• Texas will run out of lethal injection drugs in September due to growing supplier boycott
    117 replies, posted
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;41693028] oh and just in case you weren't sure, Alaska isn't really east of Florida.[/QUOTE] Yeah everyone knows it's in a box west of California
[QUOTE=SubbyV-2;41694563]eye for an eye makes the whole world blind[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uXBXi0q7VM[/media] Though seriously, they should just give you life in prison if you do stuff like kill people or rape. Making someone spend the rest of their life regretting what they did is better than strait killing them. And if they happen to be innocent, they got a chance of getting out.
[QUOTE=bravehat;41694615]It makes the bad people die. Literally that's the only excuse you could possibly make for the death penalty in it's favour, on the other hand there's always a chance that the guy shouting "I'm innocent I swear to fucking God!" might actually be telling the truth.[/QUOTE] Actually the most common justification for it is that it acts a deterrent, whether you agree or not is different, I don't know of any lawmakers who's platform for the death penalty is, "The baddies die.".
[QUOTE=plunger435;41694707]Actually the most common justification for it is that it acts a deterrent, whether you agree or not is different, I don't know of any lawmakers who's platform for the death penalty is, "The baddies die.".[/QUOTE] Yeah man, killing all those killers really stops those other killers killing. Wait.
I guess if they get out the firing squad or something instead that's still an "improvement", wasn't there some study a while back saying that the lethal injection was in fact extremely fucking painful and it takes a while to actually kill the person? It might have been absolute bullshit though, I never looked into it properly
[QUOTE=Emperorconor;41694638]Why do you want him dead?[/QUOTE] him or her, because what's there purpose in life except to live? i'm talking about people who show no emotion about what they've done
[QUOTE=DaMastez;41693192]Regardless of what you think about the death penalty, no company should have the ability to force a government into changing their policies. Which is exactly what they are trying to do by refusing the supply the drugs.[/QUOTE]I'm fairly certain there's a law in most EU countries (or the EU itself) against supplying drugs for executions, that's why EU companies are refusing to sell them to the US. Apart from that, they likely do not want to be associated with executions. What're you gonna do about it, force them to sell to US states?
Why not just go back to using stones and burning at the stake? The death penalty is freaking primitive and neanderthal. It amazes me to no end the stupidity of people trying to justify lethal injection as a "humane" method. Sorry chump, you kill a man for justice you're still a murderer. The fact we have entire nations supporting this...I just don't even :v:
[QUOTE=bravehat;41694632]The result is still shit, innocent people die.[/QUOTE] You really can't stress this enough personally. It happened over here in Britain and was one of the major causes of the death penalty being withdrawn. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Evans[/url]
I'd rather have a high powered bullet to the head then lethal injection.
<snip> (I shouldn't be allowed to drive a keyboard)
texas is just going to move back to the electric chair.
[QUOTE=tirpider;41695774]So he doesn't kill my wife. Or your's, or my kids, or my grandkids. Unless you have a magic wand that fixes murder, removing the ability for them to continue to do it is the only thing. In some cases, this involves ending their ability to live.[/QUOTE] we do actually have a fix for that - it's called prison. it's a big bunch of concrete walls and steel doors that's constantly being watched by people who more than likely have guns and training. i mean, unless we're talking about some kind of dude who can kill people with his mind, i'd say that's a pretty good fix.
how hanging. The quickest and painless by fall that break people's neck.
<snip> (I shouldn't be allowed to drive a keyboard)
[QUOTE=tirpider;41695774]So he doesn't kill my wife. Or your's, or my kids, or my grandkids. Unless you have a magic wand that fixes murder, removing the ability for them to continue to do it is the only thing. In some cases, this involves ending their ability to live.[/QUOTE] Do you know what else stops a murderer? A life sentence in prison.
<snip> (I shouldn't be allowed to drive a keyboard)
[QUOTE=tirpider;41696316]Yep. We gots that too. Even in Killemback, Texas.[/QUOTE] Excellent, problem solved, slap em in prison and that's that.
[QUOTE=tirpider;41696176]Execution is more permanent. I'd much rather end the murderer than put him in a box with other criminals then let him out to see if he will do it again. That's just procrastination.[/QUOTE] well if America's justice system wasn't complete shit due to vindictive people like you not wanting to get a system that works then maybe you wouldn't have to worry about ex-cons going apeshit and killing people. you know, just a thought. [QUOTE=tirpider;41696176]It isn't like courts (and juries) are just shaking out death sentences like salt and pepper. There is also an (often lengthy) appeals process and other factors that can come into play to prevent the execution of a prisoner. All of it done through a hugely over-complicated set of laws that have been enacted through the oversight of every person that's ever been bothered to vote. That's assuming the person gets the death sentence to begin with.[/QUOTE] it's "over-complicated" so that you don't wind up killing innocent people by accident, trying to cut corners with the death penalty just results in innocent people slipping through the cracks and getting killed. due process is the most essential part of a functioning system, and the fact that you're acting like it's just bureaucratic red tape really betrays how completely vindictive you and everyone who agrees with you is. seriously, it's the basis of modern law! come the fuck on, really [QUOTE=tirpider;41696176]I think it is generously fair in sight of the heinous things you have to do to get a death sentence.[/QUOTE] are vigilantes excused under the basis that they could (and possibly should) have done far worse to their victims? no, because they're crazy and they killed someone. so what's the difference between when you mandate that someone has to die and when someone else does the same thing? how are you in any way above them, or even in a position to judge? what is the objective, factual difference? [QUOTE=tirpider;41696176]The folks getting executed aren't little angels being victimized by their keepers, they are brutal folks that have been determined to be a vital threat.[/QUOTE] yeah, but there's this thing called mental illness. you know, a sickness in your mind. it's the kind of thing that makes you shoot up a classroom full of kids because someone switched your coffee with freeze dried. because you wouldn't do that if you were sane, yeah? do you see where i'm going with this?
<snip> (I shouldn't be allowed to drive a keyboard)
[QUOTE=tirpider;41696503]Not your debate, m8. Immigrate and become a voting member of the state and have your say in a less impotent way. (edit- sorry for the smart-assery. I've been looking for a dumb way to use "m8" in context and I like the rhyme. You have a fine opinion, but it's just words in the air till you are in a position to actually do something about it.) (edit- And you are really oversimplifying and twisting the meaning of every single thing I said. You miss the point entirely and seem to be pushing a very naive view.)[/QUOTE] See the major problem with the death penalty in my opinion is that no matter how extensive the system is to prove someone is guilty, there will [b]always[/b] be innocent people falling through and ending up on death row and that is not acceptable at all, and to deny it is itself to be niave.
<snip> (I shouldn't be allowed to drive a keyboard)
[QUOTE=tirpider;41696763]It is the system that is in place. Ideological arguments for and against it are ongoing by folks with much more insight (and influence) on the matter than any of us on this forum. There is always a chance that it will change as various advocacy groups wax and wane in influence. The loss of lives is not the goal or even a common event, and until a real solution to mitigating violence (motivated by malice or 'tha crazies') is found, capital punishment plays a role as a deterrent and as a punishment. All that "red tape" dude mentioned above is indeed there to help both the accused and to protect even more innocent lives. It is not a nuisance as he implied I was suggesting. Every execution that is stopped is a victory for life. (Guess what, it even happens in Kill-Happy Texas. I'm sure that upsets all the folks who believe Texans are nothing but gun-toting beer-cow milkers, dragging blacks and homos to tha hangin tree.) Execution at the judgment and hands of your peers is a punishment reserved for the worst of actions. What accountability is there for wanton cruelty and murder? It's already subdivided into categories of manslaughter and degrees where various level of criteria must be met before the death penalty even becomes a consideration. Perfect solutions don't exist. Can you tell me violent crime (specifically murder) does not happen in the UK? I'm not talking per-capita rates or any of that crap. If it's still happening then it is not solved. Go a year without a body count then come back on a high horse about dead innocents.[/QUOTE] Yeah but here's the problem, the death sentence isn't a fucking deterrent. And yeah actually, the rate of murder in the UK is under half that in the US: [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country[/URL] And why the fuck do you keep going on about Texas being kill happy, I never even mentioned Texas, and regardless of any blockades put in place to make the system as tight and fool proof as possible it will never have a 100% effective rate, which means innocent people will die because of it, the only way to stop that is to end the death sentence. And let's have a little theoretical discussion, assume there's been a mass murderer, a true wean eating, kiddy raping monster, killed, raped and ate hundreds of babies. How does killing him help the situation in anyway beyond making grieving families feel better temporarily and why would that be grounds for the death sentence? I ask this because it's the only thing I can think of that could possibly make it somewhat reasonable. And we'll always have murder as long as there are people mate, we can't see the future so that's a completely fucking inane point.
[QUOTE=tirpider;41696763]It is the system that is in place. Ideological arguments for and against it are ongoing by folks with much more insight (and influence) on the matter than any of us on this forum. There is always a chance that it will change as various advocacy groups wax and wane in influence. The loss of lives is not the goal or even a common event, and until a real solution to mitigating violence (motivated by malice or 'tha crazies') is found, capital punishment plays a role as a deterrent and as a punishment. All that "red tape" dude mentioned above is indeed there to help both the accused and to protect even more innocent lives. It is not a nuisance as he implied I was suggesting. Every execution that is stopped is a victory for life. (Guess what, it even happens in Kill-Happy Texas. I'm sure that upsets all the folks who believe Texans are nothing but gun-toting beer-cow milkers, dragging blacks and homos to tha hangin tree.) Execution at the judgment and hands of your peers is a punishment reserved for the worst of actions. What accountability is there for wanton cruelty and murder? It's already subdivided into categories of manslaughter and degrees where various level of criteria must be met before the death penalty even becomes a consideration. Perfect solutions don't exist. Can you tell me violent crime (specifically murder) does not happen in the UK? I'm not talking per-capita rates or any of that crap. If it's still happening then it is not solved. Go a year without a body count then come back on a high horse about dead innocents.[/QUOTE] Your argument for capital punishment relies solely on the idea of keeping the US prison system as-is and just removing the death penalty. What you do not understand, deliberately or otherwise, is that's not what's being argued to you. Being a vindictive cock and locking people in boxes for dozens of years won't lower crime, you're right. Killing them is a slightly better option. But would you like to know an even better option? Giving them psychiatric help. Killing the mentally ill for commiting crimes is fucking dumb.
<snip> (I shouldn't be allowed to drive a keyboard)
[QUOTE=tirpider;41696763]The loss of lives is not the goal or even a common event, and until a real solution to mitigating violence (motivated by malice or 'tha crazies') is found, capital punishment plays a role as a deterrent and as a punishment.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates"]but it's not a deterrent though.[/URL] so i guess it's just a punishment, but oh wait, having a punishment that you physically cannot learn from is entirely fucking pointless. so it's a punishment you get all of one whole second to feel? seems like a pretty shitty of teaching people right from wrong [QUOTE=tirpider;41696763]All that "red tape" dude mentioned above is indeed there to help both the accused and to protect even more innocent lives. It is not a nuisance as he implied I was suggesting. Every execution that is stopped is a victory for life. (Guess what, it even happens in Kill-Happy Texas. I'm sure that upsets all the folks who believe Texans are nothing but gun-toting beer-cow milkers, dragging blacks and homos to tha hangin tree.)[/QUOTE] i haven't even said anything about Texas yet dude idk where you got that from [QUOTE=tirpider;41696763]Perfect solutions don't exist. Can you tell me violent crime (specifically murder) does not happen in the UK? I'm not talking per-capita rates or any of that crap. If it's still happening then it is not solved. Go a year without a body count then come back on a high horse about dead innocents.[/QUOTE] dude the fact that there will always be a body count could not be more irrelevant. it's about minimizing the death toll you silly man, not saying "oh well it'll always be a problem so FUCK IT you don't get a say." like no shit people in the UK die lol, we don't have the fucking secret to immortality lying around or anything [editline]3rd August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=tirpider;41697088]Article title:[B][B][U]Texas[/U][/B] will run out of lethal injection drugs in September due to growing supplier boycott[/B][/QUOTE] because the article is ABOUT TEXAS bro, they're not going to deliberately misinform the reader just so you don't feel persecuted
[QUOTE=tirpider;41697088]Seems like a good deterrent to me. Awful lot of murder happening. I bet they were all upset about the non-idealistic justice system in their own nations. Article title:[B][B][U]Texas[/U][/B] will run out of lethal injection drugs in September due to growing supplier boycott[/B] You win. What exactly would you do with that kind of person? You honestly think he wont try to eat his therapist? Preventative maintenance. Gets his violent ass off the world so we don't have to deal with the wake of his ways. The survivors of his killing spree don't have to live in fear of him showing up and finishing the job. There may be alternatives to the monster scenario you presented, though. I see nothing wrong with using him for experimental psychotherapy to further understand the nature of his madness. Know anyone willing to take on the task? You perhaps? Keep his chains locked up though, if he gets loose, well, it's just part of his justice. Get your ass to prison and start helping the mentally ill. (and before ya'll read meaning in that wasn't there, that means "go do something about it then, since you have the fucking answer.") You have the best point here. That mental illness is not to be punished but helped. I can't agree with that more. The cutting line is where that idealism meets reality. There are nowhere near enough qualified professionals to deal with the mentally ill that walk among us outside of prison, not to mention the handful willing to make a career of prison therapy. If you have a degree in clinical psychotherapy, I say it is your civic duty to work in a prison. Idealism is great if you have the balls to march to your own drum. Otherwise it's just hippies pissing in the wind.[/QUOTE] If there are nowhere near enough professionals to deal with prisoners, why does the rehabilitation strategy work so well in other countries?
How the fuck should I know? Ask the "other countries"? ... ... this is the part where I rage quit and say some stupid shit that gets me banned again. I'll just concede that you guys are better at talking points than I am. (and that I may be full of shit.) I'll admit to being a bit dumb, but all the assertions I made are based on what I feel is right. I stand firm in the belief that individuals with pathalogical behavior issues that are maladapted to the point that they kill with malice should be put to death for the safety of the population. I don't believe you are dumb for feeling otherwise. In fact, I am jealous of your ability to see a better world. This point by point arguing makes my arteries hurt though. I'm going to go smell some flowers or something. Give my crazy some rest.
[QUOTE=tirpider;41697406]How the fuck should I know? Ask the "other countries"? ... ... this is the part where I rage quit and say some stupid shit that gets me banned again. I'll just concede that you guys are better at talking points than I am. (and that I may be full of shit.) I'll admit to being a bit dumb, but all the assertions I made are based on what I feel is right. I stand firm in the belief that individuals with pathalogical behavior issues that are maladapted to the point that they kill with malice should be put to death for the safety of the population. I don't believe you are dumb for feeling otherwise. In fact, I am jealous of your ability to see a better world. This point by point arguing makes my arteries hurt though. I'm going to go smell some flowers or something. Give my crazy some rest.[/QUOTE] Right you see here's the problem. You're going by emotion, we're actually using logic and reason and then substantiating our claims.
This is bad i guess they can do hangings, they are cheaper. Capital Punishment is the only real way to keep crime rate low and stop criminals draining society of funds. Britian is a prime example of the crime system gone wrong, so many people in for life and is draining public funds and services.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.