Mute Air Force Veteran with advanced Alzheimer's murdered after ringing doorbell: Stand Your Ground - Polidicks

[QUOTE=1chains1;43070805]The ability to put yourself in someone elses shoes. Obviously you don't have any as you can't seem to put yourself in the shooters situation. Or if you do, you do so thinking that you would somehow be able to make extremely logical and thought out decisions in the heat of the moment. Again, you people don't even present good arguments, you just attack some unrelated point in my post and cling to it.[/QUOTE] "heat of the moment" you're going on like this happened in 5 seconds. His wife was already through to dispatch, which can take a bit of time. He unlocked the door, walked out, tried to talk to the old man, got frustrated when he didn't get a response, fired 4 shots. Doesn't seem like heat of the moment to me..Maybe you're just insane?

[QUOTE=1chains1;43070839]See look, a point in my argument exactly. You just simplify the situation to the most extreme. "oh the guy just ringed the doorbell and the guy shot him!!" Yea there were no other factors at play at all.[/QUOTE] Praying you never own a firearm.

[QUOTE=1chains1;43070839]See look, a point in my argument exactly. You just simplify the situation to the most extreme. "oh the guy just ringed the doorbell and the guy shot him!!" Yea there were no other factors at play at all.[/QUOTE] You're right, sorry. A delusional, 72 year old, mute veteran ringed a doorbell and got shot!!

"Hey guys im done with talking to you IDIOTS" *5 seconds pass* WOW YOU RLLY THINK UR RIGHT??! IM DONE TALKING *5 seconds pass* WOW YOU GUYS ARE LACKING EMPATHY IM DONE. Continue?

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;43070858]Praying you never own a firearm.[/QUOTE] I hope you never join a debate team. How does anything I said in the post you quoted correlate to me being irresponsible with a firearm? The only thing I am arguing against is you people passing judgement with little to no information and a lack of empathy. Yet you seem to think I am saying you should go out shooting every mild threat and going max payne everywhere. [QUOTE] "Hey guys im done with talking to you IDIOTS" *5 seconds pass* WOW YOU RLLY THINK UR RIGHT??! IM DONE TALKING *5 seconds pass* WOW YOU GUYS ARE LACKING EMPATHY IM DONE. Continue?[/QUOTE] Damn, I like to defend my opinion just like you! You got me!!! edit - except I dont resort to childish jokes and insults. Also I totally type everything in caps like that, accurate representation!

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;43067944]minorities, especially, receive very little protection from these laws when attempting to use them in their own defense, and when used [I]against[/I] minorities they are overwhelmingly a negative thing. [img]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/art/cats/cj/graph072512.png[/img] SYG laws, at the very least, need to be much more clearly defined and regulated, because as they currently exist they do more harm than good, and doubly so where minorities are involved.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure it was white on white, right? If so, stop shitting bricks over what you assume is racism. You do it nonstop.

[QUOTE=1chains1;43070883]I hope you never join a debate team. How does anything I said in the post you quoted correlate to me being irresponsible with a firearm? The only thing I am arguing against is you people passing judgement with little to no information and a lack of empathy. Yet you seem to think I am saying you should go out shooting every mild threat and going max payne everywhere. Damn, I like to defend my opinion just like you! You got me!!![/QUOTE] There's more than enough information to pass judgement, and yes, you very much sound like you would be an irresponsible firearm owner. You almost stabbed a guy, who needed your help, and knew you, to death... Come the fuck on.

[QUOTE=1chains1;43070883] Damn, I like to defend my opinion just like you! You got me!!! [/QUOTE] Uh, okay well if you like to defend your opinion, stop saying you're going to leave whenever someone disagrees with you, you're acting like an angsty teen crying suicide when things aren't going your way. Man up bruh. [editline]4th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=1chains1;43070883] I hope you never join a debate team. [/QUOTE] Ahha, like you'd be any better, storming off the stage when you don't get your way.

[QUOTE=mobrockers;43070918]There's more than enough information to pass judgement, and yes, you very much sound like you would be an irresponsible firearm owner. You almost stabbed a guy, who needed your help, and knew you, to death... Come the fuck on.[/QUOTE] Yea man I totally knew it was a guy who needed my help and I was totally going to jump on him regardless and stab him repeatedly screaming blood for the blood god! Or you know I asked him to get away from my window and prepared to stab him AFTER he started moving towards me? And even then, I didn't. [QUOTE] Uh, okay well if you like to defend your opinion, stop saying you're going to leave whenever someone disagrees with you, you're acting like an angsty teen crying suicide when things aren't going your way. Man up bruh.[/QUOTE] Difference between defending it from a respectful person with a well thought out opinion, and defending it from a person who resorts to making snide insults every post. You're right I would walk off the stage if I had to debate someone like you, as it wouldn't be a debate and wouldn't be worth my time. Also an angsty suicide teen? Where do you even pull this stuff from? And that kind of helps my lack of empathy argument, seeing as you throw around suicidal people as a joke.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;43070897]I'm pretty sure it was white on white, right? If so, stop shitting bricks over what you assume is racism. You do it nonstop.[/QUOTE] The very first line in the post is, "[I]Even if it's not applicable in this specific scenario...[/I]" I'm criticizing the current state of justifiable homicide laws, which are deeply biased against minorities, [I]not[/I] this specific story. How about you read the first line a post before shitting bricks over what you assume is somebody trying to make this case into a race issue? :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;43070585]No, I just wouldn't have gone outside and shot somebody for ringing my damn doorbell.[/QUOTE] That's not what happened The guy asked the vet what he was doing at 4 AM on his yard. He didn't reply because he's a mute, and the vet most likely walked over to him, still in an alzheimer's daze. The shooter, panicked due to his brain trying to function at 4AM and unable to make the best decisions, shot after a fright. We all make stupid mistakes, but this guy didn't know what the fuck was going on and was pretty confused and rightfully so. Like 1chains1 said, you probably haven't been in that situation, so don't make a judgment just yet.

[QUOTE=1chains1;43070957] Also an angsty suicide teen? Where do you even pull this stuff from? And that kind of helps my lack of empathy argument, seeing as you throw around suicidal people as a joke.[/QUOTE] I pull it from you, ranting and raving about how none of us could handle this situation then claiming you're leaving because of our incompetence, yet you keep coming back. Says alot about you, don't you think? I haven't even insulted you until I called you an angsty teen. Maybe you just take the internet too seriously?

[QUOTE=zombays;43071007]That's not what happened The guy asked the vet what he was doing at 4 AM on his yard. He didn't reply because he's a mute, and the vet most likely walked over to him, still in an alzheimer's daze. The shooter, panicked due to his brain trying to function at 4AM and unable to make the best decisions, shot after a fright. We all make stupid mistakes, but this [B]guy didn't know what the fuck was going on and was pretty confused[/B] and rightfully so. Like 1chains1 said, you probably haven't been in that situation, so don't make a judgment just yet.[/QUOTE] The fuck is wrong with you if you think that justifies killing a man.

[QUOTE=zombays;43071007]That's not what happened The guy asked the vet what he was doing at 4 AM on his yard. He didn't reply because he's a mute, and the vet most likely walked over to him, still in an alzheimer's daze. The shooter, panicked due to his brain trying to function at 4AM and unable to make the best decisions, shot after a fright. We all make stupid mistakes, but this guy didn't know what the fuck was going on and was pretty confused and rightfully so. Like 1chains1 said, you probably haven't been in that situation, so don't make a judgment just yet.[/QUOTE] Maybe it's just an American culture thing but I really can't see any justification for this. So a man walked up to you in a dazed state (pretty common for the senile) and you..panic and shoot him? I'm sorry but a 72 year old man in a dazed state is not going to beat you to death. And since when the fuck do you need to be an expert on anything to judge it? I know Justin Biebers music sucks, I don't need to be musically inclined to know that. Just like I don't have to be an expert on law and morals to know that killing an elderly man because you're confused is just plain wrong.

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;43071021]I pull it from you, ranting and raving about how none of us could handle this situation then claiming you're leaving because of our incompetence, yet you keep coming back. Says alot about you, don't you think? I haven't even insulted you until I called you an angsty teen. Maybe you just take the internet too seriously?[/QUOTE] I said none of you have been in the situation so you wouldn't know how you would act given the circumstances. Yet you seem to be hellbent on exaggerating everything. Angsty teen was not the first insult, you have made snide posts the entire duration here and even entered the thread mocking me in all caps. You have not done one respectful post, and you act like I slapped you all when I said your opinion obviously isn't going to change. Was I wrong? Is your opinion going to change? I said I was going to leave because people like you can't seem to handle arguments and resort to crude jokes and insults instead of trying to be a bit more respectful to your fellow man.

[QUOTE=mobrockers;43071035]The fuck is wrong with you if you think that justifies killing a man.[/QUOTE] No, it doesn't, but that's the thing about confusion. It can't be justified, there can't be a good excuse, but that shit happens. This is reality, people sometimes don't know what the fuck they're doing or what the fuck is going, or sometimes both. To say you would have acted a little more civil is horseshit, because you're human and humans fuck up and we're not always 100% there, as this guy was when he woke up in 4AM. [editline]4th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Arc Nova;43071049]Maybe it's just an American culture thing but I really can't see any justification for this. So a man walked up to you in a dazed state (pretty common for the senile) and you..panic and shoot him? I'm sorry but a 72 year old man in a dazed state is not going to beat you to death. And since when the fuck do you need to be an expert on anything to judge it? I know Justin Biebers music sucks, I don't need to be musically inclined to know that. Just like I don't have to be an expert on law and morals to know that killing an elderly man because you're confused is just plain wrong.[/QUOTE] Goddamn, you're missing the point. You're right, but THAT'S THE THING! Neither parties were in their right state of mind and this sort of shit happens. And yes, elderly people can still kill people, they're not fucking useless.

[QUOTE=zombays;43071074]No, it doesn't, but that's the thing about confusion. It can't be justified, there can't be a good excuse, but that shit happens. This is reality, people sometimes don't know what the fuck they're doing or what the fuck is going, or sometimes both. To say you would have acted a little more civil is horseshit, because you're human and humans fuck up and we're not always 100% there, as this guy was when he woke up in 4AM. [editline]4th December 2013[/editline] Goddamn, you're missing the point. You're right, but THAT'S THE THING! Neither parties were in their right state of mind and this sort of shit happens. And yes, elderly people can still kill people, they're not fucking useless.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what you're arguing for then?? Even if it was a confused mistake, doesn't mean he shouldn't go to jail for fucking killing a man.

[QUOTE=1chains1;43070066]Man, facepunch sh always seems to be under the hindsight is 20/20 effect. Yea, I think the shooter overreacted and shouldn't of shot the guy, but I guarantee most of you havn't even been in a situation remotely similar to this, so you have no idea how you yourself would've acted faced with this. But most of you play battlefield so I am sure you would taken command of the situation at 4 am, grabbed a flash light immediately with your super organized thoughts and used your immense knowledge of nonverbal communication to subdue the person. So lets look at this realistically, the old man was probably just as confused and could've stumbled forward to the person hoping for help. In the dark, you see a person ignoring your commands moving oddly towards you, I am sure you all would've had ages to make a well thought out decision using your advanced training, right? Get real, life is never as easy and clean cut as you people seem to believe.[/QUOTE] if i own a fucking gun and shoot some random old dude on my yard because he's not following my instructions i'm the antithesis of a responsible gun owner

Like, do you think I refuse to believe accidents happen? How could you possibly think that's what I'm saying.

[QUOTE=1chains1;43070883]I hope you never join a debate team. [/QUOTE] wow. yeah bda he's right here. your skills are sorely lacking

[QUOTE=mobrockers;43071127]Like, do you think I refuse to believe accidents happen? How could you possibly think that's what I'm saying.[/QUOTE] Well it is similar to you and your group assuming I am supporting the guy who shot the old man, when I am arguing something completely different.

[QUOTE=1chains1;43071144]Well it is similar to you and your group assuming I am supporting the guy who shot the old man, when I am arguing something completely different.[/QUOTE] [quote]So lets look at this realistically, the old man was probably just as confused and could've stumbled forward to the person hoping for help. [B]In the dark, you see a person ignoring your commands moving oddly towards you, I am sure you all would've had ages to make a well thought out decision using your advanced training, right? [/B][/quote] sure sounds like implied justification to me!

[QUOTE=1chains1;43071144]Well it is similar to you and your group assuming I am supporting the guy who shot the old man, when I am arguing something completely different.[/QUOTE] I do believe I was asking zombays what [B]he[/B] meant by [B]his[/B] post.

[QUOTE=mobrockers;43071119]I'm not sure what you're arguing for then?? Even if it was a confused mistake, doesn't mean he shouldn't go to jail for fucking killing a man.[/QUOTE] The thing is, the guy had Alzheimer's. My grandpa has late-stage dementia and when they tried to put him in a home, he cold-cocked the nurse in the jaw. Confused people are always the most dangerous, and both parties were confused. Volatile reaction right there. He felt threatened by a guy standing in his yard at 4AM who wouldn't respond to anything he said who most likely was approaching him and so he shot him. Did he make anywhere near a good decision? No. He fucked up, I never said he shouldn't go to jail, he should because he killed a guy who was actually unarmed. But [B]HE DIDN'T KNOW THAT[/B] Like 1chains1 said, you guys are the kings of hindsight [B]HIND[/B]sight. You know it's wrong now, but the guy at 4AM didn't and he was terrified, we don't know what happened exactly, definitely not you.

[QUOTE=1chains1;43070651]Well I am done for now, it is obvious none of you are going to get off your high horse[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=1chains1;43070747]This is going no where, have a nice day[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=1chains1;43070839]But of course you people obviously aren't going to do that, so have a nice day.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=1chains1;43070957]You're right I would walk off the stage if I had to debate someone like you[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=1chains1;43071068] I said I was going to leave because people like you can't seem to handle arguments and resort to crude jokes and insults instead of trying to be a bit more respectful to your fellow man.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;43071158]sure sounds like implied justification to me![/QUOTE] He said realistically, he never said it was justified.

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;43071158]sure sounds like implied justification to me![/QUOTE] Sure if I was arguing for the guy. I was arguing for more empathy and realizing not everything is as black and white you people seem to believe.You people jump to conclusions and pass judgement when to be honest if yall were placed in a similar situation you would probably act different than what you stated here. You may not shoot the guy, but expecting him to be an epitome of logical decisions after immediately waking up at 4 am to someone trying to open your front door is ridiculous. edit - Also BDA, I am glad you responded so maturely with a well thought out response, instead of not focusing on the argument and just nitpicking my posts in some attempt to disqualify what I say.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;43070979]The very first line in the post is, "[I]Even if it's not applicable in this specific scenario...[/I]" I'm criticizing the current state of justifiable homicide laws, which are deeply biased against minorities, [I]not[/I] this specific story. How about you read the first line a post before shitting bricks over what you assume is somebody trying to make this case into a race issue? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] So instead of arguing about the case, you wanna pull race out of your ass to argue about? Not the law even. The racial perspective of the law.

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;43071120]if i own a fucking gun and shoot some random old dude on my yard because he's not following my instructions i'm selling that gun asap[/QUOTE] That's good, that's responsible, but it was an old dude with alzheimer's who was a mute and it was at night.

[QUOTE=zombays;43071185]The thing is, the guy had Alzheimer's. My grandpa has late-stage dementia and when they tried to put him in a home, he cold-cocked the nurse in the jaw. Confused people are always the most dangerous, and both parties were confused. Volatile reaction right there. He felt threatened by a guy standing in his yard at 4AM who wouldn't respond to anything he said who most likely was approaching him and so he shot him. Did he make anywhere near a good decision? No. He fucked up, I never said he shouldn't go to jail, he should because he killed a guy who was actually unarmed. But [B]HE DIDN'T KNOW THAT[/B] Like 1chains1 said, you guys are the kings of hindsight [B]HIND[/B]sight. You know it's wrong now, but the guy at 4AM didn't and he was terrified, we don't know what happened exactly, definitely not you.[/QUOTE] 72 year old man walking 4 miles at night with alzheimers he's about a .000003/10 intimidation there is no fucking reason ever that he should have pulled the trigger, especially with the fact that it happened on the yard not the porch. after the old man starts hobbling away, he follows him, and then gets so intimidated that he shoots him how does that work