[QUOTE=Isotope;31858226]Ron Paul might have some stupid views, especially on things like separation of church and state. You however just seem like you're yet another lazy young person who loves the idea of the rest of the country having to pick up your slack. I find it worrying how many people agree with you too, yay for communism =/[/QUOTE]
Isotope, you just got very ignorant, very fast. You're identifying higher taxes and more social programs as "the government picking up the slack for lazy people"? That's not what that means at all, what it means is that the ones who need aid (the poor, elderly, etc.) get what they need to live, and the rich deal with a bit less money in their pockets.
As for that last statement, you pretty much lost all credibility in displaying that you have no idea what Communism is, and are disparaging towards an ideology you clearly don't understand.
[editline]21st August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;31866856]Seems like people either love his economic/foreign policy but hate his domestic policy, or vice versa; never both.[/QUOTE]
Then I'll be the first.
His "invisible hand of the free market will fix our problems" style of economic thought and "default all issues to state's rights" style of social policy are awful, in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31867148]
[editline]21st August 2011[/editline]
Then I'll be the first.
His "invisible hand of the free market will fix our problems" style of economic thought and "default all issues to state's rights" style of social policy are awful, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I meant in the sense that no one likes both his policies. Obviously there are those that hate all of his thoughts.
Who?
[editline]21st August 2011[/editline]
(Late joke about the thread title)
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;31867204]I meant in the sense that no one likes both his policies. Obviously there are those that hate all of his thoughts.[/QUOTE]
Ah, I see.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31867148]His "invisible hand of the free market will fix our problems" style of economic thought and "default all issues to state's rights" style of social policy are awful, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
To be fair you're also the type of person who believes nationalizing food and clothing industries is a good idea, so yeah.
Also, if you think the states shouldn't have a right to do anything there's always countries that weren't designed as ours was, you know,
[quote]According to the Tenth Amendment, the government of the United States has the power to regulate only matters delegated to it by the Constitution. Other powers are reserved to the states, or to the people[/quote]
[QUOTE=s0beit;31867543]To be fair you're also the type of person who believes nationalizing food and clothing industries is a good idea, so yeah.[/quote]
And I am indeed free to have that political stance.
[QUOTE=s0beit;31867543]Also, if you think the states shouldn't have a right to do anything there's always countries that weren't designed as ours was, you know,[/QUOTE]
I classify things like healthcare and welfare under the "general welfare" part of article 1 section 8 of the constitution.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31867148]Isotope, you just got very ignorant, very fast. You're identifying higher taxes and more social programs as "the government picking up the slack for lazy people"? That's not what that means at all, what it means is that the ones who need aid (the poor, elderly, etc.) get what they need to live, and the rich deal with a bit less money in their pockets.[/QUOTE]
The funny thing is I agree with both GeneralFredrik's post and your posts. People who need support definitely deserve help, I have no issues with that and it makes for a terrible society if you can't look after those in need. I however know entire droves of my peers who live off government handouts while they chill at uni 3 or so days a week for 4 or 5, sometimes more, years of their lives, some of them going on long overseas trips in their holidays. In this case it is pretty much entirely the government picking up the slack for lazy people. I also don't have so much of a problem with death taxes if indeed it were for the unbelievably wealthy, but it also never ends up that way.
Our highest tax bracket here is ludicrously low, if you earn enough to own your own house at some point you are probably going to be in the highest tax bracket available. My comment about communism was more that principles centered around redistributing wealth seemed to be the order of the day. It would seem from GeneralFredrik's post that the system in his country is probably set up decently. Around here the politicians just seem to be totally greedy and corrupt all round, and especially so on the left side of politics sadly. Basically I do not trust them at all with taxes.
I guess I am just biased living in Australia, the money here seems to get taken from you if you are a tiny bit above average in the wage department meanwhile the left side of government throws it around without a care in the world.
[QUOTE=Isotope;31870636]The funny thing is I agree with both GeneralFredrik's post and your posts. People who need support definitely deserve help, I have no issues with that and it makes for a terrible society if you can't look after those in need. I however know entire droves of my peers who live off government handouts while they chill at uni 3 or so days a week for 4 or 5, sometimes more, years of their lives, some of them going on long overseas trips in their holidays. In this case it is pretty much entirely the government picking up the slack for lazy people. I also don't have so much of a problem with death taxes if indeed it were for the unbelievably wealthy, but it also never ends up that way.[/quote]
And my mother makes claims of seeing illegal immigrants on welfare all the time, but that and claims of people abusing the system are irrelevant to me so long as there is one person in legitimate need of that aid.
[QUOTE=Isotope;31870636]Our highest tax bracket here is ludicrously low, if you earn enough to own your own house at some point you are probably going to be in the highest tax bracket available. My comment about communism was more that principles centered around redistributing wealth seemed to be the order of the day. It would seem from GeneralFredrik's post that the system in his country is probably set up decently. Around here the politicians just seem to be totally greedy and corrupt all round, and especially so on the left side of politics sadly. Basically I do not trust them at all with taxes.[/quote]
Australia's highest income tax rate is 45%, compare that to the US' 35%. And the claim that if you own a house you'll be in the highest bracket also seems fairly ridiculous, considering that the median income in Australia is nowhere near the highest bracket. From what I've seen of Australian politics, the Liberal Party there is not particularly left-leaning.
[QUOTE=Isotope;31870636]I guess I am just biased living in Australia, the money here seems to get taken from you if you are a tiny bit above average in the wage department meanwhile the left side of government throws it around without a care in the world.[/QUOTE]
Again, it's nothing compared to the carelessness with which we spend our federal dollars. Our military spending is billions of dollars too high.
[QUOTE=snuwoods;31823802]Desolategrunt believes that a candidate's party affiliation signifies their beliefs. How naive.[/QUOTE]
yeah that's actually pretty much how it works
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31870758]And my mother makes claims of seeing illegal immigrants on welfare all the time, but that and claims of people abusing the system are irrelevant to me so long as there is one person in legitimate need of that aid.
[/QUOTE]
I guess that is just a point of view thing, I have been exposed to more people who are probably undeserving than those who genuinely need it so my views are probably slightly warped by that.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31870758]
Australia's highest income tax rate is 45%, compare that to the US' 35%. And the claim that if you own a house you'll be in the highest bracket also seems fairly ridiculous, considering that the median income in Australia is nowhere near the highest bracket. From what I've seen of Australian politics, the Liberal Party there is not particularly left-leaning.
[/QUOTE]
On a median income here however if you buy a house it will be way out from the city center and you will spend most of your life paying off a tiny dwelling with current interest rates. Having said that, you are indeed correct that a good income for owning a house [i]is[/i] quite a bit below our top highest tax bracket. TBH it had been a while since I had checked our taxation, and it would seem inflation got the better of my memory.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31870758]And my mother makes claims of seeing illegal immigrants on welfare all the time, but that and claims of people abusing the system are irrelevant to me so long as there is one person in legitimate need of that aid.
Again, it's nothing compared to the carelessness with which we spend our federal dollars. Our military spending is billions of dollars too high.
[/QUOTE]
Seeing charts of our government debt go up when our socialist politicians got in, and back down when the conservatives got in, and then looking at the chart of your debt just made me sad. Looks like both sides of politics have just been burning through money for years over there, and it makes it easy to see why younger Americans often appear more left leaning. At least the left side of politics over there seem to spend it on useful things as opposed to wasting it on military spending and meddling in other countries.
[QUOTE=Hazard Fox;31827028]All I want is Obama out of office, plain and simple.[/QUOTE]
Thinking like a true conservative, even it it drives the country into the ground.
[QUOTE=Isotope;31871623]Seeing charts of our government debt go up when our socialist politicians got in, and back down when the conservatives got in[/QUOTE]
Liberals as Socialists? You are aware there is a difference between Socialism and the Centre-Left "Social Democracy" or "Democratic Socialism".
The only reason the other candidates get more attention is because they spew out so much retarded shit.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31872051]Liberals as Socialists? You are aware there is a difference between Socialism and the Centre-Left "Social Democracy" or "Democratic Socialism".[/QUOTE]
Yes I do realize the left here are not actually "socialists", it would be a bit difficult to be that here >.> I just meant the left side of politics, that is all.
[QUOTE=Isotope;31872343]Yes I do realize the left here are not actually "socialists", it would be a bit difficult to be that here >.> I just meant the left side of politics, that is all.[/QUOTE]
I would have thought that if you didn't call them "socialists". That's like me calling the Democrats socialist just because they're the more left-leaning party of the two.
The biggest issue with discussing political ideas is that certain philosophies seem to have this sort of connotation that disallow for real conversation. Comparing certain policies to socialism or capitalism might in some instances be valid, yet it is more common for people to make bad light of a policy through association. It's similar to making Hitler comparisons when talking about Bush's policies, they usually weren't relevant and were more intended to associate Bush with a very negative figure. The comparisons can be completely valid, you could say "Hitler had his forces invade an foreign country and Bush did as well", and the intention of that sentence couldn't be any more obvious. Most people seem to find true socialism to be negative, usually because they believe it only works in theory and because it has some bad historical connections. I think it is more productive to discuss ideas about the policy, and only make appropriate comparisons.
[QUOTE=Pepin;31872600]Most people seem to find true socialism to be negative, usually because they believe it only works in theory and because it has some bad historical connections. I think it is more productive to discuss ideas about the policy, and only make appropriate comparisons.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I am not one of those people who see true Socialism as negative, but it's important to look at all ideas fairly.
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