost zero percent chance of winning in Iowa or New Hampshire. So the opposite is happening with the Republicans; the more extreme candidates are the ones pulling ahead in the polls. Okay, maybe it's because Bush and Christie are poor candidates... probably not though. The Republican party is a hell of a lot more conservative than it was in 2000 and 2008, and the leading candidates reflect this change. There has been no equivalent political movement in the Democratic party. [editline]24th January 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=sgman91;49595656]Saying that Sanders is at least equal to the leftist parties in one of the furthest left nations on earth basically proves my point. On the world's stage he's far left and in the US he's an extremist.[/QUOTE] I'd say far-left in the US, progressive on the world stage. Personally, I view Sanders as a progressive.
He's similar enough to FDR for me that I don't think he's too extreme. Things like breaking up the banks, truly universal healthcare, infrastructure jobs bills, expanding social security, wall street regulations, raising min wage, all have been pushed by previous progressive presidents and leaders. People seem to forget that America has a decent history in support of progressive values. And on higher education, Obama has proposed 2 years of 'free' community college, Biden has come out in support of 16 years of 'free' education, and Hillary has her own plan that would make college debt free for many. It isn't radical. So now that we have a candidate who dreams big we call him radical. Maybe it's because he calls himself a democratic socialist, but so did MJK, Mark Twain, Oscar Wilde, Albert Einstein, Helen Keller and many others. For god's sake, our Pledge of Allegiance was written by a christian socialist. Point I'm making is that the Red Scare was a success it seems even after decades. We all know he's more of a Social Democrat in his policies anyways.
[QUOTE=rilez;49595798]Actually, Bernie and Hillary are similar in a lot of ways. They agree on most issues. And since there's only two likely candidates (sorry O'Malley,) that's a pretty good indicator of where the Democratic party is located ideologically. Hillary is still leading in many polls though, despite being the moderate choice. Saying that Bernie has "overtaken" her is just wrong, although he's doing much better than he was. The Republican nominee with the highest public approval is Trump. Cruz is ahead in Iowa, and Rubio isn't far behind. Jeb Bush, the establishment moderate, is polling single digits. Chris Christie, also a moderate, has an almost zero percent chance of winning in Iowa or New Hampshire. So the opposite is happening with the Republicans; the more extreme candidates are the ones pulling ahead in the polls. Okay, maybe it's because Bush and Christie are poor candidates... probably not though. The Republican party is a hell of a lot more conservative than it was in 2000 and 2008, and the leading candidates reflect this change. There has been no equivalent political movement in the Democratic party. [editline]24th January 2016[/editline] I'd say far-left in the US, progressive on the world stage. Personally, I view Sanders as a progressive.[/QUOTE] They do not agree on most issues. Hilary simply latches onto what's popular for all Americans. Bernie has stuck with his views for decades and now they re popular.
[QUOTE=sgman91;49595656]Saying that Sanders is at least equal to the leftist parties in one of the furthest left nations on earth basically proves my point. On the world's stage he's far left and in the US he's an extremist. As a side note, I despise Trump. You won't find me defending his positions.[/QUOTE] or perhaps America's political compass is the one that's fucked up if pretty much the entirety of Europe would consider him center-left?
Bernie is well to the right of what would be a left-wing politician here, IE Jeremy Corbyn. He's a moderate on gun control by US standards, meaning way way to the right of anyone over here. Prepared to intervene militarily if needed (against Iraq/Afganistan wars, but backed NATO in Kosovo and wouldn't have stood by during Rwandan Genocide etc), again this is well to the right of people like Corbyn who seem to be strictly non-intervention regardless of circumstances. On healthcare, education, civil rights etc he would be moderate-center over here. The only point on which he would even be left of center in Europe is breaking up banks that are too large to fail, and even that's not too far left, not like he's proposing nationalization of banks or anything. So by european standards Bernie would be center, with one or two points slightly right or left of the norm. Even compared to US politicians Bernie isn't that far left, if you look past the democratic socialist label he is at most a reform-minded moderate, and indeed is right of Hilary on issues like gun control.
from my point of view, sanders seems to target the gun violence primarily to mental health care in the US (and education as well), two big areas which need absolute concentration I'd say with his groundwork and not really touching too much on gun control (as much as id like), he'd probably bring violence down dramatically [editline]25th January 2016[/editline] Clinton hits these notes by saying Sanders is a gun defender and bullshit when really he knows the best course of action isn't to completely avoid the failing health care service in the country, honestly its not that radical
[QUOTE=The mouse;49590546]I hate to burst your bubble guys but [URL="http://loras.edu/About-Loras/News-Events/News/2016/Clinton-Maintains-Lead,-New-Loras-College-Poll-Fin.aspx"]another poll shows the exact opposite[/URL][/QUOTE] [url]http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/[/url] I've been following these polls pretty closely. If you look at all of the polls, you will see that this one from Loras college and another have been consistently in favor of Clinton moreso than the other polls. Also keep in mind that most of these are done via landlines and cold calling which are inherently biased toward older demographics. So even these polls may be underestimating Sanders' support to an extent.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49595917]They do not agree on most issues. Hilary simply latches onto what's popular for all Americans. Bernie has stuck with his views for decades and now they re popular.[/QUOTE] No, they really do agree on a lot of issues. Bernie has been more steadfast in the past decades, but they agree on: - Easier path to citizenship - Lowering the cost of education (Bernie wants to go further, but neither believe the Federal Gov't should profit on student loan debt) - End of private prisons - Taxing Wall Street (Hillary wants to tax HFT, Bernie wants to tax speculative trades) - No to TPP (yes, this is recent for Hillary) - Body cameras for officers - Plans to reduce climate change (they're both big into solar energy) - Raising minimum wage (12$ for Hillary, 15$ for Bernie) [B]- Campaign Finance Reform[/B] - yes, even Hillary Clinton supports overturning Citizens United and public PAC disclosures. She has accepted PAC money, though. Hillary and Bernie disagree mostly on foreign policy, and healthcare. Clinton supports US involvement in the Middle East, and a NFZ over Syria. Bernie recognizes the threat of ISIS, but ultimately believes it is the responsibility of the region to handle. Bernie wants to overhaul healthcare, and has big plans to do so. Hillary wants to expand on Obamacare. Bernie is (in my opinion) more compassionate about what he's saying, which is also important. But they do align on a lot of issues. [editline]24th January 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Splash Attack;49597511][url]http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/[/url] I've been following these polls pretty closely. If you look at all of the polls, you will see that this one from Loras college and another have been consistently in favor of Clinton moreso than the other polls. Also keep in mind that most of these are done via landlines and cold calling which are inherently biased toward older demographics. So even these polls may be underestimating Sanders' support to an extent.[/QUOTE] RealClearPolitics isn't a reliable polling website to begin with, and older demographics are more likely to actually vote in November.
[QUOTE=sgman91;49595493]Sanders is as far or further left than any electable European party. He is the definition of extremist.[/QUOTE] Are you kidding me? Even though Sanders is the closest thing to a real social democrat to ever run for president in the US, he is by far not "the definition of extremist". I'd say he is comparable to many of the right/libertarian leaning-central candidates in Danish politics for example. As far as I understand, his focus is less on "glory for America" and more on the living conditions of the everyday US citizen.
Hilary may say she'll over turn CU(citizens United), but she won't because they pay her bills and she owes them favours for that. Bernies the only one who will and that single reason should be enough to get him in, CU is a travesty that needs to be removed.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49598029]Hilary may say she'll over turn CU(citizens United), but she won't because they pay her bills and she owes them favours for that. Bernies the only one who will and that single reason should be enough to get him in, CU is a travesty that needs to be removed.[/QUOTE] Well, that's why I mentioned that she has accepted PAC money. Sanders is taking campaign finance reform more seriously. Hillary mentioned appointing Justices that she believed would be willing to overturn CU, whereas Bernie would more likely introduce a bill or an amendment to do so.
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