• More Californians than ever want to secede from US
    167 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Cone;51735709]guess the 2nd amendment's not good for much then lol[/QUOTE] The second amendment is actually perfect for this. I'm just making the prediction that if California were to secede alone today, they would lose the battle. That doesn't make the whole amendment useless though.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51735711]You realize there is a massive Civil War going on right now in Syria, right? And 2 states seceded from Ukraine successfully in 2014 resulting in another bloody civil war. Don't "current year" me. If you don't think massive wars are possible today then you're delusional. This isn't the end of history. [sp]Now watch as somebody accuses me of advocating for bloodshed because of this post.[/sp][/QUOTE] But he obviously meant in the context of the US.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51735717]Ah so the backwater dictatorship of Syria and the tumultuously unstable Ukraine are totally comparable to the world's largest superpower[/QUOTE] They aren't great comparisons. But I would argue that we are not as far removed from these scenarios as we think. I just don't want people to fool themselves. Like I said, these are all unrealistic hypothetical arguments. But they aren't delusional.
I remember when the Texan die-hard republicans of 2008 years elections wanted to do the same and how they were ridiculed for their backwardness. Seems like the tables have turned and the most backward are now the die-hard democrats in California.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51735711]You realize there is a massive Civil War going on right now in Syria, right? And 2 states seceded from Ukraine successfully in 2014 resulting in another bloody civil war. Don't "current year" me. If you don't think massive wars are possible today then you're delusional. This isn't the end of history. [sp]Now watch as somebody accuses me of advocating for bloodshed because of this post.[/sp][/QUOTE] it's not a case of the "current year" meme. Its the context of what the USA was in the past (nothing) and is now (everything) Syria and Ukraine -did- have a lot of shit thrown over them, and their backwater countries without much say on the global stage. If you think the USA, as (one of) the most powerful nations on Earth, could just devolve in to civil war as the provoker against a leaving state without shit being thrown over it, you're 100% deluded.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51735729]But I would argue that we are not as far removed from these scenarios as we think.[/QUOTE] Then argue it.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51735711]You realize there is a massive Civil War going on right now in Syria, right? And 2 states seceded from Ukraine successfully in 2014 resulting in another bloody civil war. Don't "current year" me. If you don't think massive wars are possible today then you're delusional. This isn't the end of history. [sp]Now watch as somebody accuses me of advocating for bloodshed because of this post.[/sp][/QUOTE] First you compare 2017 USA to 1860 USA, and now you try to make up for it by comparing the political climate in USA with Ukraine and Syria ? You must have a very, very negative and pessimistic view of modern USA then.
Leaving the union helps no one at all. The USA loses a big chunk of its economy and then becomes republican for years to come and California will have to buddy up with someone as big as the USA to avoid having the USA come in and wreck their shit, someone like Russia or China. It would be a massive shitstorm that would probably turn very bloody. Also leaving the union seems like a permanent solution to a 4 year problem at worst.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51735684]Yeah. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War"]Its not like that has ever happened before.[/URL][/QUOTE] There reasons was different from today (Slavery and State rights = 1861 =/= Trump and Reactionary political culture that seen as 'toxic' = 2017)
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51735627]They don't have enough water to sustain themselves and their large economy. Also they can't leave legally. And if they left illegally they would be invaded and conquered. Actually, this doesn't sound like a bad idea. Maybe we can have a "California Reconstruction" and purge all the lefty filth from the state.[/QUOTE] What the fuck is your problem?
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51735627]They don't have enough water to sustain themselves and their large economy. Also they can't leave legally. And if they left illegally they would be invaded and conquered. Actually, this doesn't sound like a bad idea. Maybe we can have a "California Reconstruction" and purge all the lefty filth from the state.[/QUOTE] Many a truth is told in jest. Honestly with your white genocide bs yesterday I can't tell if you're ironic or just stupid. [QUOTE=Pantz Master;51735600]Good. If they leave they will secure Republican victories in the US forever.[/QUOTE] Then you can get people like George Bush, Carson, Palin, Trump and Bachmann without some pesky democrat coming along and restoring sanity. Nutty world for a nutty guy. [editline]27th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Pantz Master;51735729]They aren't great comparisons. But I would argue that we are not as far removed from these scenarios as we think. I just don't want people to fool themselves. Like I said, these are all unrealistic hypothetical arguments. But they aren't delusional.[/QUOTE] Hmm unpopular President without the plurality of the vote vs unpopular president who rigged the vote to get the majority. You're right. It's not too different.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51735627]They don't have enough water to sustain themselves and their large economy. Also they can't leave legally. And if they left illegally they would be invaded and conquered. Actually, this doesn't sound like a bad idea. Maybe we can have a "California Reconstruction" and purge all the lefty filth from the state.[/QUOTE] texas has a way bigger Independence movement than cali
[QUOTE=Sableye;51735769]texas has a way bigger Independence movement than cali[/QUOTE] Yea because Texas has been Independence from Mexico long than ten years than California have short Independence as for weeks.
These articles are always fucking dumb and shouldn't even be considered news. At any point in time people are wanting to secede from the US, and it never happens. Remember a few years ago, Obama won his second term and for months we kept hearing about how the south wanted to secede again? Didn't happen then either. And unless the US military loses all it's power, it never will.
It's rather childish to want to secede suddenly just because your presidential candidate (who's up for voting again in just 4 years) went into office. In 1860, there was a plurality of issues in the states that Lincoln's election pretty much became the climax of. In 2016, the only issue California has with Trump is that he's Trump and nothing more.
[QUOTE=cdr248;51735624]lmao nice sample size[/QUOTE] Every single thread about polls. Stop doing that when you have no knowledge about the topic.
[QUOTE=Firewarrior;51735876]Every single thread about polls. Stop doing that when you have no knowledge about the topic.[/QUOTE] To be fair, 500 isn't the ideal size. That'd be 1000.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51735834]In 2016, the only issue California has with Trump is that he's Trump and nothing more.[/QUOTE] You're really downplaying Trump
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;51735882]You're really downplaying Trump[/QUOTE] He's the president, not a king. He's a god-awful human being, but he doesn't have the ability to do whatever he pleases, especially when members of "his" own party are in contest with him half the time.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;51735882]You're really downplaying Trump[/QUOTE] Please stop having this Cult of Personality mindset, lol
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51735834]It's rather childish to want to secede suddenly just because your presidential candidate (who's up for voting again in just 4 years) went into office. In 1860, there was a plurality of issues in the states that Lincoln's election pretty much became the climax of. In 2016, the only issue California has with Trump is that he's Trump and nothing more.[/QUOTE] That's a bit reductionist. I mean, I agree that it's pretty ridiculous to be calling for secession right now, but the issue with Trump runs much deeper than the nameplate on the Oval Office's desk. Boiling this situation down to just being sore that their team didn't win is ignoring the fact that the president has real power. Everything he does will echo for decades, good or bad, and Trump has been pretty damn "bold" in his rhetoric and policy, to say the least.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51735877]To be fair, 500 isn't the ideal size. That'd be 1000.[/QUOTE] 500 is fine to prove any conclusions for a population the size of California's with a reasonable level of confidence.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51735898]He's the president, not a king. He's a god-awful human being, but he doesn't have the ability to do whatever he pleases, especially when members of "his" own party are in contest with him half the time.[/QUOTE] He can't do anything he pleases, but you're seriously underestating what he [I]can[/I] do. The office of the president is not an all-powerful position, but it [B]does[/B] have power, and quite a bit of it. In less than a week, for example, Donald Trump has completely sabotaged diplomatic relationships with one of our closest neighbors. His "tough guy" approach to dealing with Mexico threatens to cause a massive crash of both of our economies, and that's pretty serious business. Furthermore, his liberal use of executive orders and internal administrative demands have already put some pretty concerning wheels into motion relating to things such as women's healthcare, scientific research, public education, and a slew of constitutional rights. The president is not toothless, and handwaving criticism or concern over how he will use his power as just being a "sore loser," or something to that effect, is pretty ignorant.
[QUOTE=meek;51735931]500 is fine to prove any conclusions for a population the size of California's with a reasonable level of confidence.[/QUOTE] It is? Really? Depending on the method this might be scarily accurate... o_o
[QUOTE=cdr248;51735624]lmao nice sample size[/QUOTE] Hey I'll have you know I asked my cousin who lives near califorknia and also works in the white house and he wants to leave the union too so thats perfectly accurate
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51735898]He's the president, not a king. He's a god-awful human being, but he doesn't have the ability to do whatever he pleases, especially when members of "his" own party are in contest with him half the time.[/QUOTE] He'll decide the supreme court for the next decade or so. His advisor is a blatant fascist. I surrounds himself with people who are incompetent, malicious or greedy (or a combo) His press secretary is openly talking about "alternative facts" He's planning to waste billions on some silly ego project He doesn't have popular support He openly declared his intent to discriminate people on the basis of their religion He/his team is trying to suppress the media His disbelief in climate change will hurt you (and me) in the long run His education sec pick is stupid He talks about small government while he pushes big government invading your liberty His pick of labour sec would be better at home in the 1800s - that could affect your conditions and rights at work or your friends or your kids if the changes he makes stick His use of executive orders is hypocritical and sets an awful precedent. He is knowingly trying to stir up hatred toward immigrants using his state sponsored news (propaganda) focusing entirely on crimes committed by immigrants. His party isn't really against him, most of his agenda will be theirs, making it harder to get abortions (cutting funding to planned parenthood also means less money toward cancer detection and treatment) his lobbyists will take more power from the people and give it to a minority of super rich people. his stupidity will hurt your economy and potentially your national security, his ego and dick attitude will hurt your foreign relations, his divisiveness will cause unrest and violence at home. [URL="http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/962/640/658.png"]It's not ok[/URL] don't settle for a piece of shit and tell others to do likewise.
california may have one of the largest economies in the world on its own but that economy is very dependent on it being a part of the united states.
[QUOTE=cdr248;51735624]lmao nice sample size[/QUOTE] haha I can easily sample more than that at my university, pathetic
Without electoral reform the union isn't going to last much longer.
[QUOTE=Aredbomb;51736004]Without electoral reform the union isn't going to last much longer.[/QUOTE] Yea, I fear that too as current issue.
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